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OFFICER and AIRCREW 'CANDIDATES' PLEASE READ THIS THREAD FIRST!
Jo and all concerned,
I've recently successfully gone through the selection system for Pilot, so I'll try to answer a few of your Q's and others on this thread as best I can!
After a successful filter interview at your local AFCO, you'll go for an initial screening medical with Capita under the new medical assessment process, where you'll probably find out if your hand will be an issue. As downsizer says, you'll fill in a huge batch of MSLs in the run up to it all - the supplement about your hand will be sent for assessment by the medical board at Cranwell. You'll need to provide details of your GP on those forms and I think Cranwell will contact him/her if required. Whilst I don't think that the deformity will be an issue if you've got all the correct movements and can still fire a gun, I'm no medical professional. Ultimately it'll be the decision of the medical board and they can afford to be picky.
The pass mark for Pilot in the aptitude tests is still 112. They say that a 'competitive' score is 125+, however a mate of mine got in with a score of 117, but he would have scored well in all others areas at OASC to get through and he was very fit. Your aptitude is apparently supposed to increase by 10% each time you take the test (12 months apart) and plateau at about aged 23, but don't hold me to that.
You can't necessarily practice for the tests. The only things I found helpful were practising quick simple mental arithmetic maths and inputting numbers using the number pad on a keyboard with one hand without looking - both massive time savers when it comes to the maths elements of the tests (quite a large majority of them come to think of it).
As far as I'm aware, the maximum age for Pilot is 26 by the time you start your training (IOT), so you've got time to brush up on things. You'll need to know a lot about current affairs, military knowledge, IOT and the Pilot training route (all streams).
The aptitude tests are conducted on a separate occasion before OASC before hand. OASC is conducted over 2 days upon a pass of the ATs. On day 1 you will be put into syndicates of 4-7 people. You will do the group discussion, group planning exercise, leaderless hangar exercise, command hangar exercise and then the individual planning exercise. That night the boarding officers will discuss and make their decision on who to take through to the next day. First thing on day 2 you will be told if you've made it to the next phase or not. If you have, you will have your final medical (anthropometric measurements, full eye test, blood tests, ECG, spirometry and hearing test). interview and then final your fitness test in the gym. Time until finding out varies, but they aim to get back to you within 2-4 weeks.
The interview at OASC is more difficult than the filter one, but it can never hurt to be well prepared for both. They'll ask you to discuss some UK and global news stories that have caught your eye in the last 6 months, so go prepared with 5 of each. They don't all have to be of a military theme. In fact, for a boarding officer who's been conducting regular interviews every week with many candidates, they will probably find it quite refreshing to talk about something different for once. They'll pick one story from each, and discuss and challenge your view on it. Don't back down on your view and have some conviction about your points, but don't get argumentative - they're just seeing how you perform when challenged and under a bit of pressure. Don't try to bullsh*t a bullsh*tter either, they'll spot that and waffling a mile off.
They'll ask you to name some aircraft, their role, maybe which operations they've been involved with, which Sqn they belong to and where they're based.
You'll need to know IOT back to front and inside out, how many weeks it is, the names of the leadership assessment exercises, what happens week by week, where you'll be staying and how it's structured. They'll give you a booklet on IOT in your P2 presentation that has all of the information you'll need, the RAF website has got a stack of stuff on it as well.
They will probably ask you to go through the pilot training courses as well. How long each course is, how many hours of flying (actual and simulator) what you'll fly, how it's assessed, where the courses are held, which Sqn you'll be with and which operational conversion unit you'll eventually end up on. You'll need to know this for each stream, fast jet, rotary and multi-engine. Again, the RAF websites goes through it all in great detail.
