Lyneham Closure, Westminster Hall Debate 6 Jan 2010
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Took me a while to find the relevant section, perhaps this helps...
".....After a brief spell on the Directing Staff on the Advanced Command and Staff Course at JSCSC Shrivenham, he (Ian Elliott), was promoted to Gp Capt and took up an appointment as Gp Capt Strategic Plans at HQSTC. During this tour he authored the Strategic Review of Brize Norton and Lyneham (which resulted in RAF Lyneham’s planned closure) and completed a major review of all Air Combat Service Support Unit basing. He also led the Defence Airfield Review Team......"
".....After a brief spell on the Directing Staff on the Advanced Command and Staff Course at JSCSC Shrivenham, he (Ian Elliott), was promoted to Gp Capt and took up an appointment as Gp Capt Strategic Plans at HQSTC. During this tour he authored the Strategic Review of Brize Norton and Lyneham (which resulted in RAF Lyneham’s planned closure) and completed a major review of all Air Combat Service Support Unit basing. He also led the Defence Airfield Review Team......"
that explains it.......
....who is also a thoroughly nice chap indeed, quite unlike the chiselling $hits normally encountered at such levels.
The fact that, thanks to nuLabor liars bankrupting the defence budget, the forthcoming defence review wasn't on Ian's horizon when he authored the report should, one would have thought, at least cause one or two of the RAF's grown ups to hold up the 'STOP!!' sign.
The fact that, thanks to nuLabor liars bankrupting the defence budget, the forthcoming defence review wasn't on Ian's horizon when he authored the report should, one would have thought, at least cause one or two of the RAF's grown ups to hold up the 'STOP!!' sign.
Took me a while to find the relevant section, perhaps this helps...
".....After a brief spell on the Directing Staff on the Advanced Command and Staff Course at JSCSC Shrivenham, he (Ian Elliott), was promoted to Gp Capt and took up an appointment as Gp Capt Strategic Plans at HQSTC. During this tour he authored the Strategic Review of Brize Norton and Lyneham (which resulted in RAF Lyneham’s planned closure) and completed a major review of all Air Combat Service Support Unit basing. He also led the Defence Airfield Review Team......"
".....After a brief spell on the Directing Staff on the Advanced Command and Staff Course at JSCSC Shrivenham, he (Ian Elliott), was promoted to Gp Capt and took up an appointment as Gp Capt Strategic Plans at HQSTC. During this tour he authored the Strategic Review of Brize Norton and Lyneham (which resulted in RAF Lyneham’s planned closure) and completed a major review of all Air Combat Service Support Unit basing. He also led the Defence Airfield Review Team......"
A case of here's what we are going to do, now create a report that both supports the idea and reaches the same conclusion (it is irrelevent whether the report makes any sense or not, so long as the conclusion is the same as the political masters plan).
Peter
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I refer you back to my last post
stop the press
LYNEHAM CLOSING
and not everybody at lyn will move to bzn
so
i need a new job/post and so do most people on here, however nothing seems to be happening.......why
'cos they (the powers at be) are waiting to see, or already know and dont want to say, whats in the SDR and you can bet it's not going to be in either lyn or bzn personnels favour.
if i was a betting man, and im not, i would put money on
the K fleet retired in early 2011 (before the said move)
(the king is dead ,long live the king)
the J fleet cut to min numbers for the move to bzn
the bzn static display team (tristar) retired 2011
the VC10 fleet retired 2011
fsta contracts rewriten or scrapped
A400m still go ahead but with reduced numbers
C17 fleet increased awaiting the A400m apperance
centralized manpower, 'cos everbody knows techies can work longer and on more types for the same pay.....
rant over
stop the press
LYNEHAM CLOSING
and not everybody at lyn will move to bzn
so
i need a new job/post and so do most people on here, however nothing seems to be happening.......why
'cos they (the powers at be) are waiting to see, or already know and dont want to say, whats in the SDR and you can bet it's not going to be in either lyn or bzn personnels favour.
if i was a betting man, and im not, i would put money on
the K fleet retired in early 2011 (before the said move)
(the king is dead ,long live the king)
the J fleet cut to min numbers for the move to bzn
the bzn static display team (tristar) retired 2011
the VC10 fleet retired 2011
fsta contracts rewriten or scrapped
A400m still go ahead but with reduced numbers
C17 fleet increased awaiting the A400m apperance
centralized manpower, 'cos everbody knows techies can work longer and on more types for the same pay.....
rant over
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How about this?
