LM F35B Video
Suspicion breeds confidence
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LM F35B Video
The future gets nearer....
Interesting vid. Comments welcome.
YouTube - LockheedMartinVideos's Channel
Interesting vid. Comments welcome.
YouTube - LockheedMartinVideos's Channel
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Navaleye,
Well, at least one of Mr. B's suggestions is misleading: he implies - implying very careful scripting - that Dave-B carries everything that the other variants can, performs as they do, and adds STOVL as well. Except that it isn't as capable as the other variants, with reduced payload / range and (IIRC) a limited choice of weapons because the internal bays are smaller.
But it looks cool hovering.....
My problem with Dave-B for the US or the UK is that it is more expensive and less capable than Dave-C, so it is hard to understand why you would want to pay more for less, unless you really thought that you needed stealth vs Gen 4++ air threat and late double-digit SAM threat and wouldn't send a CVN. Forgive me, the CONOPS are nonsensical. And with the programme in as much financial trouble as it is, it is surely sensible to reduce risk and cost by binning the more expensive and most complex variant.
Bottom line for me is that a MAGTAF on its own is unlikely to get itself into a situation where it needs a 5th gen aircraft and a CVN isn't going to be made available.
For the RN, buying the -B is a great way to blunt the power projection potential of the CVFs (if they aren't cancelled). If CVF is worth doing (see 120 pages here: http://www.pprune.org/military-aircr...rrier-120.html) then it is surely worth doing properly, with cats, traps, and fixed wing AEW, COD and the attendant training burden. If it's not worth doing properly, let's not bother.
S41
Well, at least one of Mr. B's suggestions is misleading: he implies - implying very careful scripting - that Dave-B carries everything that the other variants can, performs as they do, and adds STOVL as well. Except that it isn't as capable as the other variants, with reduced payload / range and (IIRC) a limited choice of weapons because the internal bays are smaller.
But it looks cool hovering.....
My problem with Dave-B for the US or the UK is that it is more expensive and less capable than Dave-C, so it is hard to understand why you would want to pay more for less, unless you really thought that you needed stealth vs Gen 4++ air threat and late double-digit SAM threat and wouldn't send a CVN. Forgive me, the CONOPS are nonsensical. And with the programme in as much financial trouble as it is, it is surely sensible to reduce risk and cost by binning the more expensive and most complex variant.
Bottom line for me is that a MAGTAF on its own is unlikely to get itself into a situation where it needs a 5th gen aircraft and a CVN isn't going to be made available.
For the RN, buying the -B is a great way to blunt the power projection potential of the CVFs (if they aren't cancelled). If CVF is worth doing (see 120 pages here: http://www.pprune.org/military-aircr...rrier-120.html) then it is surely worth doing properly, with cats, traps, and fixed wing AEW, COD and the attendant training burden. If it's not worth doing properly, let's not bother.
S41
Do a Hover - it avoids G
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Navaleye
Somebody else asked for comments on this vid a week ago
For wot it is worth here are mine repeated
I would agree every word that John said about the STOVL handling of the Harrier and the F-35B
The software that allows the simple use of the stick to go up or down regardless of airspeed is surely the holy grail of aviation – on the approach it is as if you are flying an aircraft had has no stall speed.
This flight control system was developed in the UK using the VAAC Harrier research aircraft at Bedford and later Boscombe Down and purchased by the Joint Programme Office of the JSF for the B version.
JF
Somebody else asked for comments on this vid a week ago
For wot it is worth here are mine repeated
I would agree every word that John said about the STOVL handling of the Harrier and the F-35B
The software that allows the simple use of the stick to go up or down regardless of airspeed is surely the holy grail of aviation – on the approach it is as if you are flying an aircraft had has no stall speed.
This flight control system was developed in the UK using the VAAC Harrier research aircraft at Bedford and later Boscombe Down and purchased by the Joint Programme Office of the JSF for the B version.
