S-92 to deliver UK SAR-H service
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TOTALLY agree about the weather and everything else that would be wrong about a "real" international airport.
The real reason for the move is CASH !!!
Prestwick want too much money from the new supplier. They have fleeced the Navy Cash Cow for too long, and are about to get sour milk!
The real reason for the move is CASH !!!
Prestwick want too much money from the new supplier. They have fleeced the Navy Cash Cow for too long, and are about to get sour milk!
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This is one of the distinctions between HEMS and Air Ambulance
Certainly in this part of the world the same airframe (G-HEMS at the moment) does both roles i.e. attends emergencies and is used for hospital transfers!
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some of the east coast from Glasgow?
(during the recent floods Chivenor even attended)
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Confused now. I was always under the impression that HEMS was the generic term for the Air Ambulance services (charities)
Certainly in this part of the world the same airframe (G-HEMS at the moment) does both roles i.e. attends emergencies and is used for hospital transfers!
Certainly in this part of the world the same airframe (G-HEMS at the moment) does both roles i.e. attends emergencies and is used for hospital transfers!
A Rescue is a transfer of a person or persons from a hostile environment to a safe environment.
A CASEVAC is the transfer of an injured person from a safe environment to a medical facility.
A MEDEVAC is the transfer of an injured person from one medical facility to another medical facility.
Does it matter ? Yes indeed because in the UK it all depends on who pays for it.
Gannet SAR flight is the busiest SAR flight in the country. However, most of their jobs are CASEVACs or MEDEVACs. Now, that doesn't demean the fact that they are busy in any shape or form, thats just the way it is. But, does this contract (when it is written) allow for the new SAR aircraft to conduct CASEVAC and MEDEVAC ? i.e. if a lady is pregnant and she lives on the isle of Arran - is the new SAR cab going to scramble from Glasgow (in $hitty Weather - and fly under the Bridge) to go and transfer her to a hospital. At the moment the answer is yes. What will be the answer in 3 years time?
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SAR Statistics
Make of this what you will.
Defence Analytical Services and Advice: Annual Military Search and Rescue Statistics
Sun
Defence Analytical Services and Advice: Annual Military Search and Rescue Statistics
Sun
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The Glasgow move can be seen as fairly reasonable. Most call-outs head up that way - and quite a significant amount of them have to go pick up docs from the SECC carpark anyway!
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I'm almost in agreement. My issue with the move is purely social. The CO of HMS Gannet is a Lt Cdr WAFU. It is the only job in the RN where the CO is a Lt Cdr WAFU. CO Gannet SAR flight is probably one of the best jobs in the RN....certainly one of the best jobs a wafu can aspire to.
Gannet has no military accommodation and so all the boys live ashore on the Scambro scheme - Fab...a complete win.
Gannet SAR flight is unique in so much as they boys there have little if any secondary duties. They don't have Duties to do, No division (bar a small cadre). The local run ashore (Ayr) is pretty hoofing ....some good pubs.
In essence, Gannet SAR flight is one of the best jobs in the RN and sadly it is going. A shame....
But because HMS Gannet has another role.....will it be saved? How about we form a Squadron of Merlin.... Maybe we could call the new Squadron 819.... ????
Gannet has no military accommodation and so all the boys live ashore on the Scambro scheme - Fab...a complete win.
Gannet SAR flight is unique in so much as they boys there have little if any secondary duties. They don't have Duties to do, No division (bar a small cadre). The local run ashore (Ayr) is pretty hoofing ....some good pubs.
In essence, Gannet SAR flight is one of the best jobs in the RN and sadly it is going. A shame....
But because HMS Gannet has another role.....will it be saved? How about we form a Squadron of Merlin.... Maybe we could call the new Squadron 819.... ????
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"If Boulmer is going to be day only,are they thinking about trying to cover some of the east coast from Glasgow?"
Why not? Each unit cover jobs in the others "area" anyway. so why would it be any different - if the ARCC need some one they will surely task the nearest suitable asset. Prestwick have already been on the east coast and infact just off Boulmer in the past. Likewise Boulmer come over to the west coast if Prestwick are out of area.
" is the new SAR cab going to scramble from Glasgow (in $hitty Weather - and fly under the Bridge) to go and transfer her to a hospital. At the moment the answer is yes. What will be the answer in 3 years time? "
Why not (again)? why fly under the bridge when the S92 could climb out IFR then let down over the water?
