Brown goes into battle with billions for defence - Times headline
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Brown goes into battle with billions for defence - Times headline
The Prime Minister will use the launch of a Green Paper on the future of the Armed Forces to promise a new generation of warships and fast jets over the coming decade. He will also guarantee an extra £1.5 billion for the war in Afghanistan, and promise to safeguard defence spending from any cuts next year.
His pledges will include:
• going ahead with two 65,000-tonne aircraft carriers at a cost of £5 billion;
• maintaining troop numbers in the Army at more than 100,000; and
• committing a future government to the Joint Strike Fighter, costing £10 billion, and completing the £20 billion Typhoon programme.
If they do get in though there will be no point in holding a SDR!
Brown goes into battle with billions for defence - Times Online
Britain's defence policy: what can we afford? - Times Online
Britain and France’s military entente strained by opposing outlooks - Times Online
MS:
He may be (well up to the election anyway), but I don't think that awfully nice David is.
Perhaps we shouldn't take this story too seriously though, Mick, coming as it does from some minor provincial rag!
Forgive me Gordon. Arent we commited to those already?
Perhaps we shouldn't take this story too seriously though, Mick, coming as it does from some minor provincial rag!
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Pure electioneering by a man who couldnt give a toss for the military. The telling comment was "something will have to give elsewhere". But what?
And these are all shiny kit projects, capital projects. All designed to provide industry jobs, particularly in sensitive constituencies rather than delivering capability. As one of the experts says:
“...if the discussion is erudite, serious and conducted by intelligent people, it should at least make sure that the choice of equipment and the posture of the UK is the optimum one based on the most likely scenarios of the potential threats rather than the short cut of eliminating one procurement programme to make the figures match the spending caps of the Treasury,” he said. “That is the distinction between a good defence review and a naff defence review.”
The only stated policy I've seen so far that makes any sense going forward is from UKIP. The Tories havent come out with anything, waiting to see which way the wind blows... and Labour have shown exactly what their opinion of the military is.
Hopefully, people will see through this sham for thats what it is.
And these are all shiny kit projects, capital projects. All designed to provide industry jobs, particularly in sensitive constituencies rather than delivering capability. As one of the experts says:
“...if the discussion is erudite, serious and conducted by intelligent people, it should at least make sure that the choice of equipment and the posture of the UK is the optimum one based on the most likely scenarios of the potential threats rather than the short cut of eliminating one procurement programme to make the figures match the spending caps of the Treasury,” he said. “That is the distinction between a good defence review and a naff defence review.”
The only stated policy I've seen so far that makes any sense going forward is from UKIP. The Tories havent come out with anything, waiting to see which way the wind blows... and Labour have shown exactly what their opinion of the military is.
Hopefully, people will see through this sham for thats what it is.
Jabba_TG12,
This really is the funniest and most ludicrous use of the English language I think I have ever seen on Pprune.
"The only stated policy I've seen so far that makes any sense going forward is from UKIP."
Thanks I needed a laugh!!
****
This really is the funniest and most ludicrous use of the English language I think I have ever seen on Pprune.
"The only stated policy I've seen so far that makes any sense going forward is from UKIP."
Thanks I needed a laugh!!
****
Just another erk
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vecvechookattack:
thats a good idea, can we do it now?
we end up with a hung parliament
Last edited by ArthurR; 1st Feb 2010 at 09:39. Reason: forgot a bit
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"How much further would the FDR go in that case?"
Still the 3000ft spanning the Hudson between Poughkeepsie and Highland, I guess.
However, Broon has now completely undermined the 'blank sheet of paper' that the SDR should have been in pre-determining its findings.
It is a nice piece of politics though; he throws bones to the Chiefs of Staffs and the UK defence industry in one swift platitude.
Still the 3000ft spanning the Hudson between Poughkeepsie and Highland, I guess.
However, Broon has now completely undermined the 'blank sheet of paper' that the SDR should have been in pre-determining its findings.
It is a nice piece of politics though; he throws bones to the Chiefs of Staffs and the UK defence industry in one swift platitude.
