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Red Arrows collision (Merged)

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Red Arrows collision (Merged)

Old 23rd Mar 2010, 15:16
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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A spokesman is quoted: ""We can confirm that an incident has occurred "

Does the fact that it is termed an "incident" rather than an accident suggest they are keeping open the possibility that it was deliberate? Otherwise, why not just say an accident.
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Old 23rd Mar 2010, 15:18
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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252 is not shown as a current team aircraft so it may be an old photo.
RAF Red Arrows - The Hawk Aircraft
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Old 23rd Mar 2010, 15:22
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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There is a generalised train of thought to get away from the term "Accident".
In Police circles, the definition RTA (Road Traffic Accident) has now been moved to RTC (Road Traffic Collision).

No-one for one minute will be suggesting that this was a deliberate act. These guys are the cream of the crop of RAF pilots, but due to the nature of their performance, there is always the chance of an incident, particularly in training where new maneouvres are being undertaken and new Reds are being brought on board.

Let's wish the injured pilot a speedy recovery, and hopefully with it being so early in the season, they'll be able to bring in a replacement Red without too much disruption. I assume they'll have a "reserve" pilot for incidents such as this? Will they just go on practising using the Red 10 aircraft now? Can they shuffle a new Hawk from training duties @ Valley or somewhere else as a replacement aircraft?
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Old 23rd Mar 2010, 15:22
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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finfly1 you are just being pedantic and nit picking. Why do you feel the need to do it?
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Old 23rd Mar 2010, 15:28
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Hawk T.1A XX252 17 Oct 98 RAF Cranwell, Landed short after practice. Ejected OK.

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Old 23rd Mar 2010, 15:29
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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All accidents are incidents - it's just that all incidents aren't accidents. A pic of the one that lost.

Red_Arrows_Hawk_Crash.jpg (image)
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Old 23rd Mar 2010, 15:30
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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finfly1 - would the use of the word "incident" refer to the fact that they were intentionally undertaking dangerous display flying where a collision could occur (and in this case did)?

These guys are the best in the world. So lets all just hope they are both are OK.
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Old 23rd Mar 2010, 15:33
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Describing such events as a 'collision' or 'incident' are an avoidance of initial blame (until proven otherwise). Stops the "have you had an accident?" types getting excited about a claim and commission.
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Old 23rd Mar 2010, 15:33
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Troddenmasses - I think that's an old photo. It has an old livery.
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Old 23rd Mar 2010, 15:37
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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That pic was taken in 1998
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Old 23rd Mar 2010, 15:37
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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This is the Reds 2010 Team...

RED 1 - Sqn Ldr Ben Murphy (from Loughborough)
RED 2 - Flt Lt Ben Plank (Worcestershire)
RED 3 - Flt Lt Kirsty Moore (Lincolnshire)
RED 4 - Flt Lt Dave Davies (Colwyn Bay, Wales)
RED 5 - Flt Lt Zane Sennett (Lincolnshire)
RED 6 - Flt Lt Mike Ling (Kent)
RED 7 - Flt Lt David Montenegro (Kent)
RED 8 - Sqn Ldr Graham Duff (Cumbria)
RED 9 - Flt Lt Simon Rea (New Zealand)
RED 10 (and Road Manager) - Sqn Ldr Graeme Bagnall (Cumbria)

Let's hope it's not Red 3 that crashed or else it'll give the anti-female aviator lobby ammunition.
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Old 23rd Mar 2010, 15:39
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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ok is that pic the one circulating and being passed off as the greek crash? Do they not realise that an aircraft that crashed on land and one ejected and crashed into sea are too different things?
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Old 23rd Mar 2010, 15:52
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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The RAF report on the '98 crash of 252 has the aircraft destroyed by the impact
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Old 23rd Mar 2010, 15:53
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Having spent a portion of my miss spent youth performing for the "ice cream lickers" I still have the impresion that this is just what a portion of the crowd come to see, I made a habit of doning civies and wandering amoungst them and engageing in conversation, most interesting to say the least, human nature I gues.
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Old 23rd Mar 2010, 15:57
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Reuters now reporting "broken legs", according to a Greek official, FWIW:

"The pilot who ejected has broken his legs. He is being transferred to an Athens hospital," said the official.
Two Red Arrows jets collide over Crete | World | Reuters
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Old 23rd Mar 2010, 16:00
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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For what it's worth, troddenmasses is right. Anything non-standard can be described as an "incident".

An "accident" (as defined in UK Air Law) is, if memory serves, an incident in which anyone is injured, or the aircraft is substantially damaged.

Media definitions, however, are presumably the product of their fertile imaginations...
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Old 23rd Mar 2010, 16:11
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Best wishes to them both for a speedy recovery; it always stops your heart hearing news like this.
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Old 23rd Mar 2010, 16:37
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Let's hope it's not Red 3 that crashed or else it'll give the anti-female aviator lobby ammunition
A local interviewed on R5L seemed to give a coherent account... and from that I would suggest it involved 2 "more experienced" members of the team, possibly proceeding in opposite directions

NoD
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Old 23rd Mar 2010, 16:48
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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"synchro pair" from BBC reporter located at Scampton
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Old 23rd Mar 2010, 16:49
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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IIRC the synchro pair are Reds 6 & 7.
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