Why not? Each unit cover jobs in the others "area" anyway. so why would it be any different - if the ARCC need some one they will surely task the nearest suitable asset. Prestwick have already been on the east coast and infact just off Boulmer in the past. Likewise Boulmer come over to the west coast if Prestwick are out of area.
" is the new SAR cab going to scramble from Glasgow (in $hitty Weather - and fly under the Bridge) to go and transfer her to a hospital. At the moment the answer is yes. What will be the answer in 3 years time? "
Why not (again)? why fly under the bridge when the S92 could climb out IFR then let down over the water?
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How sad for the local MPs. All they are concerned about with the move is the 'loss of jobs' and loss of business to the little corner shop nearby. Pull your heads out and look at the advantages of the proposed relocation - closer to 4 of the most commonly used hospitals (RAH, Southern General, Golden Jubilee & the Childrens one [forget the name of it]). Instead of Seaking boys coming out of Prestwick and gingerly navigating the A737 to get to the Southern General to pick up doctors then go on scene, the doctors can quickly drive to the new SAR base and get on with the other crews - and launch straight out. Screw your corner shop, thats just a matter of life.
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The SAR-H programme is all about value for money over the 30 year contract -so where possible you don't spend money you don't need to if its not in the customer's requirements, or contract yourself into uncertainty which might lead to unexpected bills. Once the contract is signed- thats it for the 30 years! So if a base is forecast to be too expensive (particularly as compared to the other 11) - best you move down the road to no effect on SAR ops but immense improvement in cost of operation.
As for medevacs - yes they are in the requirement too...once in the publc domain people will be surprised just how detailed the requirements are and how demanding (rightly so) they are on the contractor. That said - as the air ambulance system improves further (perhaps in to night ops) than the requirement on the SAR-H service may reduce - we shall see. Remember too that the NHS/DofH pays the MoD/DfT for the Medevac service using SAR heloe (mostly at night) and has done for many years - so that will not change either.
As for Chiv and Boulmer on daylight only - the rescue stats for many years show a very limited need for night ops close to those bases compared with all the other (high risk) areas in the UK which are closer to the other 10 bases. Indeed most of the time the rescue provision is by our immensely capable RNLI (we have more lifeboats per coastal mile than any other nation on earth and they do 20 times more maritme rescues than the SAR helo service per annum)) and the coast guard cliff rescue teams, as well as ever increasing police and air ambulance assets. In a contracting game where value for money is all to the customer it is essential that "non essential" resources are not scoped into the contract which over 30 years would add considerably to the cost.....in a fixed price (inflation proofed) budget which although very large is not open ended. While I personally think HMG should have paid for a 24 hr service out of these places as a contingency but it looks as though this is not going to happen unless the incoming government is prepared to fund the SAR-H budget by the few percent more to make it so. Remember if it were to happen there would be a need for a few more aircrews, relevant spares holdings and probably at least 1 more aircraft....so it is in the multi million cost arena over 30 years).
What we also don't know yet is how many cabs will be in the total Soteria SAR-H S92 fleet -so that will indicate what flexibility there might be to generate additonal ac beyond the 12 that will be on nominal standby across the UK. I think most people will be impressed with the availabilty requirements placed on Soteria from its standby aircraft, and what penalties are in the contract to incentivise availability levels way above that previously achieved by single aircaft at each base. For years excellent military first standby aircraft availability has always relied on the use of 2 or sometimes 3 aircraft (or more in the RN's case!) at each base ....a much better ratio is achieveable with modern platforms operating under a EASA approved engineering regime. Watch this space.....
Cheers
As for medevacs - yes they are in the requirement too...once in the publc domain people will be surprised just how detailed the requirements are and how demanding (rightly so) they are on the contractor. That said - as the air ambulance system improves further (perhaps in to night ops) than the requirement on the SAR-H service may reduce - we shall see. Remember too that the NHS/DofH pays the MoD/DfT for the Medevac service using SAR heloe (mostly at night) and has done for many years - so that will not change either.
