Nimrod to go by March

[Romeo Alfa]

I'm sure the the Gaywacs fleet will volunteer to pick up all the maritime tasking (as long as it's not at the weekend!).

[Fat Chris]

A perfect demonstration of how far up their own backside those at the top of the RAF chain are.

There is no logical answer to the question, "Why?". In an attempt to take a balanced view of things as they stand............

1. Helicopters and AT are a massive priority, as the conflict that we are currently engaged in has little need for a large FJ presence and more for combat support.

2. The MR2 provides much more than one of the most capable ASW platforms in the world and it's capability 'capping' has far greater reach than most appreciate (including those in the Main Building, it would seem). The end result of this gap could be as small (?) as the inability to fix and assist a vessel in distress that is out of range of UK SAR(H), or as large as the compromise of the nation's nuclear deterrent.

3. Whilst the introduction of a new and capable FJ fleet is important to the defence of the UK, it is NOT the priority at this time, nor is it likely to be in the next 2/3 years.

It leaves only one question of events in the MoD........

......has the Christmas party season started already?

[The Gorilla]

My view is it's a cynical ploy to get rid of our ASW all together. If you can have a "holiday" why not save shed loads of money and do away with it all together?

What will happen to all the surplus Air Eng's now then?

TG

[Could be the last?]

So what are 150-200 AEops going to do? I wonder how many of them were/are ALMs in disguise...........? I think the CH47 force are looking for volunteers

Green Flash,

What crush at 'W'? I was there last week and it's a ghost town!

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

Metman.That’s a fair observation. It certainly meets the MoD contribution to;

Ministry of Defence | Defence News | Defence Policy and Business | MOD announces new Air Safety Authority

The Military Aviation Authority (MAA) has been created as part of the MOD's full response to the Nimrod Review by Charles Haddon-Cave QC following the deaths of 14 Service personnel onboard Nimrod XV230 on 2 September 2006.

Air Marshal Kevin Leeson, Chief of Materiel (Air), said:

"The Ministry of Defence and the Royal Air Force is committed to learning from this tragic accident. Mr Haddon-Cave confirmed that the Nimrod aircraft remain safe to fly. He commended the findings of the RAF Board of Inquiry and the technical actions we had taken to restore integrity.

Originally Posted by Fat Chris

Whilst the introduction of a new and capable FJ fleet is important to the defence of the UK, it is NOT the priority at this time, nor is it likely to be in the next 2/3 years.

That may well be true but not much help if you’ve just bought them, at the time they were still available.

[Fat Chris]

Sadly, you're right.

Anyone could be forgiven that a little procurement foresight was needed. Oh, well. When do I collect my ration book and gas mask? That's the next event in the pattern, isn't it? The Battle of Britain mentality leaps forth once more and the non-fighter theatres are dismissed easily. Typical bloody RAF.

[JamesA]

Don't be surprised to see Uncle Lockheed riding to the rescue, i.e. a quick dust-down, a flash over paint job and there is an instant squadron of one careful owner P-3s.
Somebody in the ministry is praised to high heaven, (have another CBE), for saving the day and quietly trousers a bag of gold and all is well.
Long live defence cuts and savings

[Fat Chris]

I'm not sure about a bag of gold in the future, but I'd like to bet that someone's creeping down a corridor with 30 pieces of silver in their pocket today.

[Tonka Toy]

Arc, Fisheries protection - Scottish fisheries agency. Or english fisheries. Oil rigs, Maritime and Coastguard Agency assetts. I refer to various off shore incidents and the Kuznetsov incident of valentines day this year which was ably responded to by an MCA 404 from coventry masquerading as an IAAC CASA for political reasons. Both crew members of which are now working for other 'agencies' having been made redundant.

James - just exactly where were you going to magic up these P3s from?

[davejb]

Gentlemen,
this is entirely the wrong attitude to take, don't view the 'gapping' of MR2/4 (or MR2/Nimrod 2028 as it'll eventually be known) in this pessimistic vein - look for the opportunities this affords:

What better time could you find for running vast quantities of cocaine into the country? No MPAs, the RN reduced to a fisheries protcetion vessel, 4 pedaloes and HMS Victory, and the Army are both away in Afghanistan. I'm in for a fiver, how about we all club together for a massive drugs haul during the capability gap? Hmm?

