USA Army Airship for Afghanistan ISR
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This is the sort of technology the UK Police Force will soon be using to monitor important stuff like illegal parking, parking on double yellow lines and fly tipping.
It won't of course fly anywhere near Birmingham in case it's spotted from the top of one of the mosques and upsets one of the settlers in our once Green and Pleasant Land.
It won't of course fly anywhere near Birmingham in case it's spotted from the top of one of the mosques and upsets one of the settlers in our once Green and Pleasant Land.
Right, just to finish off the "there's no wind in Afghanistan" debate, I've been to the Met Off and got the following data from their MIDAS database on average wind speeds:
Location: KANDAHAR
Lat/Long: 3133N 06551E
Elevation: 1010 Metres
300MB/30000ft
Month Wind(Kts) Temperature(C)
Jan 270/60 -41.3
Feb 270/63 -39.8
Mar 270/51 -39.7
Apr 270/41 -37.9
May 270/41 -34.5
Jun 270/28 -26.3
Jul 270/14 -23.5
Aug 270/16 -24.5
Sep 270/24 -28.1
Oct 270/44 -34.5
Nov 270/51 -39.3
Dec 270/52 -39.9
Now these are "average winds", so I'm expecting about +/- 30kts on a daily basis as the normal for these wind ranges over the 28-31 day months. Also, as I stated before, "the 'Seistan' or 'the winds of 120 days' that can blow up to 100mph for up to 4 months between May and Sep in Eastern Iran and South West Afghanistan, all at ground level", will account for the months of May to Sep when the wind isn't blowing at height.
Luckily for the Americans they have much money to waste on this, which is another mad-cap and already proven unwise venture such as this. We, however, in the UK do not. I understand that Mr Gerald Howarth MP may have been already been briefed on the HAV/LEMV and been given the Company "Sales Pitch" (which gets the wind prediction quite wrong or ignores them!). If that is true, then please Minister, leave this scheme well alone as there is a long and distinguished line of others that have been taken in by the airship notion over the past 40 years.
Sorry to resurrect the thread but it has taken a while to get the stats from the Met Off.
"Tenacious, Moi?"
The B Word
Location: KANDAHAR
Lat/Long: 3133N 06551E
Elevation: 1010 Metres
300MB/30000ft
Month Wind(Kts) Temperature(C)
Jan 270/60 -41.3
Feb 270/63 -39.8
Mar 270/51 -39.7
Apr 270/41 -37.9
May 270/41 -34.5
Jun 270/28 -26.3
Jul 270/14 -23.5
Aug 270/16 -24.5
Sep 270/24 -28.1
Oct 270/44 -34.5
Nov 270/51 -39.3
Dec 270/52 -39.9
Now these are "average winds", so I'm expecting about +/- 30kts on a daily basis as the normal for these wind ranges over the 28-31 day months. Also, as I stated before, "the 'Seistan' or 'the winds of 120 days' that can blow up to 100mph for up to 4 months between May and Sep in Eastern Iran and South West Afghanistan, all at ground level", will account for the months of May to Sep when the wind isn't blowing at height.
Luckily for the Americans they have much money to waste on this, which is another mad-cap and already proven unwise venture such as this. We, however, in the UK do not. I understand that Mr Gerald Howarth MP may have been already been briefed on the HAV/LEMV and been given the Company "Sales Pitch" (which gets the wind prediction quite wrong or ignores them!). If that is true, then please Minister, leave this scheme well alone as there is a long and distinguished line of others that have been taken in by the airship notion over the past 40 years.
Sorry to resurrect the thread but it has taken a while to get the stats from the Met Off.
"Tenacious, Moi?"
The B Word
This link has some details that I have not seen before:
Northrop Grumman To Fly Surveillance Airship | AVIATION WEEK
"Maximum transit speed is 80 kt., the vehicle slowing to 30 kt. for station-keeping"
Northrop Grumman To Fly Surveillance Airship | AVIATION WEEK
"Maximum transit speed is 80 kt., the vehicle slowing to 30 kt. for station-keeping"
Looking at the winds above I cannot see how it can station keep at 30kts - it would be going backwards!!!!
I guess this is the start of the realisation process that the concept is flawed?!!
Luckily, the US have only signed up for concept demonstration phase - Cardington will be under new ownership (again!) in 3-5 years time.
LJ
I guess this is the start of the realisation process that the concept is flawed?!!
Luckily, the US have only signed up for concept demonstration phase - Cardington will be under new ownership (again!) in 3-5 years time.
LJ
"The Army wanted a vehicle that could be delivered within 18 months, so Northrop Grumman looked for a low-risk design and an experienced partner, says Metzger. The companies that preceded HAV developed the Skyship 500 and 600 commercial airships and the Sentinel 1000, a half-scale demonstrator for a U.S. Navy airborne early-warning airship that never materialized."
Says it all really. Abridged version should say "tried it didn't work and 3 companies later we're back again to ask for more wonga"!