1. The UK is locked into FSTA and A400M for more than just military reasons.
2. Withdrawl from Afghanistan indicated to be in the near future.
3. C-17 was originally supposed to be a short-term solution before arrival of A400M.
4. Other nations actively looking to buy C-17s (India).
Ergo....
C-17 gets sold, leaving an A400M/FSTA transport fleet (at Brize).
1. The UK is locked into FSTA and A400M for more than just military reasons.
2. Withdrawl from Afghanistan indicated to be in the near future.
3. C-17 was originally supposed to be a short-term solution before arrival of A400M.
4. Other nations actively looking to buy C-17s (India).
Ergo....
C-17 gets sold, leaving an A400M/FSTA transport fleet (at Brize).
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Lyneham ????
Oh joy !!!!! BBC1 News at Ten tonight saying that there is a possibility that Lyneham after closure could become a "Theme/Fun Park" similiar to Alton Towers, I know it was a fun place to be during my tour on the Hercs back in the late 70's but a theme park, can't see it could it be any more fun ??????. Paul H.
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Lyneham
BBC interviewed Eddie Shah who already has Wiltshire Hotel/Golf course interests thought would be a good idea to stimulate economy after RAF moves out, local councillers forecasting Wooton Basset would become a "ghost town" quoting Bath as an example after Colerne closed, although wouldn't exactly call Bath a ghost town would one ?, unable to find BBC link to above - will keep on trying & post later. PH
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Lyneham more likely to end up as military training unit for the army,
or
prison, sorry, holding unit, for all them people that get in here (blighty) on the back of a truck or in a container off a ferry that should really stay where the
they came from
rant off
or
prison, sorry, holding unit, for all them people that get in here (blighty) on the back of a truck or in a container off a ferry that should really stay where the
they came fromrant off
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I doubt very much Ian Elliott cares what happens to Lyneham either, his work is done.
Can't wait to see the result of the latest review announced by Liam Fox today, a cull of Top Brass. Wonder who will get the chance to author that one......
Can't wait to see the result of the latest review announced by Liam Fox today, a cull of Top Brass. Wonder who will get the chance to author that one......
Last edited by nigegilb; 13th Aug 2010 at 14:24.
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Go on Nige...
I'd double dog dare you...
Sadly, as we are all aware, those who would get the chop would retire gracefully to their fully furnished jobs with blue chip companies who have most benefitted from past contracts.
They have betrayed the service they joined, but as we have mentioned here before, a lack of selection/leadership has allowed the 'yes' men to flourish whilst those with backbone and a nerve to say no have been sidelined.
The FJ community has alot to answer to with regards to rest of the RAF.
IMHO it has been a long time coming....
5d2d
Sadly, as we are all aware, those who would get the chop would retire gracefully to their fully furnished jobs with blue chip companies who have most benefitted from past contracts.
They have betrayed the service they joined, but as we have mentioned here before, a lack of selection/leadership has allowed the 'yes' men to flourish whilst those with backbone and a nerve to say no have been sidelined.
The FJ community has alot to answer to with regards to rest of the RAF.
IMHO it has been a long time coming....
5d2d
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Oh deary, deary me, long range Maritime Patrol - GONE
Long range Search and Rescue - GONE
(Not like we're an island nation dependent on sea lines of communication is it?)
Now the tactical transport fleet is under sentence of death.
Top tip, let's just call it quits as far as the Royal Air Force is concerned, disband the lot, offer our apologies to Lord Trenchard's family, shut up shop and retire into obscurity to watch black and white films of the Battle of Britain and reminisce, after all what need have we for an Air Force in the modern world and, well, the past is the past eh?
Hey, here's a thought, why don't we put the whole defence of the nation out to private contract, after all if we get invaded/overrun/be compelled to speak a foreign language, we can always sue for breach of contract or failure under the Provision of Goods and Services Act, can't we?
For those of you who are intellectually challenged, I'm being ironic - well maybe!