Dave "Carlos" B

[SASless]

The US Navy Boeing P-8 Poseidon is coming along nicely....perhaps that will wind up replacing the Nimrod some day.

First Navy Test Pilot Flies P-8A Poseidon - Southern Maryland News, Charles County, Calvert County and St. Mary's County News

[Party Animal]

Interesting point, Gorilla makes. If the RN have assured ministers that they can take care of any threat to the integrity of our BM capability using ships, subs and Merlin... and if they guarantee that they will cope adequately with any maritime terrorist threat to the UK or react to drug smugglers at short notice etc, ... and if we have no major life threatening SAR event (Piper Alpha) over the next 2 years that could have been lessened by Nimrod cover - will the Treasury see it as justification to cut MPA altogether? There won't be a capability gap if other assets (on paper) can take on the job and nothing actually happens to put them to the test. I'm sure the Dutch never envisioned losing the P3 force 10 years ago...

[fergineer]

RIP Nimrod......Had fun flying on you and wish all my Kipper Fleet mates all the best in the future....Agree with all thoughts about how you will cover the gap when it goes.......DaveJB dont wind them up too much and watch out for the black Omega's outside!!!!!! Good luck .......Losing your jobs could well be a direct result of the loss of the A/C in Afganistan and the furore that followed that was always on the cards but to come as quick as this and without the MR4 is wrong in my opinion.
Enjoy the rest guys.

[Fat Chris]

SASless - The P8 discussion has had the backside well and truly kicked out of it in the past, and the incumbent USN MPA is not likely to be as capable as the MRA4. If for no other reason than a twin-engined aircraft will offer up some serious low-level performance questions, in the event of single engine failure. A quick search using the facility at the top of the page will allow you to trawl through the arguments for and against.

Party Animal - You can't even hope to compare the UK's maritime commitment to that undertaken by the Dutch. I have no doubt that we will make do during the gapped period, but the capability will be missed. What the fleet really needs is the feedback, from the organisations that would normally have a service provided by the Nimrod MPA, to report what effects and to what extent the lack of support is having.

[fincastle84]

Bob Ainsworth & the one eyed jock maniac should be f***** sideways with an A sized sonobuoy.

Spock

Nimrods '72-'92

[SammySu]

Beagle - it's ok we have some of those nice new 406 beacons too so we can be located in the middle of the atlantic, prior to a Herc throwing a dinghy at us prior to waiting 4 days for a military ship to pick us up as we don't want to get kidnapped by a merchant vessel. We do all have working PELS beacons don't we......?
Absolutely criminal some of the capabilities lost yesterday.

[Plunko1]

What makes me angry is the fact that there is a simple solution to the problem.

Scrap MRA4
Scrap A400M
Scrap Sentry
Close Waddo
Close Kinloss

With Billions saved buy 25 more Hercs.
No need for new SOP's, OCU, OEU etc etc etc because it all already exists!!

Open new Hercules MR Sqn and use the nimrod guys experience to produce a viable Herc MR platform.

Easy really.... Lots of jobs for everyone!

[Joe Black]

Reading through all these threads it appears that most seem to be thinking along the same lines. I must admit I was not surprised about what occurred yesterday and what surprised me was Kinloss staying open, however, the writing does appear to be on the wall good and proper. Only time will tell at just how much the lack of LRMPA will affect the various agencies and it'll probably take something major to kick off/occurr to save the MRA4 from the chop.

Getting our SH fleet 22 new chinooks is fantastic but surely the fact that we won't get the benefit of these until 2013(10 of them) underlines just how short-sighted and ridiculous this decision appears?

Something tells me that something major does loom over the horizon and with our current state I dread that day. History all over again.

[5 Forward 6 Back]

To those asking why the Nimrod's gone, I think you're affording the decision-makers with a little bit too much intelligence if you think there was any reasoning behind its death in terms of capabilities lost.

In fact, I imagine that the MR2 was offered up because it was going to be gone anyway within a few years. They've just grabbed at an OSD and gone "yes, we can move that forward," not thought about it.

[The Old Fat One]

F84 (AKA Spock)

Bob Ainsworth & the one eyed jock maniac should be f***** sideways with an A sized sonobuoy.

Since you took the last MK1 to victory in the AW, would it not be not more appropriate (and more satisfying) to do the insertion with a MK1C Active?