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Pr00ne:
Thou mayest taketh the p1ss, but read below and see if theres anything you may find serious disagreement with:
Defence Stated Aims:
"To defend our national interests, maintain the NATO alliance, support our traditional partners. To disentangle our forces from the EU To keep our independence by retaining – always – ultimate command and control over our national forces.
Now. I never said that the proposals were either totally realistic or fundable.
What I did say was the only policy I've seen that makes any sense going forward.
I have seen nothing from Labour save for rank electioneering. What have you seen?
I have seen even less meat on the bones from Cameron. What have you seen?
And as for the Lib Dums...
UKIP appear to have at least, if nothing else said this is what we think our domestic and overseas obligations are, this is where we think things have gone pear shaped to now, this is how much extra we will spend and this is what we're going to do with it.
We'll all get the chance in a few months to put our ticks in the boxes. Personally, I dont think their wider manifesto of Little Englander policies are what the nation needs and although Europe does need reform, that is likely to be achieved more from within than without. I'm not convinced of their economic doctrine either.
Just as well I've almost completed my emigration.
But at least someone has thought these aims through and has stuck a flag in the sand. I challenge you to find another party who's manifesto (if they've got one) will at least allow our still-serving bretheren to be able to function without being either volunteered for every p1ss-pot conflict that is on the face of the earth as well as being cover for striking firemen, or being bled dry and tossed on the scrapheap.
Whaddya say?
Thou mayest taketh the p1ss, but read below and see if theres anything you may find serious disagreement with:
Defence Stated Aims:
"To defend our national interests, maintain the NATO alliance, support our traditional partners. To disentangle our forces from the EU To keep our independence by retaining – always – ultimate command and control over our national forces.
- To stop trying to buy defence on the cheap. UKIP will spend an extra 1% GDP year on defence – an increase of 40% on current budgets. UKIP believes in establishing a defence budget which will properly sustain Britain’s defence commitments. To keep defence costs down by smarter defence procurement, and with more involvement of British industry wherever possible.
- To increase the Army to at least 125,000 personnel (trained requirement) in order to enable it to cope with its existing deployment and roles. To double the Territorial Army in size from 37,000 to 75,000 soldiers.
- To restore the Navy to its 2001 strength, with 3 new aircraft carriers (one extra), assault ships, 30 destroyers and frigates, 12 Fleet Submarines, 25 coastal vessels and 50 Merlin helicopters, with around 7,000 extra personnel to 42,000 (2003–41,550). UKIP would guarantee the futures of Plymouth, Portsmouth and Rosyth and not close any of these ports.
- To increase the Air Force’s capabilities by enlarging the tanker fleet, modernising the transport fleet, buying more helicopters and 50 extra JSF aircraft, and increasing RAF personnel to 50,000.
- To restore many traditional regiments, such as the Black Watch and Staffords, subsumed as battalions of EU-inspired ‘super-regional’ regiments such as the Royal Welsh, Royal Mercian and Royal Regiment of Scotland, in order to serve in EU battlegroups.
- To renew the Covenant between the Country and those who are asked to risk their lives on its behalf: through better pay, generous compensation for injury, restoration of Crown immunity, private medical and dental care, reinstatement of military hospitals, decent accommodation, an offence of treason for those UK citizens who seriously attack serving personnel, and above all, respect and support.
- To reappraise our operations in Afghanistan to a single mission.
- To maintain Britain’s independent nuclear deterrent with existing Trident submarines, and to replace them with four British built US missile armed submarines.
- To retain and increase Army and Territorial Army personnel by pay, free medical and dental care for them and their families, retention ‘warrants’, school recruitment and other incentives.
Now. I never said that the proposals were either totally realistic or fundable.
What I did say was the only policy I've seen that makes any sense going forward.
I have seen nothing from Labour save for rank electioneering. What have you seen?
I have seen even less meat on the bones from Cameron. What have you seen?
And as for the Lib Dums...
