Manning - Are we shooting ourselves in the foot?
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Manning - Are we shooting ourselves in the foot?
How can we scream that we are overstretched and undermanned if we can send more servicepersons to the RAF Ski Championships for 2 weeks than we have posts in HERRICK..................don't get me wrong it should never be something that we lose and its great down time but we need to be careful that we dont shoot ourselves in the foot.
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SLC, mixed message in your post there.
Those at home can't do the sack cloth and ashes bit when the others are up to their necks in muck and bullets. What have they go to look forward to when they come home? Work hard; play hard.
IIRC, during the Falklands we still managed to maintain a full ceremonial in HorseGuards. In GW1 build-up the CinC stood UK based troops down for 3 weeks over Christmas.
It sort of sends a message. After all Germany didn't mobilise until 1943.
Those at home can't do the sack cloth and ashes bit when the others are up to their necks in muck and bullets. What have they go to look forward to when they come home? Work hard; play hard.
IIRC, during the Falklands we still managed to maintain a full ceremonial in HorseGuards. In GW1 build-up the CinC stood UK based troops down for 3 weeks over Christmas.
It sort of sends a message. After all Germany didn't mobilise until 1943.
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While I've often rolled my eyes at the PTI parallel air force of carefree expeds and unlimited AT budgets, I've also come to the conclusion that cutting our noses off to spite our face is a fruitless exercise in self-flagellation that will go un-noticed by those to whom our austerity is intended to impress.
The foot-shooting started about 8 or 9 years ago when we voluntarily and uncomplainingly 'made do', while our savvier competitors for funding bleated as every cut was muted. Our obedient leaders have sleepwalked towards future spending cuts, taking us to a skeletal state which all along banked on the situation getting better. But the gamble has been lost - the situation has got worse - but unlike other departments we start from a position of threadbare which is, unfortunately, perceived as level pegging for cuts.
The foot-shooting started about 8 or 9 years ago when we voluntarily and uncomplainingly 'made do', while our savvier competitors for funding bleated as every cut was muted. Our obedient leaders have sleepwalked towards future spending cuts, taking us to a skeletal state which all along banked on the situation getting better. But the gamble has been lost - the situation has got worse - but unlike other departments we start from a position of threadbare which is, unfortunately, perceived as level pegging for cuts.
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SaddamsLoveChild
Have you ever thought about working for the Sun or News of the World? That is the kind of headline they love..........twisted, distorted and not quite true but it grabs the reader’s attention
How can we scream that we are overstretched and undermanned if we can send more servicepersons to the RAF Ski Championships for 2 weeks than we have posts in HERRICK.....
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Conversely, maybe it should make the thousands of RAF folk who have never stepped into harms way, and probably never will, ponder just for a mo or two 
20 years and I have always been at the end where it matters the most and I have never been able to be released to do nice things yet for 20 years ive paid into a sports fund for officers to have fun. Yet the same people dictate to me I am not in a position to have time off.
End of the day who cares... nobody. no point moaning just get on with it and take what you can
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Don't worry - it will all change after the election and subsequent SDR.
...but I fear it will be for the worse.
I fear that light blue will take a very severe kicking and that the constant RAF PR send of most officers I have met in recent years will have been fruitless. It concerns me that AT activities will be curtailed by lack of resources.
g
...but I fear it will be for the worse.
I fear that light blue will take a very severe kicking and that the constant RAF PR send of most officers I have met in recent years will have been fruitless. It concerns me that AT activities will be curtailed by lack of resources.
g
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Conversely, maybe it should make the thousands of RAF folk who have never stepped into harms way, and probably never will, ponder just for a mo or two
The Ski Champs are still one of the good things we have, please don't attack them.
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housands that are never allowed to go on AT
Don't think "Time off for AT, Think time for AT"
[QUOTE]There is no such thing as "Not allowed to go". It is your right. AT is not a jolly or time off. AT is your job. It is your duty./QUOTE]
LMAO pull the other one it's got bells on. Unless you are already sport billy, and play something at station/command/force level with a senior officer who can pull strings then you have no chance.
Used to work with a couple of sporty types, useless at their job but good at running or whatever.
Typical scenario, already the maximum allowed on leave so they cannot have another weekend off to represent X,Y or Z. About an hour later the boss will receive a phonecall inviting him to release sport billy, under threat of something nasty. Or sport billy is invited by senior bod to go on AT and we get the same scenario as above.
If your face fits AT is available.
LMAO pull the other one it's got bells on. Unless you are already sport billy, and play something at station/command/force level with a senior officer who can pull strings then you have no chance.
Used to work with a couple of sporty types, useless at their job but good at running or whatever.
Typical scenario, already the maximum allowed on leave so they cannot have another weekend off to represent X,Y or Z. About an hour later the boss will receive a phonecall inviting him to release sport billy, under threat of something nasty. Or sport billy is invited by senior bod to go on AT and we get the same scenario as above.
If your face fits AT is available.
How is downhill skiing considered "AT"? It is no more "adventurous" than going on one of those duffers' paragliders they tow behind boats in the Med, or one of those naff wheeled "trains" they drive up and down the beachfront.
Ski-touring, now that is a different matter. You actually learn skills that have some military relevance too.
Ski-touring, now that is a different matter. You actually learn skills that have some military relevance too.
Maybe we should be concentrating less on Ski touring and more on downhill after our less than impressive olympic showing. I personally find the scrapping of 'downhill' in the AT sense, to be a bad thing, using ski-touring as a first taster of skiing has the potential to put people off the sport, however, as I've never had the time off to do it I can't realy comment.
