The Falklands / The Malvinas - (again?)
If you read his post properly you will see that Chugalug was giving special credit to the Argentine Air Force - not the RAF!
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"What concerns me is that people assume the Argentinians will not have another try militarily."
They won't Kirchner and the military don't get on, she and her husband were students at the time the miltary was making students "disappear" and she has been a consistent supporter of investigations into said events much to the militarys anoyance
they also don't have the kit, its a bit difficult to invade (and sustain the invasion) the islands if you dont have any form of landing ship
stu666
Venezuela seems to be the most likley candidate though chavez's flankers are struggling with the humidity by all acounts
having said that making supportive noises at the first meeting of your new "no-gringo's" club when your all trying (and failing) to get on is one thing, its HIGHLY unlikley to translate into practicle help in a shooting war
They won't Kirchner and the military don't get on, she and her husband were students at the time the miltary was making students "disappear" and she has been a consistent supporter of investigations into said events much to the militarys anoyance
they also don't have the kit, its a bit difficult to invade (and sustain the invasion) the islands if you dont have any form of landing ship
stu666
Venezuela seems to be the most likley candidate though chavez's flankers are struggling with the humidity by all acounts
having said that making supportive noises at the first meeting of your new "no-gringo's" club when your all trying (and failing) to get on is one thing, its HIGHLY unlikley to translate into practicle help in a shooting war
My apology to all then.....sorry I miss read the post.
No problem SASless. While I'm busy confessing my guilt-ridden angst, your mention of "my war" (which I assume is Vietnam?) produced even more. While you flew:
I was enjoying the tour of a lifetime in Changi on Hastings (4-engine gooney birds as we were ever obliged to explain to your disbelieving countrymen). With the many US bases in the Far East we were for ever dropping in, and enjoying generous and overwhelming hospitality when we did so. Never once was mention made that we should have been fighting alongside you and your Antipodean Allies, which I for one then thought we should. In my dotage I think I was wrong and Harold Wilson, our PM, right to refuse even so much as a "Scottish Bagpiper". From that experience I learned that the Americans are generous to a fault, that if wars are entered into they must be fought to win, and that it is far far better to avoid entering into them in the first place if at all possible. If the Falklands are attacked again it will not be possible and consequently this country will again be at war. Perhaps a few lessons learned in the '60s need to be re-learned?
support missions for the troops on the ground, taking them into the fight, supplying them while they were there, retrieving their dead and wounded, and flying them out afterwards.
I too have come to the mind that we had no business in Vietnam. Now, I see it as a war of reunification and the ending of French Colonial rule that we somehow got involved in for all the wrong reasons. In a few days, I am headed back there for my second post war trip and look forward to seeing the place again. Politics can sure confuse things in my view....and I fully agree with the view that one plays to win after you kick off the game.
My first tourist trip was when I came to the firm conclusion about the war I hold now. I was stood at Ho Chi Minh's house, lookiing at his dinner table, and I began to wonder why I was able to do so. I would have thought that area of Hanoi would have looked like the surface of the Moon with huge bomb craters all about the place and nothing standing....much less Ho's dinner plates and cups neatly arranged for all to see.
I will have to admit getting some pleasure out of looking down Ho's nostrils as he lay in state as that was now the second Communist Leader I had done that to....Mao being the first while in Bejjing.
The fact he sought American assistance several times and was refused makes it all the worse in hind sight.
Ya'll didn't miss anything by sitting that one out.....as I now think we should have as well. The only mitigating thought is we may have helped limit the spread of Communism by taking a stand there in Vietnam/Cambodia/Laos but sure should have done a much better job of it. It sure wasn't the troops on the ground or the sea and air support that let us down as it was the political and military leadership at the highest levels of the US Government that failed us.
I see a lot of the same going on today in both the US and UK.
One funny note.....
Subic Bay Chiefs Mess....circa late 60's...height of the Vietnam War.
Visiting RN vessel....lots of mingling in the Mess.
American getting some guff from the RN about how the war is going.
American retorts...."Well....we don't see your sorry asses there!"
British Reply...."And you won't either mate, the NVA seem to be doing quite well without us!"
I understand the RN became fully engaged in a flash!
My first tourist trip was when I came to the firm conclusion about the war I hold now. I was stood at Ho Chi Minh's house, lookiing at his dinner table, and I began to wonder why I was able to do so. I would have thought that area of Hanoi would have looked like the surface of the Moon with huge bomb craters all about the place and nothing standing....much less Ho's dinner plates and cups neatly arranged for all to see.
I will have to admit getting some pleasure out of looking down Ho's nostrils as he lay in state as that was now the second Communist Leader I had done that to....Mao being the first while in Bejjing.
The fact he sought American assistance several times and was refused makes it all the worse in hind sight.
