Nimrod to go by March
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: europe
Age: 43
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SAR gap on the atlantic could be covered by the Irish Air Corps with thier 2 CASA CN235 MPA. I believe they often worked in tandem with Nimrods on Top cover operations for long range SAR helis, more often than not the MRCC tasked Nimords first.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The Shed
Posts: 195
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From They Work For You - 15Dec09 Future Defence Programme debate
Bob Ainsworth:
It is true that these 2 platforms can provide MPA responsibilities to a degree, however, if SoS Def has been led to believe they can replace the full multi role capability of Nimrod, then he's been mis-informed.
Vage rot asks what savings will be made as a result of this decision. My guess? Not a lot compared to the overall package ......... unless it's preparing the ground for binning MRA4 and closing Kinloss completely.
I don't believe CAS and 1SL are anything less than canny and astute politicians who have good brains between them. I think they're playing a high stakes game of poker with the house, car and wife on the table.
I hope you've got good cards Sirs.
PS Fortunately, your opponent is not the sharpest cookie in the box.
Bob Ainsworth:
On the withdrawal of Nimrod, I do not take these decisions without consulting the Chief of the Air Staff and the First Sea Lord. Other platforms are capable of providing the maritime patrol responsibilities. They have done so before-they are Merlin and Hercules, and we can meet our obligations with those other platforms.
Vage rot asks what savings will be made as a result of this decision. My guess? Not a lot compared to the overall package ......... unless it's preparing the ground for binning MRA4 and closing Kinloss completely.
I don't believe CAS and 1SL are anything less than canny and astute politicians who have good brains between them. I think they're playing a high stakes game of poker with the house, car and wife on the table.
I hope you've got good cards Sirs.
PS Fortunately, your opponent is not the sharpest cookie in the box.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: St Annes
Age: 68
Posts: 638
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't recall ever finding the Irish Air Corps hanging about the place any time I was out that way. I would be more than amazed if they got involved in plugging an ASW gap for the UK... the battle of the Atlantic in WW2, I would suggest, showed Ireland's opinion of helping the UK out during a life and death struggle, anyone banking on their assistance is barking.
Smiter is pretty well spot on. Herc and Merlin - anytime the cards are well and truly on the table this will be seen to be exactly what it is, 100% Bulls**t, unless the plan is to replace each Nimrod with 3 or 4 Hercs and a couple of dozen Merlin. The point is that to the vast majority of the general public, and not a few servicemen I would say, one aeroplane is pretty much as good as another - just as most people probably see nothing wrong sending something like a Scimitar in place of an MBT, or a frigate in place of a DDG. As long as the general public are so easily fooled why bother doing anything else? I bet we'd be pushed to fight the Belgians right now, if it came down to it...
Smiter is pretty well spot on. Herc and Merlin - anytime the cards are well and truly on the table this will be seen to be exactly what it is, 100% Bulls**t, unless the plan is to replace each Nimrod with 3 or 4 Hercs and a couple of dozen Merlin. The point is that to the vast majority of the general public, and not a few servicemen I would say, one aeroplane is pretty much as good as another - just as most people probably see nothing wrong sending something like a Scimitar in place of an MBT, or a frigate in place of a DDG. As long as the general public are so easily fooled why bother doing anything else? I bet we'd be pushed to fight the Belgians right now, if it came down to it...
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Lincoln
Age: 49
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quote:
On the withdrawal of Nimrod, I do not take these decisions without consulting the Chief of the Air Staff and the First Sea Lord. Other platforms are capable of providing the maritime patrol responsibilities. They have done so before-they are Merlin and Hercules, and we can meet our obligations with those other platforms.
Am I missing something here?? Can anyone enlighten me as to when the last time a Herc got contact on anything submerged? 'cos nobody is seriously suggesting that the Merlin can cover the sort of area a Nimrod can/did are they........are they?? Merlin and Herc are tremendous assets when tasked correctly - this is hardly playing to their strengths.
Thought that ISK may take a hit at the upcoming SDR, but never saw this coming - typical short-sightedness. Do we learn nothing from history - I fear we will never regain our long-range ASW capability (MRA4 - standby for the SDR....), and though there aren't many 'feathers' in Afghanistan, I reckon any of us could name hotspots where, given time, we may rue this decision. And what's a hotspot not...........
On the withdrawal of Nimrod, I do not take these decisions without consulting the Chief of the Air Staff and the First Sea Lord. Other platforms are capable of providing the maritime patrol responsibilities. They have done so before-they are Merlin and Hercules, and we can meet our obligations with those other platforms.
Am I missing something here?? Can anyone enlighten me as to when the last time a Herc got contact on anything submerged? 'cos nobody is seriously suggesting that the Merlin can cover the sort of area a Nimrod can/did are they........are they?? Merlin and Herc are tremendous assets when tasked correctly - this is hardly playing to their strengths.
Thought that ISK may take a hit at the upcoming SDR, but never saw this coming - typical short-sightedness. Do we learn nothing from history - I fear we will never regain our long-range ASW capability (MRA4 - standby for the SDR....), and though there aren't many 'feathers' in Afghanistan, I reckon any of us could name hotspots where, given time, we may rue this decision. And what's a hotspot not...........
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Falmouth
Posts: 1,651
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
'cos nobody is seriously suggesting that the Merlin can cover the sort of area a Nimrod can/did are they.
Where's all these Herky Birds coming from to carry out an added mission set?
As to the Irish plugging any gap with two (2), a pair, couple, of aircraft.....well then I must be underestimating something!