As for Chiv and Boulmer on daylight only - the rescue stats for many years show a very limited need for night ops close to those bases compared with all the other (high risk) areas in the UK which are closer to the other 10 bases. Indeed most of the time the rescue provision is by our immensely capable RNLI (we have more lifeboats per coastal mile than any other nation on earth and they do 20 times more maritme rescues than the SAR helo service per annum)) and the coast guard cliff rescue teams, as well as ever increasing police and air ambulance assets. In a contracting game where value for money is all to the customer it is essential that "non essential" resources are not scoped into the contract which over 30 years would add considerably to the cost.....in a fixed price (inflation proofed) budget which although very large is not open ended. While I personally think HMG should have paid for a 24 hr service out of these places as a contingency but it looks as though this is not going to happen unless the incoming government is prepared to fund the SAR-H budget by the few percent more to make it so. Remember if it were to happen there would be a need for a few more aircrews, relevant spares holdings and probably at least 1 more aircraft....so it is in the multi million cost arena over 30 years).
What we also don't know yet is how many cabs will be in the total Soteria SAR-H S92 fleet -so that will indicate what flexibility there might be to generate additonal ac beyond the 12 that will be on nominal standby across the UK. I think most people will be impressed with the availabilty requirements placed on Soteria from its standby aircraft, and what penalties are in the contract to incentivise availability levels way above that previously achieved by single aircaft at each base. For years excellent military first standby aircraft availability has always relied on the use of 2 or sometimes 3 aircraft (or more in the RN's case!) at each base ....a much better ratio is achieveable with modern platforms operating under a EASA approved engineering regime. Watch this space.....
Cheers
Last edited by Tallsar; 10th Feb 2010 at 20:16.
Lets have less of that Midget bashing!
CG
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Quote:
'Gannet SAR flight is unique in so much as they boys there have little if any secondary duties. They don't have Duties to do, No division (bar a small cadre). The local run ashore (Ayr) is pretty hoofing ....some good pubs.
In essence, Gannet SAR flight is one of the best jobs in the RN and sadly it is going. A shame....'
Sounds a lot like the standard life for your average crab pilot!!!
Good to see that the grass will be maintained greener for the light blue!
'Gannet SAR flight is unique in so much as they boys there have little if any secondary duties. They don't have Duties to do, No division (bar a small cadre). The local run ashore (Ayr) is pretty hoofing ....some good pubs.
In essence, Gannet SAR flight is one of the best jobs in the RN and sadly it is going. A shame....'
Sounds a lot like the standard life for your average crab pilot!!!
Good to see that the grass will be maintained greener for the light blue!
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This is one of the distinctions between HEMS and Air Ambulance
Confused now. I was always under the impression that HEMS was the generic term for the Air Ambulance services (charities)
Certainly in this part of the world the same airframe (G-HEMS at the moment) does both roles i.e. attends emergencies and is used for hospital transfers!
Confused now. I was always under the impression that HEMS was the generic term for the Air Ambulance services (charities)
Certainly in this part of the world the same airframe (G-HEMS at the moment) does both roles i.e. attends emergencies and is used for hospital transfers!
The difference is that if you are landing on a HEMS mission (life or limb saving) the you can land in a 2D site. If you are on AA then you can't. there are other differences as well but that is how I was taught to interpret the rules.
Air Ambulances doing transfers - does the charity get any money? I think the ambulance service does but not sure whether the charity does or not
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Air Ambulances doing transfers - does the charity get any money? I think the ambulance service does but not sure whether the charity does or not
(I've heard a figure of £3k mentioned from here to the NE)
Any flight (including transfers, organ movement and carriage of medical staff) can be done as HEMS, where immediate and rapid transportation is essential. Anything else is "air ambulance" and is a normal public transport task.
Our local HEMS charity does not charge for any HEMS transfers (or 'air ambulance' transfers, if the casualty is resident in the funding area of the charity). 'Air ambulance' transfers of non residents to other parts of the country are charged by the charity.
Our local HEMS charity does not charge for any HEMS transfers (or 'air ambulance' transfers, if the casualty is resident in the funding area of the charity). 'Air ambulance' transfers of non residents to other parts of the country are charged by the charity.
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It's interesting to note that since the announcement that Chivenor is going to a 12 hour service in 2012 the Devon AA has started a big campaign (supported by BBC Radio Devon) to raise funds to try & buy a new & faster Helo to replace the Bo105 that is based in north Devon , any connection there ?
If it's going to be a 12 hour daylight service only , what happens in winter when we perhaps have only 7 or 8 hours of daylight & in the summer we may have as much as 16 hours per day ?
If it's going to be a 12 hour daylight service only , what happens in winter when we perhaps have only 7 or 8 hours of daylight & in the summer we may have as much as 16 hours per day ?