Lastly there's the difficult questions that test your substantiation and motivation for joining the RAF. Questions such as 'Why do you want to join the RAF?', 'Why do you want to join as an commissioned Officer?', 'What qualities do you think an Officer in the RAF needs to have? What qualities will you be able to bring to the RAF?' and 'What are the benefits/challenges of service life?'. They will test your attitude towards warfare by posing a situation (you're a pilot that's just ejected and the enemy are coming for you and you've got a pistol, you may have to pull the trigger on someone/you're a pilot, you may have to drop a bomb on a target.) and asking how do you feel about that? The interview is very fast paced. You've got 45 minutes only, no more and no less, to get through everything. They have to fair to everyone on the time allowance. You'll often find them glancing up at the clock above you to make sure they're on time, it can be quite off-putting.
The fitness test pass mark (Green) is, as you say:
Bleep test: 9.10
PUs: 20
SIs: 35
DO NOT aim for just these pass standards. Pilot (as well as every role in the RAF these days) is a very competitive role and they'll be looking for you to attain higher than a green pass if you're going to be competitive. I'd aim for light blue or more if you can, which is:
Bleep test: 11.07
PUs: 40
SIs: 41
The 1.5 mile run is not done at OASC, only the bleep test. However if you are successful, the 1.5 mile is the fitness test they will use at your familiarisation visit 10 weeks before you start IOT and sometimes throughout IOT. It is done outside, not on a treadmill anymore.
Overall: be enthusiastic, a pleasure to talk to, motivated, keen, friendly, engaging, well prepared, physically fit, maintain eye contact and try not to fidget during the interview, and try to enjoy the experience at OASC and BE YOURSELF! Most people try and pretend to be someone they're not, get nervous about it all, end up flapping about it and actually come off worse than if they'd just relaxed, been themselves and enjoyed it. If you're the kind of person that the RAF want, they'll see it much more easily than if you're masking.
This was just my experience at OASC. Whilst the process follows a fairly structured and regimented order, OASC is an ever-changing process, so be prepared. Hopefully this has answered a few of your questions.
Happy to answer any more that people may have.
CM
I've recently successfully gone through the selection system for Pilot, so I'll try to answer a few of your Q's and others on this thread as best I can!
After a successful filter interview at your local AFCO, you'll go for an initial screening medical with Capita under the new medical assessment process, where you'll probably find out if your hand will be an issue. As downsizer says, you'll fill in a huge batch of MSLs in the run up to it all - the supplement about your hand will be sent for assessment by the medical board at Cranwell. You'll need to provide details of your GP on those forms and I think Cranwell will contact him/her if required. Whilst I don't think that the deformity will be an issue if you've got all the correct movements and can still fire a gun, I'm no medical professional. Ultimately it'll be the decision of the medical board and they can afford to be picky.
The pass mark for Pilot in the aptitude tests is still 112. They say that a 'competitive' score is 125+, however a mate of mine got in with a score of 117, but he would have scored well in all others areas at OASC to get through and he was very fit. Your aptitude is apparently supposed to increase by 10% each time you take the test (12 months apart) and plateau at about aged 23, but don't hold me to that.
You can't necessarily practice for the tests. The only things I found helpful were practising quick simple mental arithmetic maths and inputting numbers using the number pad on a keyboard with one hand without looking - both massive time savers when it comes to the maths elements of the tests (quite a large majority of them come to think of it).
As far as I'm aware, the maximum age for Pilot is 26 by the time you start your training (IOT), so you've got time to brush up on things. You'll need to know a lot about current affairs, military knowledge, IOT and the Pilot training route (all streams).
The aptitude tests are conducted on a separate occasion before OASC before hand. OASC is conducted over 2 days upon a pass of the ATs. On day 1 you will be put into syndicates of 4-7 people. You will do the group discussion, group planning exercise, leaderless hangar exercise, command hangar exercise and then the individual planning exercise. That night the boarding officers will discuss and make their decision on who to take through to the next day. First thing on day 2 you will be told if you've made it to the next phase or not. If you have, you will have your final medical (anthropometric measurements, full eye test, blood tests, ECG, spirometry and hearing test). interview and then final your fitness test in the gym. Time until finding out varies, but they aim to get back to you within 2-4 weeks.