JF
Suspicion breeds confidence
Thread Starter
S41 and JF
Thanks for your comments and apologies for reposting. I was always dubious about Dave-B, but having seen what the production aircraft can do and even knowing its alleged range limitations, its still a quantum leap (if you pardon the pun) from where we are today. In an ideal world, I would prefer the CV variant, but its not practical. Given all the compromises we are going to have to make over the next few years it is the way to go. The USMC is wedded to this beast. Since most of what we do mirrors USMC capability, we should be more than happy with it. The Navy certainly is. 36 of them off 4 acres of sovereign mobile territory buys us an awful lot of clout. Interestingly, the Navy is projecting that they could have both CVF available for 60% of the time. If we are going to introduce fresh thinking and new ideas, this is the place to start. Dinosaurs beware.
Thanks for your comments and apologies for reposting. I was always dubious about Dave-B, but having seen what the production aircraft can do and even knowing its alleged range limitations, its still a quantum leap (if you pardon the pun) from where we are today. In an ideal world, I would prefer the CV variant, but its not practical. Given all the compromises we are going to have to make over the next few years it is the way to go. The USMC is wedded to this beast. Since most of what we do mirrors USMC capability, we should be more than happy with it. The Navy certainly is. 36 of them off 4 acres of sovereign mobile territory buys us an awful lot of clout. Interestingly, the Navy is projecting that they could have both CVF available for 60% of the time. If we are going to introduce fresh thinking and new ideas, this is the place to start. Dinosaurs beware.
The Future...............
I've heard from what I believe to be good source that it likely 'we' can afford the carriers, but, alas, very few JSF. We are going to be left with huge Helicopter Vessels.
Any truth in this?
TN.
Any truth in this?
TN.
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The UK has got to keep in F-35. We get so much for so small (relative to the costs of development) an investment.
Pity JB doesn't mention 'Unified'........& its UK roots!
Oh well Fort Worth will be the home of STOVL now...
Pity JB doesn't mention 'Unified'........& its UK roots!
Oh well Fort Worth will be the home of STOVL now...
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TartanTonight
Speaking at RUSI today, the current / outgoing Secretary of State for Defence (aka "Comrade Bob") inelegantly dodged exactly this question when an ex-WAFU Admiral asked if 2 x CVF = 2 x CAG?
Quoth Bob: Err, err, no.
Only a commitment to "a two fighter type force". Which makes you wonder if the Harriers are for an early chop - which must be on the cards if SDR bins CVF (and possibly even if they survive, as slowing their build yet again is presumably possible even though it will be rubbish VfM).
Interestingly, not only was Malcolm Rifkind was much more impressive at RUSI last week than the current incumbent, he was rather better than Liam Fox has been recently. Makes you wonder whether he'd fancy another crack at the job - to those around at the time, what was he like first time out?
S41
Speaking at RUSI today, the current / outgoing Secretary of State for Defence (aka "Comrade Bob") inelegantly dodged exactly this question when an ex-WAFU Admiral asked if 2 x CVF = 2 x CAG?
Quoth Bob: Err, err, no.
Only a commitment to "a two fighter type force". Which makes you wonder if the Harriers are for an early chop - which must be on the cards if SDR bins CVF (and possibly even if they survive, as slowing their build yet again is presumably possible even though it will be rubbish VfM).
Interestingly, not only was Malcolm Rifkind was much more impressive at RUSI last week than the current incumbent, he was rather better than Liam Fox has been recently. Makes you wonder whether he'd fancy another crack at the job - to those around at the time, what was he like first time out?
S41
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I don't think it is any secret that CVF will be run in the exact way the current CVS are. Only one will be the designated strike carrier while the other will either be covering Ocean as a very expensive LPH or in refit / training. Therefore only 1 CAG was ever planned. I think things are so bad some people are worried if even 1 could be half filled. How long has it been since more than six harriers visited a CVS?