Ya'll didn't miss anything by sitting that one out.....as I now think we should have as well. The only mitigating thought is we may have helped limit the spread of Communism by taking a stand there in Vietnam/Cambodia/Laos but sure should have done a much better job of it. It sure wasn't the troops on the ground or the sea and air support that let us down as it was the political and military leadership at the highest levels of the US Government that failed us.
I see a lot of the same going on today in both the US and UK.
One funny note.....
Subic Bay Chiefs Mess....circa late 60's...height of the Vietnam War.
Visiting RN vessel....lots of mingling in the Mess.
American getting some guff from the RN about how the war is going.
American retorts...."Well....we don't see your sorry asses there!"
British Reply...."And you won't either mate, the NVA seem to be doing quite well without us!"
I understand the RN became fully engaged in a flash!
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*If* (completely hypothetically) Argentina did manage to claim posession the Falkland Islands through the UN, the question is what other lands would be at risk of "reposession" by other countries under the same principle?
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
What, like Taiwan, Gibraltar, Cyprus/the Aegean, Bahrain, the Kuril Islands, Alsace Lorraine, not even starting on the Middle East and the other remnants of the Ottoman, Austro-Hungarian and Soviet empires? And for South America there's Venezuala's claims on Guyana, Guatemala for Belize, Chile with Equador, Bolivia and Argentina. I won't even start on Africa and the Far East in areas such as the Spratly islands. Closer to home can I mention Rockall? 
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ORAC
According to my distinguished French Neighbour (a former Presidential Chief of Staff who is an expert on early French History) the small Hamlet in which we live was the most forward English Outpost in SW France at the beginning of the 100 Years War.
Today the majority of properties in the Hamlet are again English owned - should we secede?
The answer is of course NO (not least because of the UK taxes on wine)!!!
According to my distinguished French Neighbour (a former Presidential Chief of Staff who is an expert on early French History) the small Hamlet in which we live was the most forward English Outpost in SW France at the beginning of the 100 Years War.
Today the majority of properties in the Hamlet are again English owned - should we secede?
The answer is of course NO (not least because of the UK taxes on wine)!!!
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Today the majority of properties in the Hamlet are again English owned - should we secede?
You should regard it more as the Normans coming home....
Might not the England revert to the Germans by means of inheritance some day? Do They, as I have heard, celebrate Christmas on the 24th and not on the 25th as do the English common people.
Being no expert on the English Monarchy.....perhaps someone can explain the family tree in simple terms ex-Colonialists can understand re the House of Hanover and all that.
Could some schnitzel chomper wind up with the Crown Jewels one day?
Being no expert on the English Monarchy.....perhaps someone can explain the family tree in simple terms ex-Colonialists can understand re the House of Hanover and all that.
Could some schnitzel chomper wind up with the Crown Jewels one day?
Last edited by SASless; 1st Mar 2010 at 21:19. Reason: Cleaned the post up....to make it fully...a Question!
Tony could happily be described, with the complete the affirmation of his close neighbours and countrymen as, " A Scotsman wi his heid kicked in"
Right Drapsey
On that note Brick,one of my ongoing and oldest projects is the investigation of the transit of Top Nazis to Argentina through our neighbouring island, Fuerteventura.
Google Villa Winter. Trouble is Wikipedia keep editing out and erasing our discoveries for some reason
Right Drapsey
On that note Brick,one of my ongoing and oldest projects is the investigation of the transit of Top Nazis to Argentina through our neighbouring island, Fuerteventura.
Google Villa Winter. Trouble is Wikipedia keep editing out and erasing our discoveries for some reason
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How do you service a Rig?
For Metman/ORAC. The Opening Session of the Special Committee on Decolonization in New York last week, has the UN list comprising Gibraltar, New Caledonia, Western Sahara, American Samoa, Anguilla, Bermuda, British and US Virgin Islands, Cayman Islands, Guam, Montserrat, Pitcairn, Saint Helena, Turks and Caicos Islands, Tokelau and the Falkland Islands (Malvinas).
This motley crew, known as the Committee of 24, has 28 members: Antigua and Barbuda, Bolivia, Chile, China, Congo, Côte d’Ivoire, Cuba, Dominica,
Ecuador, Ethiopia, Fiji, Grenada, India, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Mali, Papua New Guinea, Russian Federation, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Sierra Leone, Syria, Timor-Leste, Tunisia, United Republic of Tanzania and Venezuela.
If you deconstruct the word 'Decolonization', ization is the act, process, or result of making or doing, as applied to the colon. Without upsetting the Mods, I am told the benefits of colonic irrigation can be seen as improved bowel function together with clearer skin, more mental clarity and fewer headaches. Indeed, Cristina F' has got U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton to pop into BA sometime this week, perhaps to recommend the process.
Meanwhile, a liquid discussion with ancient aviators out of the North Sea raised one sensible question: how do the Oil conglomerates propose to service these oil rigs? It is not just Desire Oil. Petrobras Energia SA (Brazil), Repsol-YPF (Spain) and Pan American Energy (BP Control) agreed in late 2008 to explore for and possibly produce oil in blocks in the Cuenca Malvinas. This area is located in deep water 200 kilometers from Tierra del Fuego and south west of the current drilling in the North Falkland Basin.