The interview at OASC is more difficult than the filter one, but it can never hurt to be well prepared for both. They'll ask you to discuss some UK and global news stories that have caught your eye in the last 6 months, so go prepared with 5 of each. They don't all have to be of a military theme. In fact, for a boarding officer who's been conducting regular interviews every week with many candidates, they will probably find it quite refreshing to talk about something different for once. They'll pick one story from each, and discuss and challenge your view on it. Don't back down on your view and have some conviction about your points, but don't get argumentative - they're just seeing how you perform when challenged and under a bit of pressure. Don't try to bullsh*t a bullsh*tter either, they'll spot that and waffling a mile off.
They'll ask you to name some aircraft, their role, maybe which operations they've been involved with, which Sqn they belong to and where they're based.
You'll need to know IOT back to front and inside out, how many weeks it is, the names of the leadership assessment exercises, what happens week by week, where you'll be staying and how it's structured. They'll give you a booklet on IOT in your P2 presentation that has all of the information you'll need, the RAF website has got a stack of stuff on it as well.
They will probably ask you to go through the pilot training courses as well. How long each course is, how many hours of flying (actual and simulator) what you'll fly, how it's assessed, where the courses are held, which Sqn you'll be with and which operational conversion unit you'll eventually end up on. You'll need to know this for each stream, fast jet, rotary and multi-engine. Again, the RAF websites goes through it all in great detail.
Lastly there's the difficult questions that test your substantiation and motivation for joining the RAF. Questions such as 'Why do you want to join the RAF?', 'Why do you want to join as an commissioned Officer?', 'What qualities do you think an Officer in the RAF needs to have? What qualities will you be able to bring to the RAF?' and 'What are the benefits/challenges of service life?'. They will test your attitude towards warfare by posing a situation (you're a pilot that's just ejected and the enemy are coming for you and you've got a pistol, you may have to pull the trigger on someone/you're a pilot, you may have to drop a bomb on a target.) and asking how do you feel about that? The interview is very fast paced. You've got 45 minutes only, no more and no less, to get through everything. They have to fair to everyone on the time allowance. You'll often find them glancing up at the clock above you to make sure they're on time, it can be quite off-putting.
The fitness test pass mark (Green) is, as you say:
Bleep test: 9.10
PUs: 20
SIs: 35
DO NOT aim for just these pass standards. Pilot (as well as every role in the RAF these days) is a very competitive role and they'll be looking for you to attain higher than a green pass if you're going to be competitive. I'd aim for light blue or more if you can, which is:
Bleep test: 11.07
PUs: 40
SIs: 41
The 1.5 mile run is not done at OASC, only the bleep test. However if you are successful, the 1.5 mile is the fitness test they will use at your familiarisation visit 10 weeks before you start IOT and sometimes throughout IOT. It is done outside, not on a treadmill anymore.
Overall: be enthusiastic, a pleasure to talk to, motivated, keen, friendly, engaging, well prepared, physically fit, maintain eye contact and try not to fidget during the interview, and try to enjoy the experience at OASC and BE YOURSELF! Most people try and pretend to be someone they're not, get nervous about it all, end up flapping about it and actually come off worse than if they'd just relaxed, been themselves and enjoyed it. If you're the kind of person that the RAF want, they'll see it much more easily than if you're masking.
This was just my experience at OASC. Whilst the process follows a fairly structured and regimented order, OASC is an ever-changing process, so be prepared. Hopefully this has answered a few of your questions.
Happy to answer any more that people may have.
CM
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
On recent news in the last 6 months, don't forget the election.
One candidate, stumped for an answer, could not remember the 2005 election only a few months previous. And don't assume a Tory answer is a 'best' answer. Hold a view (on any news) and prepare to argue a point.