I did have the time off to go bobsleighing, which I can recommend to anyone, however perhapse you'd like to see that withdrawn as well as how often do we goto war in two man bobs?
I did have the time off to go bobsleighing, which I can recommend to anyone, however perhapse you'd like to see that withdrawn as well as how often do we goto war in two man bobs?
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Used to work with a couple of sporty types, useless at their job but good at running or whatever.
Typical scenario, already the maximum allowed on leave so they cannot have another weekend off to represent X,Y or Z. About an hour later the boss will receive a phonecall inviting him to release sport billy, under threat of something nasty. Or sport billy is invited by senior bod to go on AT and we get the same scenario as above.
Typical scenario, already the maximum allowed on leave so they cannot have another weekend off to represent X,Y or Z. About an hour later the boss will receive a phonecall inviting him to release sport billy, under threat of something nasty. Or sport billy is invited by senior bod to go on AT and we get the same scenario as above.
they cannot have another weekend off
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so you don't see AT as beneficial then?
I spent almost all of my free time surfing, yacht racing ans snowboarding. Oh my hobbies are militarily irrelevant.... I'd better stop.
The purpose of AT is to encourage leadership and team building..
As a liney mech tech ****** my face certainly never fitted so your argument does not hold water as I still went on AT.
In my experience it is those who do things other than getting pissed and moaning who get off their arse to do these things get to do them.
Here's a tip - read sro's regularly and as soon as you find something you want to do put in a polite request - a bit of give and take etc.
maybe if you negotiated a week of guard as a bribe etc or volunteer for something crap beforehand you would be more ameniable to the man who says no/yes/maybe.
If you are viewed as an all round airman who tries to put up with the bollocks and gives a **** generally, doesn't have people ringing up saying he's missed another appointment or fitness test etc then you will probably be allowed to go - workload willing.
If you get refused then politely enquire why, keep a note and when you ask next time remind the man you have already missed one -
one exped a year, maybe two acceptable. six is taking the piss unless you are me!
I spent almost all of my free time surfing, yacht racing ans snowboarding. Oh my hobbies are militarily irrelevant.... I'd better stop.
The purpose of AT is to encourage leadership and team building..
As a liney mech tech ****** my face certainly never fitted so your argument does not hold water as I still went on AT.
In my experience it is those who do things other than getting pissed and moaning who get off their arse to do these things get to do them.
Here's a tip - read sro's regularly and as soon as you find something you want to do put in a polite request - a bit of give and take etc.
maybe if you negotiated a week of guard as a bribe etc or volunteer for something crap beforehand you would be more ameniable to the man who says no/yes/maybe.
If you are viewed as an all round airman who tries to put up with the bollocks and gives a **** generally, doesn't have people ringing up saying he's missed another appointment or fitness test etc then you will probably be allowed to go - workload willing.
If you get refused then politely enquire why, keep a note and when you ask next time remind the man you have already missed one -
one exped a year, maybe two acceptable. six is taking the piss unless you are me!
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Those who get most from AT are (in my experience) those new to it or less experienced. I got qualified early on and could lead my own expeds (which were always put together, under my guidance, by developing Airmen and women).
Those who organized it learned a lot and proved a lot to write up about, those who participated got huge benefit from the experiences and those who didn't wanted to come on the next one. Over the years I have had the pleasure of seeing a few of these individuals and most all (in a higher rank as well) commented on the positive impact of AT.
Those 'leaders' of men and women who decry AT are an embarrassment and aren't ensuring one of the few fun beneficial development opportunities is made available to their charges.
Mind you - I'm not saying that downhill skiing is AT - thats sport. Sport is good tho. Why not use the collective purchasing power to have everyone skiing at the same time, so making it fairly cheap?
Those who organized it learned a lot and proved a lot to write up about, those who participated got huge benefit from the experiences and those who didn't wanted to come on the next one. Over the years I have had the pleasure of seeing a few of these individuals and most all (in a higher rank as well) commented on the positive impact of AT.
Those 'leaders' of men and women who decry AT are an embarrassment and aren't ensuring one of the few fun beneficial development opportunities is made available to their charges.
Mind you - I'm not saying that downhill skiing is AT - thats sport. Sport is good tho. Why not use the collective purchasing power to have everyone skiing at the same time, so making it fairly cheap?
Last edited by Mr C Hinecap; 6th Mar 2010 at 08:57.
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vernon99 said
Nothing new - in the early 1970s the "RAF News" contained a letter from a disgruntled chap at RAF St Athan complaining about a JnrTech who played sport at command level, the JnrTech was away 50% of the time and his mates were fed up of carrying his work load. This triggered a series of similar letters from folk all over the RAF until the editor wrote "This subject is now closed".
Used to work with a couple of sporty types, useless at their job but good at running or whatever.
Typical scenario, already the maximum allowed on leave so they cannot have another weekend off to represent X,Y or Z. About an hour later the boss will receive a phonecall inviting him to release sport billy, under threat of something nasty. Or sport billy is invited by senior bod to go on AT and we get the same scenario as above.
If your face fits AT is available.
Typical scenario, already the maximum allowed on leave so they cannot have another weekend off to represent X,Y or Z. About an hour later the boss will receive a phonecall inviting him to release sport billy, under threat of something nasty. Or sport billy is invited by senior bod to go on AT and we get the same scenario as above.
If your face fits AT is available.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
It is also a good fitness activity. I learnt to ski on a two-week Army funded ski course. IIRC I paid a nominal sum for kit or something. It was in Cyprus.
I can't stand the attitude of people like the thread starter with their "if it's not ops we shouldn't be doing it". Well, I am only spending five months of this year on ops - manning have really shot themselves in the foot there, that's seven months wasted. Don't tell the papers!