Quality of Uniform
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Tennessee - Smoky Mountains
Age: 55
Posts: 1,602
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
I hate to sound cynical, but personal leather jackets and "improved" plastic name badges with more graphics? Jesus wept.
How about "take whatever the Army & RM have for greens, the RN have for blue working dress, and make our own ceremonial". The Army and RN have their working dress engineered for effectiveness, not designed for appearance.
How about "take whatever the Army & RM have for greens, the RN have for blue working dress, and make our own ceremonial". The Army and RN have their working dress engineered for effectiveness, not designed for appearance.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: in my combat underpants
Age: 53
Posts: 1,065
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It does strike me that if we have put you in a position of trust within this area then you might be a little less terse and slightly more concerned that people like myself (aircrew/operational) feel this way and don't rush out with open arms to embrace the reporting system you obviously think so highly of
Yes, Him
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: West Sussex, UK
Posts: 2,689
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the constant chopping and changing of the jumper pattern has to be costing us
Voila! Money saved on magazine is available for No 2 Kecks.
Well, it worked last time...
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: london
Posts: 285
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Worlds best dressed soldier
Although brit. uniforms have improved in recent years IMO they have
never matched those of US WW2 pattern when the ordinary GI Joe
uniform could be smarter and of superior quality and cut compared to
that of a British officer.
From these posts it seems that penny pinching in the MoD hasnt changed.
never matched those of US WW2 pattern when the ordinary GI Joe
uniform could be smarter and of superior quality and cut compared to
that of a British officer.
From these posts it seems that penny pinching in the MoD hasnt changed.
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: South
Posts: 160
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've been whinged at, lied to, insulted, abused and lambasted by the the very best the RAF has to offer
Don't whinge about something you know nothing of
Now be a good lad and go and procure some new uniforms that I can trash/burn/alter as I see fit.
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: bristol
Age: 56
Posts: 1,051
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As a non RAF type, I do find the way the RAF go about choosing their uniform as a little odd, but then do understand that the RAF (as a service/force?) must be hard to choose for.
If we get past the fact that the RAF seem to put folks in charge of procuring their uniforms who are possibly inept, and out of touch (or simply not up to the job),
it does help in understanding the problems.
So, am I to understand that the RAF choose a uniform, sometimes based on style,
and not always using guidelines from the the other services, and then once these uniforms are in issue, they ask the folks who wear them to comment on them, and point out any flaws or good points (which is the system used in the comercial world, but not in the same order
).
IMHO the RAF has things tougher than the other services as they are not sure
what they are! The army are clearly a force, as are the Royal Navy. The F in RAF stands for force, but some personnel seem to think they are in a service, and I feel this is wear some issues arise. The army wear boots..What do the RAF wear?
(and yes this can be a big issue with the other services, making them see the RAF as office boys, living in slipper city (as do some RAF folks on det see those who aren't, or who never go anywhere))
The RAF want the new multi cam, as they should. They also want it for aircrew
as they should, as it is good for security of personnel, BUT they also don't want to wear combats, as it is not the RAF way, and looks scruffy (obviously, I am picking random views and not talking of everyone here).
Some in the RAF don't like the idea of wearing beret's, but think peaked caps
look silly on det.
Some in the RAF don't want to wear any TRF's or 'army type' patches on their uniforms, yet do not want to be seen as army (when wearing army combats), and
yet also want some of the old unit patches back (while others don't)
The other services just wear what they are issued, or buy their own kit, while the RAF want to be special, and get everything they ask for ( I personally see two distinct groups here..One that will wear anything, and another group that wants something just how they like it...And both have posted in this thread).
IMHO the 'RAF' that is hard at work on operations are worried about bullets and mortar rounds, not seeing their mates get hurt, and just doing there job in some very tough circumstances (you get a huge
from me) are not at all bothered about how well their trousers hold a crease, or whether their jumpers bobble!
But, maybe there is another 'RAF' where these things do matter, and so do feedback forms and committees....as well as any other form of mundane petty nonsense, just to justify an existence!
As I said above, I am not from an RAF background, and so may see the issue differently to those within the RAF. I also see some parallels to the shiny RAF in the commercial world too. I was once teaching a course, and as the temperature was rising the students would need to walk through melted snow (oddly enough called snow melt) rather than thick snow. I tried to telephone the office staff to see if they had any extra ropes (as only they could supply any equipment..sound familiar), and they had gone home, as the office heating was broken and at only 16 degrees C it was too cold for them to work!
If we get past the fact that the RAF seem to put folks in charge of procuring their uniforms who are possibly inept, and out of touch (or simply not up to the job),
it does help in understanding the problems.