One candidate, stumped for an answer, could not remember the 2005 election only a few months previous. And don't assume a Tory answer is a 'best' answer. Hold a view (on any news) and prepare to argue a point.
Gentleman Aviator
Hold a view (on any news) and prepare to argue a point.
and on one occcasion managed to get a candidate to change their mind - and then change it back again! They were just so determined to agree with me ........ 
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
WoR, personally I think your desire to switch from a high money career to a high flying one may well be a good interview point. The key point here is what proof you can bring to interview that your internship was indeed successful and you have that job offer.
Apply.
I would have sent you a PM but you have chosen not to receive them.
Apply.
I would have sent you a PM but you have chosen not to receive them.
Last edited by Pontius Navigator; 18th May 2015 at 11:05.
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Thank you, I will try to enable my PM's, I assumed they would be turned on as default!
I appreciate your reply and that is positive news!
From your experience, what would be the best preparation over this summer to really boost my application? I am already involved in team sports and the consensus regarding flying experience seems to sway towards being a blank canvas as opposed to a lad with a PPL?
Please correct me if I'm wrong,
Again, any advice is appreciated!
I appreciate your reply and that is positive news!
From your experience, what would be the best preparation over this summer to really boost my application? I am already involved in team sports and the consensus regarding flying experience seems to sway towards being a blank canvas as opposed to a lad with a PPL?
Please correct me if I'm wrong,
Again, any advice is appreciated!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Wings, still nothing. You could send me yr email address if you can't figure out PM s
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Navy FATs
Hello everybody,
I hope this is the right place.
I'm applying to be a pilot (like everybody else), but for the Royal Navy, because I like my socks to be 80% seawater and I've made too many enemies at home. I have my FATs coming up fairly soon - I've been researching them since I got my dates, but I thought I'd post here because I have a few points I'd like advice on. I appreciate I'm not applying for the RAF right now but as far as I understand it the computer based aptitude tests are the same for all aircrew applicants regardless of service.
I've been practicing my mental maths, Speed/Distance/Time and fuel calculations and things ... actually I'm quite looking forward to actually doing the tests because then I can have a break from the endless SDT. I've had some official notes regarding the tests and what to expect, and I'll just have to see how I do - I just have a few queries.
.
I've wanted to fly Navy helicopters since I was about 4 so I'm really hoping for a good result. I've had the privilege of wearing a flying suit for a few years in a very junior part of the RAF, but unfortunately it's convinced me I want to be wearing one on weekdays too. I'm just trying to give myself the best possible opportunity to prove myself; I'm aware that with a rapidly shrinking fleet, the amount of aircrew required to drive Wildcats from the decks is diminishing to single digits.
Thanks so much for your help! Cheers
I hope this is the right place.
I'm applying to be a pilot (like everybody else), but for the Royal Navy, because I like my socks to be 80% seawater and I've made too many enemies at home. I have my FATs coming up fairly soon - I've been researching them since I got my dates, but I thought I'd post here because I have a few points I'd like advice on. I appreciate I'm not applying for the RAF right now but as far as I understand it the computer based aptitude tests are the same for all aircrew applicants regardless of service.
I've been practicing my mental maths, Speed/Distance/Time and fuel calculations and things ... actually I'm quite looking forward to actually doing the tests because then I can have a break from the endless SDT. I've had some official notes regarding the tests and what to expect, and I'll just have to see how I do - I just have a few queries.
1. There's a specific memory test where you have to remember up to 15 digits or something in 5 seconds. I've been trying this in all sorts of ways and I find that 11-12 is my absolute limit, and it's not perfect. How did everybody find this test and did they have a particular technique that worked?
2. I've heard different things from different people regarding this - is a fail in one particular test a fail overall? Or is the scoring system a first past the post kind of thing where your scores for each test are added up to give a final mark?
For instance, if some prat (let's say me) got good scores on the tests but failed a specific test (... some memory one, for example ...) - would that lead to an end-ex on the whole thing?
