The Falklands / The Malvinas - (again?)
The regular answer that most people on here seem to provide, when the conversation gets around to funding the current and future MOD capability, is that there is no money. There is money, unfortunately, most of it goes into the pockets of the great unwashed, the single parents, the long term unemployed, legal aid, social security, incapacity benefits for the fat, new cars for the fat etc etc. The country needs to get itself away from rewarding those who do not want to contribute. No, I am not being unfair, most of the people I speak with all know someone who is taking the P!**.
These bits of rock around the world are the source of our future wealth along with the centuries of coal under our feet. We need to protect and defend our resources. We will be out of the Stan sooner rather than later and we then need to reset to deal with resource based conflicts. The previous post about the vulnerability of fixed airfields is well made although I think you under-estimate what it would take to be successful.
These bits of rock around the world are the source of our future wealth along with the centuries of coal under our feet. We need to protect and defend our resources. We will be out of the Stan sooner rather than later and we then need to reset to deal with resource based conflicts. The previous post about the vulnerability of fixed airfields is well made although I think you under-estimate what it would take to be successful.
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Maybe naively, I also think you underestimate the will of the British Public were there ever another attack / invasion. I don't think they'd let the politicians get away with doing nothing, and I doubt the press would either!
Looks like the Tories are being quite clear about their beliefs - heres hoping the government do the same!
Looks like the Tories are being quite clear about their beliefs - heres hoping the government do the same!
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Times Online - Argentina will ‘take measures’ to stop British oil drilling off Falklands
As the article points out, military action won't be needed on the part of the Argentines as.......
We really don't have the time or resources to be fighting this one out, so it'll be up to the diplomats to square this one on their own, I think. Of course, the US Government could show how much they value our 'special relationship' and add their weight to persuading Argentina to go and bother someone else for a bit.
As the article points out, military action won't be needed on the part of the Argentines as.......
controls that block shipping from using Argentine ports could render oil exploration uneconomic.
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OK, it’s the Mail;
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1251901/British-warship-sent-Argentina-oil-drilling-row-deepens.html
My blue.
It’s clearly written by one of their top reporters because it has a picture of;
Argentina stopping merchant ships that it believes to be running “contraband”, to examine papers etc, would be an embuggerance and probably legal if the UN is wound up in the right way. They don't need to invade and, as I said, they aren't stupid.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1251901/British-warship-sent-Argentina-oil-drilling-row-deepens.html
Argentina has warned Britain it 'shouldn't be complacent' and that it would defend its sovereignty in the territorial dispute off the Falkland Islands.
However, Buenos Aires insisted it did did not mean a repeat of the 1982 Falklands war. The South American country has said it will take its dispute over plans by UK firms to explore oil off the islands to the United Nations.
Argentine Foreign Minister
However, Buenos Aires insisted it did did not mean a repeat of the 1982 Falklands war. The South American country has said it will take its dispute over plans by UK firms to explore oil off the islands to the United Nations.
Argentine Foreign Minister
It’s clearly written by one of their top reporters because it has a picture of;
Type 2 destroyer the HMS York is patrolling waters off Port Stanley
Argentina stopping merchant ships that it believes to be running “contraband”, to examine papers etc, would be an embuggerance and probably legal if the UN is wound up in the right way. They don't need to invade and, as I said, they aren't stupid.
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All the posturing and brow beating in the world will not hide the one truth, even Argentina realises the UK armed forces are a spent force capabilty wise to redo a re run of the Faklands war, and the reason for that is simple.......
Politician's and their endless budget cuts to feed and educate the third world and pay those that choose to sit at home all day or chose to travel to the UK to sit at home and be paid for it.....
What I would do....
Unemployment benefit should be increased to help those who suddenly find themselves in the predicament with mortgage payments etc, after all paying Ł800 a week to put a family in a B & B is stupid if their mortgage payments are less than that.... Payments will decrease to a basic benefit until at the 2 year point when they will cease, period, these folks that sit at home and refuse jobs because they are better off will simply find them selves without anything!
Sorry off topic rant.
Politician's and their endless budget cuts to feed and educate the third world and pay those that choose to sit at home all day or chose to travel to the UK to sit at home and be paid for it.....
What I would do....
Unemployment benefit should be increased to help those who suddenly find themselves in the predicament with mortgage payments etc, after all paying Ł800 a week to put a family in a B & B is stupid if their mortgage payments are less than that.... Payments will decrease to a basic benefit until at the 2 year point when they will cease, period, these folks that sit at home and refuse jobs because they are better off will simply find them selves without anything!
Sorry off topic rant.
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Surely if a ship leaves an Argentinian port for the Falklands', then it is fair game for the Argies to scream & shout about, but the chances are an Argentinian company was standing to make money from any shipment & shipping business?
However if a ship bound for the Falklands' from ANY OTHER port, South American or not, is sailing in international waters & is stopped, boarded, searched & confiscated by the Argentine Armada, isn't that tantermount to piracy?
4 more Tyffies, 8 GR4's with Sea Eagles, 4 Nimrods, an extra tanker & a pair of AWACS, another Sub, a Frigate, a Destroyer & an RFA tender should be sent to MPA on an 'Exercise'. I'm sure the Americans can cover our NATO obligations in exchange for an oil deal or 2 & HMG should get it's finger out & build the airfield on TdC that the islanders want... just in case...
However if a ship bound for the Falklands' from ANY OTHER port, South American or not, is sailing in international waters & is stopped, boarded, searched & confiscated by the Argentine Armada, isn't that tantermount to piracy?