UKIP appear to have at least, if nothing else said this is what we think our domestic and overseas obligations are, this is where we think things have gone pear shaped to now, this is how much extra we will spend and this is what we're going to do with it.
We'll all get the chance in a few months to put our ticks in the boxes. Personally, I dont think their wider manifesto of Little Englander policies are what the nation needs and although Europe does need reform, that is likely to be achieved more from within than without. I'm not convinced of their economic doctrine either.
Just as well I've almost completed my emigration.
But at least someone has thought these aims through and has stuck a flag in the sand. I challenge you to find another party who's manifesto (if they've got one) will at least allow our still-serving bretheren to be able to function without being either volunteered for every p1ss-pot conflict that is on the face of the earth as well as being cover for striking firemen, or being bled dry and tossed on the scrapheap.
Whaddya say?
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Yep, Labrador I accept that. Which is how we've ended up with Gordon's Green Paper.
Doesnt mean that those who do have a chance should keep their powder too dry for too long though. At some point they have to tell us. Neither of them have done that convincingly as yet.
Doesnt mean that those who do have a chance should keep their powder too dry for too long though. At some point they have to tell us. Neither of them have done that convincingly as yet.
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Then why hasn't Broon said anything serious yet??
Even he must admit he's got 2 hopes of being elected, and one's called Bob.
(He can't be re-elected, as he was never elected in the first place)
Even he must admit he's got 2 hopes of being elected, and one's called Bob.
(He can't be re-elected, as he was never elected in the first place
)
Jabba_TG12,
Whadda I say?
Well, to be totally honest, I am surprised, very surprised. Whilst hoping for three carriers is just silly, restoring old Regiments is sentimental claptrap and ignores the fact that it was the Army themselves who proposed the Regimental amalgamations as the existing Regiments could never meet their recruitment targets, and to target 50 extra JSF aircraft for the RAF before we have committed to ANY beyond the three trial a/c is also silly, what they ask for is not a million miles away from the 1997 SDR force level.
I must admit that, knowing the extreme silliness of that party, I was expecting to see such tripe as "invade France" "bomb Zimbabwe" and "restore conscription."
Good luck with your emigration. Unless you are off to the US wherever you are going will have equally bad if not worse defence funding issues.
Whadda I say?
Well, to be totally honest, I am surprised, very surprised. Whilst hoping for three carriers is just silly, restoring old Regiments is sentimental claptrap and ignores the fact that it was the Army themselves who proposed the Regimental amalgamations as the existing Regiments could never meet their recruitment targets, and to target 50 extra JSF aircraft for the RAF before we have committed to ANY beyond the three trial a/c is also silly, what they ask for is not a million miles away from the 1997 SDR force level.
I must admit that, knowing the extreme silliness of that party, I was expecting to see such tripe as "invade France" "bomb Zimbabwe" and "restore conscription."
Good luck with your emigration. Unless you are off to the US wherever you are going will have equally bad if not worse defence funding issues.
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Cheers Pr00ne.
Thats why I was careful to add the "I didnt say that they were either totally realstic or fundable" caveat.
Not emigrating that far, only Belgium. Higher taxes, but (arguably) better beer.
Thats why I was careful to add the "I didnt say that they were either totally realstic or fundable" caveat.
Not emigrating that far, only Belgium. Higher taxes, but (arguably) better beer.
Well in that case I'll wish you good luck as well, Jabba. You'll need it. All are equal in Belgium, the Belgians rather more so than others!
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Indeed Chug, as I'm duly finding out! 
One of the first things that was said to me on arrival here was "you may think the British invented bureaucracy... but trust me, the Belgians have polished it to a fine sheen"
Thats kind of set the scene, but... nah, all things said and done, so far so good.
One of the first things that was said to me on arrival here was "you may think the British invented bureaucracy... but trust me, the Belgians have polished it to a fine sheen"
Thats kind of set the scene, but... nah, all things said and done, so far so good.
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Found this by chance in the internet. Lyric at 1.20 says it all.....
Gordon is a Moron
What hope of a future have we?
MB
Gordon is a Moron
What hope of a future have we?
MB