3. I understand that the Navy weights tests differently for Pilot/Observer/ATC - since these are joint tests sat by all aircrew candidates, is there a separate system to decide whether you've scored highly for Pilot, for example, and not reached the standard for Observer, or vice-versa? Are there specific 'Observer' tests, for example, or is it weighted differently?
4. A friend of mine who was selected for Observer said that the test where you have to answer questions on the antics of a ton of coloured spitfires was mainly guesswork for him... I understand the purpose of the tests, and that they're assessing aptitude in these areas for a reason, but is there a method pilots use to keep track of a whole canopy of aircraft all doing different things?
I understand the importance of preparation of maths and things - I think it just gives your brain more time to concentrate on everything else that's going on, but I guess in the end you're either suited or you're not. I recently passed some civvy aptitude tests, but irritatingly they neglected to provide any feedback at all apart from 'you've passed' so I have no idea if I aced them or scraped them .I've wanted to fly Navy helicopters since I was about 4 so I'm really hoping for a good result. I've had the privilege of wearing a flying suit for a few years in a very junior part of the RAF, but unfortunately it's convinced me I want to be wearing one on weekdays too. I'm just trying to give myself the best possible opportunity to prove myself; I'm aware that with a rapidly shrinking fleet, the amount of aircrew required to drive Wildcats from the decks is diminishing to single digits.
Thanks so much for your help! Cheers
Last edited by Waterwings2; 31st May 2015 at 15:41. Reason: general prose
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Actually, as it happens, I passed my fats. 138/134 pilot/observer.
The memory test is more straightforward than I thought - it's more of a question of remembering how many numbers there are of a certain type, rather than trying to remember a whole sequence.
The spitfire one did actually turn out to be complete guesswork. I have literally no idea how I passed it. Maybe I subconsciously knew what went on, but I doubt it.
I suppose if anyone's going to sit the tests soon they can contact me if they have any questions from a candidate point of view
The memory test is more straightforward than I thought - it's more of a question of remembering how many numbers there are of a certain type, rather than trying to remember a whole sequence.
The spitfire one did actually turn out to be complete guesswork. I have literally no idea how I passed it. Maybe I subconsciously knew what went on, but I doubt it.
I suppose if anyone's going to sit the tests soon they can contact me if they have any questions from a candidate point of view
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OFFICER and AIRCREW 'CANDIDATES' PLEASE READ THIS THREAD FIRST!
Interesting to see that the WSOp entry requirements have dropped since. They previously required a grade B or above in Mathematics, but have now reverted back to previous and only require a grade C.
Anyone enlighten??
Anyone enlighten??
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downsizer,
Many thanks. I did consider that, but thought that answer was far to simple.
I'm surprised, I remember vaguely when OASC had a representative on this forum and they stated that those with grade C in Maths (results had shown) struggled with the AST/OASC tests.
Many thanks. I did consider that, but thought that answer was far to simple.
I'm surprised, I remember vaguely when OASC had a representative on this forum and they stated that those with grade C in Maths (results had shown) struggled with the AST/OASC tests.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
NDW, it is true.
Essentially the A-C (B) is a filter. It is the same with universities specifying the grades at A-level. The nearer you are to the base line, be it GCSE, A-level, or Fat score, the lower the prospects of reaching the frontline.
That said, your results are not the final arbiter, you are, try hard and you will succeed.
Essentially the A-C (B) is a filter. It is the same with universities specifying the grades at A-level. The nearer you are to the base line, be it GCSE, A-level, or Fat score, the lower the prospects of reaching the frontline.
That said, your results are not the final arbiter, you are, try hard and you will succeed.
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Speed Distance Time etc
Just wondering if anyone has a few SDT examples/internet websites based on aircraft closing speeds?
A bit like the terrible example below.
i.e Aircraft A is flying at 400 MPH, Aircraft B is flying at 200 MPH, if they're X distance apart how long...