Long range Search and Rescue - GONE
(Not like we're an island nation dependent on sea lines of communication is it?)
Now the tactical transport fleet is under sentence of death.
Top tip, let's just call it quits as far as the Royal Air Force is concerned, disband the lot, offer our apologies to Lord Trenchard's family, shut up shop and retire into obscurity to watch black and white films of the Battle of Britain and reminisce, after all what need have we for an Air Force in the modern world and, well, the past is the past eh?
Hey, here's a thought, why don't we put the whole defence of the nation out to private contract, after all if we get invaded/overrun/be compelled to speak a foreign language, we can always sue for breach of contract or failure under the Provision of Goods and Services Act, can't we?
For those of you who are intellectually challenged, I'm being ironic - well maybe!
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I remember being sat in AOC 2s office telling him why I was against the 2006 deployment into Afg. He was aghast.... It now looks as though our expensive involvement in Afg at the same time as trying to pay for a ridiculously inflated big ticket capital program has cost us dear. 7 million a year to run an air station is peanuts. I don't necessarily blame the army for grabbing more than their share when they have lost out in the past, but they are displaying alarming narrowness of thinking.
This present generation of senior officers, including the likes of Elliott, the author of the paper, have sold the Air Force down the line for the benefit of their own careers and an unwillingness to say no.
As you say, when all is said and done, we will be reliant on Europe for many capabilities in a few short years time. They weren't very reliable last time were they? And they haven't been reliable allies in Afg either. I am also ashamed, that a so called, Conservative led coalition is being equally blinkered. I suspect the RAF is about to be reduced beyond critical mass.
This present generation of senior officers, including the likes of Elliott, the author of the paper, have sold the Air Force down the line for the benefit of their own careers and an unwillingness to say no.
As you say, when all is said and done, we will be reliant on Europe for many capabilities in a few short years time. They weren't very reliable last time were they? And they haven't been reliable allies in Afg either. I am also ashamed, that a so called, Conservative led coalition is being equally blinkered. I suspect the RAF is about to be reduced beyond critical mass.
Last edited by nigegilb; 14th Aug 2010 at 08:01.
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Nige,
I don't disagree with most of your sentiment, but I have say to say that you are wrong about Ian Elliott. He was just about the best bloke to have reached air rank that I know. I suspect the brief he was given had a required outcome of recommending the closure of eitther LYE or BZZ. We all know that faced with that particular Hobson's choice, there could be only one outcome.
Anyway, with an Airbus-only transport fleet of 9 A330s and 20-ish A400s I would not be able to argue against a single-base policy.
I don't disagree with most of your sentiment, but I have say to say that you are wrong about Ian Elliott. He was just about the best bloke to have reached air rank that I know. I suspect the brief he was given had a required outcome of recommending the closure of eitther LYE or BZZ. We all know that faced with that particular Hobson's choice, there could be only one outcome.
Anyway, with an Airbus-only transport fleet of 9 A330s and 20-ish A400s I would not be able to argue against a single-base policy.
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I don't know the man, but clearly, he impressed many people during his time at Brize. Perhaps we should apply under FOI to see the paper and learn more about the circumstances surrounding it. Difficult to see how it could be recommended that either Brize or Lyneham should close before a feasibility study was carried out. And decisions about the viability of Hercules J have not been taken yet, as they are forming part of SDR. Remember the decision to close Lyneham was made BEFORE the SDR process.
I agree with your sentiment about an all Airbus fleet. But that would involve at the very least a serious capability gap and most likely a long term one and I doubt that Fox would put his name to such a decision.
I have no interest in whether Ian Elliott is a good guy or otherwise. If he is so sharp, I don't believe for a second that he didn't realise the consequences of what he was doing. Many people on here said Torpy was a good guy..
I agree with your sentiment about an all Airbus fleet. But that would involve at the very least a serious capability gap and most likely a long term one and I doubt that Fox would put his name to such a decision.
I have no interest in whether Ian Elliott is a good guy or otherwise. If he is so sharp, I don't believe for a second that he didn't realise the consequences of what he was doing. Many people on here said Torpy was a good guy..
Last edited by nigegilb; 14th Aug 2010 at 10:03.