Falkland Oil and Gas Limited (FOGL) has FIG licences in a new, untested basin covering 33,700 sq kms south and east of the Falkland Islands.
Melbourne mining group BHP Billiton is scheduled to start exploiting its licence to explore off the Falkland Islands in the next four months and has been warned by Argentina's ambassador to Australia that it faces business sanctions if it pushes ahead with oil exploration.
As Google Earth puts the well Liz 14/19-A at about 140 miles from Stanley Airfield and around 270 miles to the nearest point of South America, what commercial helicopter can the Oilers use? Chile does not appear to have a commercial medium helo option, unless the US relent and let the military have 5 Russian M17s.
This motley crew, known as the Committee of 24, has 28 members: Antigua and Barbuda, Bolivia, Chile, China, Congo, Côte d’Ivoire, Cuba, Dominica,
Ecuador, Ethiopia, Fiji, Grenada, India, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Mali, Papua New Guinea, Russian Federation, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Sierra Leone, Syria, Timor-Leste, Tunisia, United Republic of Tanzania and Venezuela.
If you deconstruct the word 'Decolonization', ization is the act, process, or result of making or doing, as applied to the colon. Without upsetting the Mods, I am told the benefits of colonic irrigation can be seen as improved bowel function together with clearer skin, more mental clarity and fewer headaches. Indeed, Cristina F' has got U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton to pop into BA sometime this week, perhaps to recommend the process.
Meanwhile, a liquid discussion with ancient aviators out of the North Sea raised one sensible question: how do the Oil conglomerates propose to service these oil rigs? It is not just Desire Oil. Petrobras Energia SA (Brazil), Repsol-YPF (Spain) and Pan American Energy (BP Control) agreed in late 2008 to explore for and possibly produce oil in blocks in the Cuenca Malvinas. This area is located in deep water 200 kilometers from Tierra del Fuego and south west of the current drilling in the North Falkland Basin.
Falkland Oil and Gas Limited (FOGL) has FIG licences in a new, untested basin covering 33,700 sq kms south and east of the Falkland Islands.
Melbourne mining group BHP Billiton is scheduled to start exploiting its licence to explore off the Falkland Islands in the next four months and has been warned by Argentina's ambassador to Australia that it faces business sanctions if it pushes ahead with oil exploration.
As Google Earth puts the well Liz 14/19-A at about 140 miles from Stanley Airfield and around 270 miles to the nearest point of South America, what commercial helicopter can the Oilers use? Chile does not appear to have a commercial medium helo option, unless the US relent and let the military have 5 Russian M17s.
Google Earth puts the well Liz 14/19-A at about 140 miles from Stanley Airfield
SASless,
While there are a few Boxheads in the Queen's genealogical closet, she's far from German.
Since the Brits are, by nature, a mongrel lot, most of us incline towards the thought that anyone born here, and who proclaims themselves English, sort of qualifies. And while Betty Windsor's grand-parents may have changed the family surname from Saxe Coburg Gotha as 'recently' as 1917, and though she's married to a Danish/Greek she hasn't got a German born ancestor since her Great great grandfather, Prince Albert (husband of the incredibly English Victoria - whose mum may also have been a tad on the German side), and we haven't had a foreign born or non English speaking monarch since George II, King from 1727-1760. That's nearly 300 years ago, and he was her great, great, great, great, great, great grandfather.
Not a terribly German monarchy..... and if we have to go back that far to define nationality, then there's barely such a thing as an American.
Generations:
QE II < KG VI < KG V < KE VII < Q V < Prince Edward, Duke of Kent < KG III < Frederick, PoW < King George II (who was a proper GERMAN - though in those days there was no such thing as Germany, of course!)
While there are a few Boxheads in the Queen's genealogical closet, she's far from German.
Since the Brits are, by nature, a mongrel lot, most of us incline towards the thought that anyone born here, and who proclaims themselves English, sort of qualifies. And while Betty Windsor's grand-parents may have changed the family surname from Saxe Coburg Gotha as 'recently' as 1917, and though she's married to a Danish/Greek she hasn't got a German born ancestor since her Great great grandfather, Prince Albert (husband of the incredibly English Victoria - whose mum may also have been a tad on the German side), and we haven't had a foreign born or non English speaking monarch since George II, King from 1727-1760. That's nearly 300 years ago, and he was her great, great, great, great, great, great grandfather.
Not a terribly German monarchy..... and if we have to go back that far to define nationality, then there's barely such a thing as an American.
Generations:
QE II < KG VI < KG V < KE VII < Q V < Prince Edward, Duke of Kent < KG III < Frederick, PoW < King George II (who was a proper GERMAN - though in those days there was no such thing as Germany, of course!)
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Betty Windsor's grand-parents
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the incredibly English Victoria