Apologies if this has been posted before. I've looked online but I can't seem to find any similar to the above.
Cheers!
Chris
A bit like the terrible example below.
i.e Aircraft A is flying at 400 MPH, Aircraft B is flying at 200 MPH, if they're X distance apart how long...
Apologies if this has been posted before. I've looked online but I can't seem to find any similar to the above.
Cheers!
Chris
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Christian, that question would work but better in knots. Better yet at 420 kts and 180 or 240 knots. Play around with those numbers and see if you can figure why. There is probably references to these in this thread.
As for web tests, you don't need that, just make up your questions, work them out mentally then check your answers in slower time.
For example, you are in your car, you are doing 54 mph, you have 9 miles to go - how long to get there, what time will you get there, what fuel will you need assuming 30 mpg. Your journey is 210 miles. What is your eta? How much fuel? Hint - you buy fuel in litres.
Then consider that eta and recalculate the speed required for a different eta.
Real world, on the hoof, SDT will beat CBT every time.
As an aside, a good few years ago there was an advert for the RAF. You had to establish the time to intercept an inbound bomber. You had to consider speeds, fuel, distances to target, intercept and tanker. It was a superb intellectual exercise and pilots and navigators came up with different answers, all accurate but some better than others.
As for web tests, you don't need that, just make up your questions, work them out mentally then check your answers in slower time.
For example, you are in your car, you are doing 54 mph, you have 9 miles to go - how long to get there, what time will you get there, what fuel will you need assuming 30 mpg. Your journey is 210 miles. What is your eta? How much fuel? Hint - you buy fuel in litres.
Then consider that eta and recalculate the speed required for a different eta.
Real world, on the hoof, SDT will beat CBT every time.
As an aside, a good few years ago there was an advert for the RAF. You had to establish the time to intercept an inbound bomber. You had to consider speeds, fuel, distances to target, intercept and tanker. It was a superb intellectual exercise and pilots and navigators came up with different answers, all accurate but some better than others.
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Hey guys,
As part of my revision for my application (combined with rampant procrastination), I made a little chart which details most* of the flying squadrons of the RAF, FAA and AAC. I'm sorry for any of the many mistakes I'm sure are in there, it's just designed to be a general overview and a revision aid. Just thought I'd post it here in case anyone else found it helpful ... I know all the information is readily available online, it was just easier for me to have it all in one place. Hope it helps!
*Hopefully. No responsibility accepted for incompetence.
The larger size is here:
http://www.dropbox.com/s/148pa5hsmld...drons.png?dl=1
As part of my revision for my application (combined with rampant procrastination), I made a little chart which details most* of the flying squadrons of the RAF, FAA and AAC. I'm sorry for any of the many mistakes I'm sure are in there, it's just designed to be a general overview and a revision aid. Just thought I'd post it here in case anyone else found it helpful ... I know all the information is readily available online, it was just easier for me to have it all in one place. Hope it helps!
*Hopefully. No responsibility accepted for incompetence.
The larger size is here:
http://www.dropbox.com/s/148pa5hsmld...drons.png?dl=1
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
I think you posted the larger size here. Please reduce size or delete and just post a link.
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Cheers PN!
I'll have a play around with different numbers, see where I get up to.
The only relevance I see with those numbers 180 Kts, 240 Kts etc is that they're factors of 60?
Do you know of any examples I could find similar to that on the aptitude tests?
Thanks,
Chris
I'll have a play around with different numbers, see where I get up to.
The only relevance I see with those numbers 180 Kts, 240 Kts etc is that they're factors of 60?
Do you know of any examples I could find similar to that on the aptitude tests?
Thanks,
Chris
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Christian, well done, now figure out why I chose those values.
No, just work your own examples.
You pass a road sign giving distance to go, how long etc, it is both easy and keeps you wake.
No, just work your own examples.
You pass a road sign giving distance to go, how long etc, it is both easy and keeps you wake.