Complete poppycock on MQ-9 needing 12 aircraft to provide 24/7 coverage for 3-4 weeks. They've been doing 24/7 with 2 aircraft and a spare for over 9 months - now that is persistance and its still going!!! You'll need the same amount of people to man an unmanned baloon for a 24/7 single orbit shift pattern as you would for MQ-9.
POPPYCOCK!
LJ
Says it all really. Abridged version should say "tried it didn't work and 3 companies later we're back again to ask for more wonga"!
Complete poppycock on MQ-9 needing 12 aircraft to provide 24/7 coverage for 3-4 weeks. They've been doing 24/7 with 2 aircraft and a spare for over 9 months - now that is persistance and its still going!!! You'll need the same amount of people to man an unmanned baloon for a 24/7 single orbit shift pattern as you would for MQ-9.
POPPYCOCK!
LJ
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B word
"up to 100mph" is a totally meaningless figure and absolute rubbish.
For example - "my knob is up to 10 inches long"
factually correct, but totally misleading.
And why did you use 30000ft? If you know anything about the role, then you know that is not suitable. Why not give the figures all the way up to 30000ft?
t43562 posted
"Maximum transit speed is 80 kt., the vehicle slowing to 30 kt. for station-keeping"
Leon Jabachjabicz posted
"Looking at the winds above I cannot see how it can station keep at 30kts - it would be going backwards!!!!"
erm....I was never very good at maths but no, not really.
"up to 100mph" is a totally meaningless figure and absolute rubbish.
For example - "my knob is up to 10 inches long"
factually correct, but totally misleading.
And why did you use 30000ft? If you know anything about the role, then you know that is not suitable. Why not give the figures all the way up to 30000ft?
t43562 posted
"Maximum transit speed is 80 kt., the vehicle slowing to 30 kt. for station-keeping"
Leon Jabachjabicz posted
"Looking at the winds above I cannot see how it can station keep at 30kts - it would be going backwards!!!!"
erm....I was never very good at maths but no, not really.
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Army blimp
The "Achilles class" blimps are sitting ducks. They are the equivolent of the battlewagons of another era. Many relatively easy and inexpensive procedures can defeat them. Billy Mitchell,call your office.
Baloons are a bad idea as demonstrated by a very brave pilot in the Goodyear Blimp 4 days ago...
A very sad story indeed
Pilot killed after Goodyear blimp plunges to the ground in flames in Germany | Mail Online
A very sad story indeed
Pilot killed after Goodyear blimp plunges to the ground in flames in Germany | Mail Online
But aeroplanes normally still create lift when they're burning, fabric covered gas bags do not - as is proven with the tragic picture above. Those ducted fan cars, tiltrotors and the Tarantula-Hawk UAS have similar issues when things go wrong - the Isaac Newton theory takes hold pretty soon after at 9.8 ms2.
My admiration for the blimp pilot goes out though, he sounds like a very brave man indeed.
LJ
My admiration for the blimp pilot goes out though, he sounds like a very brave man indeed.
LJ
The chart below says it all really (sorry about the size). For the past 40 years, with the same regurgitated idea, they have been trying to do this. "Snake Oil" indeed.
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fundamental design flaw
if the motors and fuel tanks had been arranged for easy jettisoning the weight reduction would lift the envelope and passenger cell away from the fire.
Of course you then have the problem of getting back down again - you'd either have to have a preplanned helium venting procedure, or else a recovery parachute system
n this particular case you could do the reverse: if the passenger cell had also been fitted with a quick release then the envelope would have lifted taking the motors and fuel away from the crew
either way, its do-able as long as the passenger cell is separate from the propulsion systems
if the motors and fuel tanks had been arranged for easy jettisoning the weight reduction would lift the envelope and passenger cell away from the fire.
Of course you then have the problem of getting back down again - you'd either have to have a preplanned helium venting procedure, or else a recovery parachute system
n this particular case you could do the reverse: if the passenger cell had also been fitted with a quick release then the envelope would have lifted taking the motors and fuel away from the crew
either way, its do-able as long as the passenger cell is separate from the propulsion systems
GAPAN recognises Airship Captain's bravery
Captain Mike Nerandzic was one of the most experienced airship pilots in the world. His career in aviation began in 1977 when he learned to fly following studies in Aeronautical Engineering at the University of New South Wales. He worked as an instructor at the Navair Flying School, before flying a range of single and twin engined aircraft, as a corporate pilot, amassing some 4,800 fixed wing hours, and then joined Airship Industries in 1986 to fly airships, completing training in the USA in February 1987. In 1991, he transferred to the Lightship Group, where his wealth of experience and easy management style led to him becoming Assistant Director of Operations in Europe, and later in Australia and Asia. He continued to fly the A60 and A150 class airships on contract deployments across 23 countries, amassing nearly 10,000 airship hours over 25 years.