4 more Tyffies, 8 GR4's with Sea Eagles, 4 Nimrods, an extra tanker & a pair of AWACS, another Sub, a Frigate, a Destroyer & an RFA tender should be sent to MPA on an 'Exercise'. I'm sure the Americans can cover our NATO obligations in exchange for an oil deal or 2 & HMG should get it's finger out & build the airfield on TdC that the islanders want... just in case...
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After reading carefully all your posts, I wonder, What is the problem???!!! If Argentina do not allow ships entry their docks, just knock on Chile´s door!
This is only a "presure problem", very far from becoming a war. You must remember what happen to Brazil when the oil costs raised one year ago, they started to explore their waters in order to find a place for drilling and save money. UK, and it´s my opinion, is trying to get some reserves for the future. There is no benefit getting out oil nowadays with the price of a barrel.
And for everyone, if you have the opportunity go to Falklands, there is nothing at all for visiting! When I was there, they only had 2 hotels and the biggest part of the islands are empty(if you do not take note of sheeps and mines of the war). But if you finally decide to go do not miss the opprtunity to visite Argentina!
This is only a "presure problem", very far from becoming a war. You must remember what happen to Brazil when the oil costs raised one year ago, they started to explore their waters in order to find a place for drilling and save money. UK, and it´s my opinion, is trying to get some reserves for the future. There is no benefit getting out oil nowadays with the price of a barrel.
And for everyone, if you have the opportunity go to Falklands, there is nothing at all for visiting! When I was there, they only had 2 hotels and the biggest part of the islands are empty(if you do not take note of sheeps and mines of the war). But if you finally decide to go do not miss the opprtunity to visite Argentina!
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Fubarr
i assume your comment was directed at me
the point i was making to people like jabba-tg12 who said
"All they've got to do is take MPA."
With what?
there's no realistic propect of an inavsion, special forces or conventional they don't have the kit!
their politicains dislike and underfund their armed forces to an even greater extent then brown does in the UK, though in their case given their history its understandable
i assume your comment was directed at me
the point i was making to people like jabba-tg12 who said
"All they've got to do is take MPA."
With what?
there's no realistic propect of an inavsion, special forces or conventional they don't have the kit!
their politicains dislike and underfund their armed forces to an even greater extent then brown does in the UK, though in their case given their history its understandable
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So all this talk from Argentina and assurances from Brown that we are prepared. So what happens when we reconfigure to a COIN only military? Chinooks are awesome in the Stan but its short sighted to be cutting the RAF and Navy in just about every other way. How long will it be before we are incapable of undertaking such an operation down south I wonder? Do we never learn the lessons of history!
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I'm pretty sure Officers & Men (and others) of HQBFSA are well briefed & familiar with scenario's such as the Argie SF crash landing, say for example, a Punta Arenas departed/ Antarctica bound 'GreenPeace' Chartered, Angolan registered Herc', declaring 'Electrical problems' & 'Mayday'ing in to an unsuspecting MPA leaping out & saying "Buenos Dias, Gringo y Amigas"!....
...by the way, how did the last exercise go?
...INCOMING!!!!!
...by the way, how did the last exercise go?
...INCOMING!!!!!
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I am a little shocked by what a huge huge effort it was to get those 4 Phoons down to MPA - and how long it took. It's clear to me that against an organised Argie attack we would have no chance of increasing that number in a timely manner.
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Well with 232 on order, why not just put a half dozen from each delivery tranche there permanently, and do this while we can, even if not crewed.
The classic "TTW" phase might not exist in this scenario. It didn't last time.
Edited to add "It didn't last time, or at least the Int wasn't believed".
The classic "TTW" phase might not exist in this scenario. It didn't last time.
Edited to add "It didn't last time, or at least the Int wasn't believed".
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Perhaps the F3s should have been left down there as well. 
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Cosmiccomet.
Hi again. I think we may be having a problem as English is not your first language (and Spanish isn't one of mine at all
).
I am not blaming the Argentine people for being interested in the world cup (and yes we were here too). I just feel that British troops felt more supported by the British public than the Argentine troops were by the Argentine public. This is not a complaint against your people, but IMHO did make your troops wonder why they were going through such tough times if no one cared about them.
I am also not saying Britain is a great place to live, or Argentina is a bad place.
It is good you are sticking up for your country. You may also know that no matter how much politicians cause trouble, and start wars, that the troops of both sides usually can get on well together, and have things in common.
You mention your air force pilots. I think most folks on this site will agree that your air force and navy pilots were very brave in their missions, and were well trained. But of course, it was a war, and so we did our best to win, just as your side did.
So, please don't confuse any digs at your countries leader of the time, with a dig at the general population.
Hi again. I think we may be having a problem as English is not your first language (and Spanish isn't one of mine at all
).I am not blaming the Argentine people for being interested in the world cup (and yes we were here too). I just feel that British troops felt more supported by the British public than the Argentine troops were by the Argentine public. This is not a complaint against your people, but IMHO did make your troops wonder why they were going through such tough times if no one cared about them.
I am also not saying Britain is a great place to live, or Argentina is a bad place.
It is good you are sticking up for your country. You may also know that no matter how much politicians cause trouble, and start wars, that the troops of both sides usually can get on well together, and have things in common.
You mention your air force pilots. I think most folks on this site will agree that your air force and navy pilots were very brave in their missions, and were well trained. But of course, it was a war, and so we did our best to win, just as your side did.
So, please don't confuse any digs at your countries leader of the time, with a dig at the general population.