So, am I to understand that the RAF choose a uniform, sometimes based on style,
and not always using guidelines from the the other services, and then once these uniforms are in issue, they ask the folks who wear them to comment on them, and point out any flaws or good points (which is the system used in the comercial world, but not in the same order
).IMHO the RAF has things tougher than the other services as they are not sure
what they are! The army are clearly a force, as are the Royal Navy. The F in RAF stands for force, but some personnel seem to think they are in a service, and I feel this is wear some issues arise. The army wear boots..What do the RAF wear?
(and yes this can be a big issue with the other services, making them see the RAF as office boys, living in slipper city (as do some RAF folks on det see those who aren't, or who never go anywhere))
The RAF want the new multi cam, as they should. They also want it for aircrew
as they should, as it is good for security of personnel, BUT they also don't want to wear combats, as it is not the RAF way, and looks scruffy (obviously, I am picking random views and not talking of everyone here).
Some in the RAF don't like the idea of wearing beret's, but think peaked caps
look silly on det.
Some in the RAF don't want to wear any TRF's or 'army type' patches on their uniforms, yet do not want to be seen as army (when wearing army combats), and
yet also want some of the old unit patches back (while others don't)
The other services just wear what they are issued, or buy their own kit, while the RAF want to be special, and get everything they ask for ( I personally see two distinct groups here..One that will wear anything, and another group that wants something just how they like it...And both have posted in this thread).
IMHO the 'RAF' that is hard at work on operations are worried about bullets and mortar rounds, not seeing their mates get hurt, and just doing there job in some very tough circumstances (you get a huge
from me) are not at all bothered about how well their trousers hold a crease, or whether their jumpers bobble!But, maybe there is another 'RAF' where these things do matter, and so do feedback forms and committees....as well as any other form of mundane petty nonsense, just to justify an existence!
As I said above, I am not from an RAF background, and so may see the issue differently to those within the RAF. I also see some parallels to the shiny RAF in the commercial world too. I was once teaching a course, and as the temperature was rising the students would need to walk through melted snow (oddly enough called snow melt
) rather than thick snow. I tried to telephone the office staff to see if they had any extra ropes (as only they could supply any equipment..sound familiar), and they had gone home, as the office heating was broken and at only 16 degrees C it was too cold for them to work!
Seem to remember back in the 60s when a new No. 1, known as the T63 was introduced. The following was rumoured to have appeared in Wittering SROs.
"Due to a shortage of material, the issue of various items of the T63 will be delayed. WRAF skirts will be held up until officers without trousers have been satisfied."
"Due to a shortage of material, the issue of various items of the T63 will be delayed. WRAF skirts will be held up until officers without trousers have been satisfied."
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Why oh why would I wanna be anywhere else?
Posts: 1,305
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
The bloody rot set in when officers could get cheap clothing items from Supply Sqn instead of doing the decent thing and getting some good stuff from the military tailors.
You wanted cheap. You got cheap. Live with it.
You wanted cheap. You got cheap. Live with it.
I have filled out a feedback form in the past, pointing out safety and practicality issues I had with flying safety kit. I pointed out the problems, and even offered suggested alternatives, along with my details and an offer to discuss said issues in person.
I never heard any reply, and I have seen no change. Whilst I'm sure the system might work for some, my experiences mean that I am unlikely to try again.
I never heard any reply, and I have seen no change. Whilst I'm sure the system might work for some, my experiences mean that I am unlikely to try again.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London, New York, Paris, Moscow.
Posts: 3,632
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re post #19
9. Study into providing better outerwear and fatigues for those working outside in cold, wet or windy environments.
Or does it have to made down in quality specially for the forces in far off sweatshops??
I'm not too sure the chappie in Clothing Stores was joking when he said that they were made in China.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: in my combat underpants
Age: 53
Posts: 1,065
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
safety and practicality issues I had with flying safety kit. I pointed out the problems, and even offered suggested alternatives
Yup, flying kit is different as it is Aircrew Equipment Assembly (AEA) and part of the aircraft's Release to Service - hence C-17, and previously F4J, Jocks wore USAF Flying Suits.
However, what No 14 dress constitutes (ie. aircrew dress) is part of the dress committee's business.
Make sense?
However, what No 14 dress constitutes (ie. aircrew dress) is part of the dress committee's business.