As to the Irish plugging any gap with two (2), a pair, couple, of aircraft.....well then I must be underestimating something!
I don't believe CAS and 1SL are anything less than canny and astute politicians who have good brains between them. I think they're playing a high stakes game of poker with the house, car and wife on the table.
Never. That would be like suggesting to the Minister that £20m could be shaved off the MoD’s annual budget if only he were to announce cut-backs in TA training.
sh1t, paddle, creek. Rearrange into a well known phrase or saying. 
Not the most erudite and meaningful contribution I have made on Pprune but I fear I might blow a blood vessel were I to articulate the depth of feeling regarding this latest betrayal...
Not the most erudite and meaningful contribution I have made on Pprune but I fear I might blow a blood vessel were I to articulate the depth of feeling regarding this latest betrayal...
Guest
Posts: n/a
Don't be silly. A Merlin far outstretch s the legs of a Nimrod.
You really are a troll. There is no way that you can be making statements like you are without either:
1. Trying to wind the good and learn-ed folk of pprune up with your crap
OR
2. Actually believing that some of the claggage that you're writing to be factual.
I think your knowledge of ASW can be written on the back of a postage stamp, in Crayola.
Originally Posted by stbd beam
I think what we need now is for a couple of Akulas to come & rattle the Deterrent good n proper...
Cunning Artificer
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: The spiritual home of DeHavilland
Age: 76
Posts: 3,127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ever since the UK became self-sufficient in food and oil, and we ceased to rely on seaborne trade to feed ourselves and provide power and travel, the Royal Navy and the RAF's maritime patrol capability have been redundant. With the end of the cold war, we no longer need airborne early warning. Then there's all this electronic intelligence gathering nonsense.
The Prime Minister is quite capable of committing the army to war without having to rely on intelligence: rest assured that when it comes to saving the world, he knows what is the right thing to do. Its a disgrace that we've wasted so much money on anti-submarine capability, early warning and intelligence gathering for so long when the money was desperately needed for more social workers and expansion of the probation service.
The C130 is quite capable of replacing both the Royal Navy and Nimrod, in fact, with that big bomb bay and the doors that open at the back it would make a really neat bomber and at a pinch, with some sidewinders hung on the wings we could use it for air defence.
The Prime Minister is quite capable of committing the army to war without having to rely on intelligence: rest assured that when it comes to saving the world, he knows what is the right thing to do. Its a disgrace that we've wasted so much money on anti-submarine capability, early warning and intelligence gathering for so long when the money was desperately needed for more social workers and expansion of the probation service.
The C130 is quite capable of replacing both the Royal Navy and Nimrod, in fact, with that big bomb bay and the doors that open at the back it would make a really neat bomber and at a pinch, with some sidewinders hung on the wings we could use it for air defence.
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So who's next?
In fact, I imagine that the MR2 was offered up because it was going to be gone anyway within a few years. They've just grabbed at an OSD and gone "yes, we can move that forward," not thought about it.
So who's next for a cost-cutting early bath? The force multipliers at BZN due out of service during a similar time scale - the first jet off to the knacker's yard early next year followed by another every subsequent 6 months?
Then the FJs won't be able to make Vegas (or anywhere else), so hotel and subsistence costs slashed!!!
So who's next for a cost-cutting early bath? The force multipliers at BZN due out of service during a similar time scale - the first jet off to the knacker's yard early next year followed by another every subsequent 6 months?
Then the FJs won't be able to make Vegas (or anywhere else), so hotel and subsistence costs slashed!!!
Last edited by tommee_hawk; 19th Dec 2009 at 23:59.
Spock me old mucker......good to hear you are still in the fray......need someone like you to be still in there stirring things. Dont bother with the 1c just bash them with them brows of yours. Hope you are well.
Fergi
Fergi
Originally Posted by stbd beam
I think what we need now is for a couple of Akulas to come & rattle the Deterrent good n proper...
I think what we need now is for a couple of Akulas to come & rattle the Deterrent good n proper...
Article 12(2) of the Convention on the High Seas, 1958, reads:
"Every coastal state shall promote the establishment and maintenance of an adequate and effective search and rescue service regarding safety on and over the sea and - where circumstances so require - by way of mutual regional arrangements cooperate with neighboring states for this purpose."
"Every coastal state shall promote the establishment and maintenance of an adequate and effective search and rescue service regarding safety on and over the sea and - where circumstances so require - by way of mutual regional arrangements cooperate with neighboring states for this purpose."
Both the 1958 Geneva Convention on the High Seas and the 1982 LOS Convention provide that every state shall require the master of a vessel flying its flag, insofar as can be done without serious danger to the ship, crew, or passengers, to render assistance to any person found at sea in danger of being lost and to proceed with all possible speed to the rescue of persons in distress if informed of their need for assistance, insofar as it can reasonably be expected.
In addition, SOLAS requires the master of every merchant ship and private vessel to assist persons in distress and to broadcast warning messages with respect to dangerous conditions or hazards encountered at sea.
In addition, SOLAS requires the master of every merchant ship and private vessel to assist persons in distress and to broadcast warning messages with respect to dangerous conditions or hazards encountered at sea.
Sadly, it is not SAR that is Nimrod's "raison d'etre" - but we can't talk about specifics on that on here.
The B Word
Guest
Posts: n/a
Sadly, it is not SAR that is Nimrod's "raison d'etre"
As for the "raison d'etre" of which you speak, there is nothing in the cupboard to fill the gap in the same manner. Shout all you like about Merlins, Type 23's and SSN but they just can't do it.