On Sunday 12 June 2011, Captain Mike Nerandzic was Pilot in Command of the A60 Lightship ‘Spirit of Safety 1’, one of two airships leased by Goodyear for marketing flights throughout Europe. He had taken off at 18.00 hrs, with one photographer and two television reporters on board, to film and photograph the Hessenfest festival in Germany. On return to Reichelsheim Airfield at 20.30 hrs that evening, for an as-yet unclear reason, the airship made a very firm landing and stopped abruptly and uncharacteristically short of the ground crew – the type of airship being flown has no braking capability and normally relies on ground friction to slow its progress towards the groundcrew on landing. The single undercarriage leg had collapsed and a fuel line was ruptured.
One of the passengers, photographer Joachim Storch, reported a strong smell of petrol in the cabin area, followed almost immediately by a fire. The television reporter in the front right seat, panicked at the sight of flames, tore off her seat belt, and jumped out through the open starboard window of the gondola - which is the emergency exit – and causing an immediate loss of ‘total weight’ in the airship.
With both engines stopped, the airship was still on the grass field, well short of the groundcrew and the essential ballast shot-bags, vital to offset the weight loss of any exiting passengers. As the fire began to take hold, however, it must have become evident to Captain Nerandzic that urgent action was required if he was to save the lives of his two remaining passengers.
According to Joachim Storch, rather than continue to complete the emergency flight procedures, Captain Nerandzic then turned and reached behind to open the single door on the port side of the gondola, which was locked for flight, and helped to move the camera equipment that partially blocked this exit. Unlocking this door would - and did - allow both remaining passengers to jump clear, but the weight loss would immediately cause the burning airship to rise into the air; it caused it to rise to a height of 150 feet. Captain Nerandzic would have been fully aware that this would be the result of his action and, irrespective of the circumstances that led to the predicament of the airship, this conscious, selfless act to save the lives of others, before thinking of his own, was a highly courageous act.
As the fire slowly engulfed him, Captain Nerandzic remained at the controls and continued to attempt to bring the aircraft to earth using free-ballooning techniques, which included operating the gas valves to vent helium, and then ultimately the envelope rip-line to tear open the airship. He did not survive.
In deliberately assisting his passengers to jump clear of the airship, without any vital exchange of ballast, Captain Mike Nerandzic knowingly and selflessly put his passengers’ lives before his own. He is accordingly, posthumously, recognised for this ultimate act of bravery with the Guild’s Award for Gallantry.
On Sunday 12 June 2011, Captain Mike Nerandzic was Pilot in Command of the A60 Lightship ‘Spirit of Safety 1’, one of two airships leased by Goodyear for marketing flights throughout Europe. He had taken off at 18.00 hrs, with one photographer and two television reporters on board, to film and photograph the Hessenfest festival in Germany. On return to Reichelsheim Airfield at 20.30 hrs that evening, for an as-yet unclear reason, the airship made a very firm landing and stopped abruptly and uncharacteristically short of the ground crew – the type of airship being flown has no braking capability and normally relies on ground friction to slow its progress towards the groundcrew on landing. The single undercarriage leg had collapsed and a fuel line was ruptured.
One of the passengers, photographer Joachim Storch, reported a strong smell of petrol in the cabin area, followed almost immediately by a fire. The television reporter in the front right seat, panicked at the sight of flames, tore off her seat belt, and jumped out through the open starboard window of the gondola - which is the emergency exit – and causing an immediate loss of ‘total weight’ in the airship.
With both engines stopped, the airship was still on the grass field, well short of the groundcrew and the essential ballast shot-bags, vital to offset the weight loss of any exiting passengers. As the fire began to take hold, however, it must have become evident to Captain Nerandzic that urgent action was required if he was to save the lives of his two remaining passengers.
According to Joachim Storch, rather than continue to complete the emergency flight procedures, Captain Nerandzic then turned and reached behind to open the single door on the port side of the gondola, which was locked for flight, and helped to move the camera equipment that partially blocked this exit. Unlocking this door would - and did - allow both remaining passengers to jump clear, but the weight loss would immediately cause the burning airship to rise into the air; it caused it to rise to a height of 150 feet. Captain Nerandzic would have been fully aware that this would be the result of his action and, irrespective of the circumstances that led to the predicament of the airship, this conscious, selfless act to save the lives of others, before thinking of his own, was a highly courageous act.
As the fire slowly engulfed him, Captain Nerandzic remained at the controls and continued to attempt to bring the aircraft to earth using free-ballooning techniques, which included operating the gas valves to vent helium, and then ultimately the envelope rip-line to tear open the airship. He did not survive.
In deliberately assisting his passengers to jump clear of the airship, without any vital exchange of ballast, Captain Mike Nerandzic knowingly and selflessly put his passengers’ lives before his own. He is accordingly, posthumously, recognised for this ultimate act of bravery with the Guild’s Award for Gallantry.