Make sense?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Back to the fold in the map
Posts: 382
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
1 Post
Uniform
OK - as I originated the thread I feel that I must reply to Barnstormer. My observations were simply that, - a comment on how some people seem to get "cost" and "value" mixed up. I was quite happy with the kit I got when I went to "sandy places". What I am unhappy with is the fact that we are now expected to accept stuff that, had it been sold in civvy street, I would have returned with comments about unmerchantable quality; here in the outpost of civilisation I have to take whatever is provided so I'm afraid it's not simply a case of popping into town to see Mr Moss Bros - sorry if I have offended anyone's sensibilities with what set out to be a relatively serious thread.
CB
CB
Gentleman Aviator
Yeah, I guess it's non-operational, non-flying uniform we're talking about.
I could never understand that (albeit an comfortably proportioned officer). I could get M&S slacks to fit beautifully off the peg, but Auntie Betty's blues (usually) needed tweaking by the Stn tailor..........
I could never understand that (albeit an comfortably proportioned officer). I could get M&S slacks to fit beautifully off the peg, but Auntie Betty's blues (usually) needed tweaking by the Stn tailor..........
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: England
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's not life and death but it's frustrating!
The difference in quality and suitability of what we got in GW1 / TELIC 1 vs what we got in HERRICK 1 and since was substantial and I have no complaints about any of my op deployment kit.
But the standard of our uniforms is frustrating, as is the amount of time and effort wasted to get it. A female colleague went to get some new uniform (frustration starts - Clothing Stores is open 3.5 hrs a day). Not being obese or a midget none of the long-sleeve blouses remotely fitted her arms without being so vast around the waist they were too big for our pregnant secretary! She now cannot wear a long-sleeve shirt without a jumper. People with long arms are all obese, it turns out. Who knew? Then skirts - which no longer come hemmed. She now has to make an appointment with the stn tailor (6 weeks wait) to have them hemmed (costs again). Yes, she's a chick clearly she should be able to hem them herself, but the argument that girls are different heights so the contractors can't hem them just doesn't stand up. I notice men are different heights, too, but trousers come quite successfully in different lengths. Finally, shoes. Having worn 5s for 10 years, she ordered same. They arrived so big they're unwearable. So she orders a 4. Too small. No quality control, £30 a pair, last 6 months if you're lucky.
Yes, we've got more important things to worry about. Yes, it's a minor irritance. But has anyone else noticed how all the minor irritants add up? What it amounts to is 4 separate visits to Clothing Stores (involving lots of waiting because there's a long queue because it's never open) and still no wearable uniform for the individual. So far, it has cost about one working day in lost activity for someone we pay over £100 a day to. How can that be ok?
Hinecap. If we are are so ignorant that we know nothing about your system, I would say the fault lies with you and the failure to educate us about why we are wrong and the system isn't ****e. And yes, I deal with clothing contract managers at DE&S fairly regularly (not about blues). And no, they don't change anything when I complain or even listen when I articulate our requirements prior to contract tender.
Anyone else keep your old jumpers just knowing they were bound to bring them back again? Every 3-5 years, like clockwork.
But the standard of our uniforms is frustrating, as is the amount of time and effort wasted to get it. A female colleague went to get some new uniform (frustration starts - Clothing Stores is open 3.5 hrs a day). Not being obese or a midget none of the long-sleeve blouses remotely fitted her arms without being so vast around the waist they were too big for our pregnant secretary! She now cannot wear a long-sleeve shirt without a jumper. People with long arms are all obese, it turns out. Who knew? Then skirts - which no longer come hemmed. She now has to make an appointment with the stn tailor (6 weeks wait) to have them hemmed (costs again). Yes, she's a chick clearly she should be able to hem them herself, but the argument that girls are different heights so the contractors can't hem them just doesn't stand up. I notice men are different heights, too, but trousers come quite successfully in different lengths. Finally, shoes. Having worn 5s for 10 years, she ordered same. They arrived so big they're unwearable. So she orders a 4. Too small. No quality control, £30 a pair, last 6 months if you're lucky.
Yes, we've got more important things to worry about. Yes, it's a minor irritance. But has anyone else noticed how all the minor irritants add up? What it amounts to is 4 separate visits to Clothing Stores (involving lots of waiting because there's a long queue because it's never open) and still no wearable uniform for the individual. So far, it has cost about one working day in lost activity for someone we pay over £100 a day to. How can that be ok?
Hinecap. If we are are so ignorant that we know nothing about your system, I would say the fault lies with you and the failure to educate us about why we are wrong and the system isn't ****e. And yes, I deal with clothing contract managers at DE&S fairly regularly (not about blues). And no, they don't change anything when I complain or even listen when I articulate our requirements prior to contract tender.
Anyone else keep your old jumpers just knowing they were bound to bring them back again? Every 3-5 years, like clockwork.