Wearing Uniform in London
I sometimes wonder wether saving money costs more than to have just spent it anyway.
A recent example (from Tuesday gone), whilst waiting at Kings Cross Railway Station in London, I ran into a chap whom I had not seen for many years (since we were both on basic airman training at RAF Swinderby in the 1980's in fact).
Unlike myself, he had gone on to become one of the great and good of the Commissioned variety, to the effect he is now a Wing Commander. He was travelling on business upto the North East and mentioned he had rather a lot of work to do on the train (unlike myself travelling at leisure).
Imagine my surprise when proceeding down to the train, I boarded in First Class (very cheap discounted 1st class ticket) and expected him to follow. At which point he said sorry but he was having to travel 'Pauper Class'. Upon further conversation it transpired his 'steerage' ticket had cost three times that of my own ticket.
He had known about his journey for about 4 weeks (longer than I had done infact) but with delay from whoever ticket bookings are meant to be made with, he had ended up with a very expensive walk on Standard ticket.
As he said, if had been allowed to book his own journey, he would have been joining me in first, at much less cost to the tax payer, with the ability to work in a quiet environment.
So much for 'Corporate Travel' saving money!
Pete
A recent example (from Tuesday gone), whilst waiting at Kings Cross Railway Station in London, I ran into a chap whom I had not seen for many years (since we were both on basic airman training at RAF Swinderby in the 1980's in fact).
Unlike myself, he had gone on to become one of the great and good of the Commissioned variety, to the effect he is now a Wing Commander. He was travelling on business upto the North East and mentioned he had rather a lot of work to do on the train (unlike myself travelling at leisure).
Imagine my surprise when proceeding down to the train, I boarded in First Class (very cheap discounted 1st class ticket) and expected him to follow. At which point he said sorry but he was having to travel 'Pauper Class'. Upon further conversation it transpired his 'steerage' ticket had cost three times that of my own ticket.
He had known about his journey for about 4 weeks (longer than I had done infact) but with delay from whoever ticket bookings are meant to be made with, he had ended up with a very expensive walk on Standard ticket.
As he said, if had been allowed to book his own journey, he would have been joining me in first, at much less cost to the tax payer, with the ability to work in a quiet environment.
So much for 'Corporate Travel' saving money!
Pete
Last edited by Pete268; 19th Dec 2009 at 06:23.
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I dont think cost always comes into it - or always has done. I have previously been refused air travel which worked out cheaper than the rail standard class equivilent. I think it's more to do with satisying one party that they are better than another on preconceptions. If being dragged by your arse from London to Glasgow by a Nissan sunny became a fashionable / suave way to travel then you could bet only Lt and above would get it whilst the other scrotes would have to endure the train!
Pete268, a good example indeed!
People are often surprised to discover that 'Restricted' Business Class air fares can be a lot cheaper than 'Flexible' Economy Class - particularly if you book them yourself on 't InterWeb.
2 of us once had to travel from UK-Spain for business purposes. I flew BHX-MUC-MAD with Lufthansa, whilst my colleague flew direct from MCR-MAD with baConAir. I flew Business Class, he flew LoCo sub-Economy. My ticket was about €100 less than his!
Last year I was also able to book a 'Z Class' transatlantic price for about €500 less than the best the company travel agent could find....
So yes, a bit of trust and some Internet skills and you can save your employer a whole hill of dosh!
People are often surprised to discover that 'Restricted' Business Class air fares can be a lot cheaper than 'Flexible' Economy Class - particularly if you book them yourself on 't InterWeb.
2 of us once had to travel from UK-Spain for business purposes. I flew BHX-MUC-MAD with Lufthansa, whilst my colleague flew direct from MCR-MAD with baConAir. I flew Business Class, he flew LoCo sub-Economy. My ticket was about €100 less than his!
Last year I was also able to book a 'Z Class' transatlantic price for about €500 less than the best the company travel agent could find....
So yes, a bit of trust and some Internet skills and you can save your employer a whole hill of dosh!
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External Recruitment
With immediate effect all external recruitment of civilian staff including agency staff and manpower substitution should cease.
Ho ho ho. We'll see how long that lasts.... before legacy systems start grinding to a halt and no-one knows how to fix them.
Or the only person who knows how to fix them is busy dodging bullets thousands of miles away...
Step forward DSDA, front and centre, for a start, given the plethora of logistics applications written in house prior to the formation of DSDA that MMiT and FLIS arent going to pick up, but that are still in use (and are deemed mission critical by their sponsors)... I wonder how many projects that are at or past Main Gate (and whose outputs are going to become critical in the next 18 months or so and could have pan governmental implications - I can think of one project in particular but cant mention it here) are going to start feeling the pinch...
What was that old saying about the more things change the more they stay the same??
Going to be an interesting 12 months or so methinks....
With immediate effect all external recruitment of civilian staff including agency staff and manpower substitution should cease.
Ho ho ho. We'll see how long that lasts.... before legacy systems start grinding to a halt and no-one knows how to fix them.
Or the only person who knows how to fix them is busy dodging bullets thousands of miles away... Step forward DSDA, front and centre, for a start, given the plethora of logistics applications written in house prior to the formation of DSDA that MMiT and FLIS arent going to pick up, but that are still in use (and are deemed mission critical by their sponsors)... I wonder how many projects that are at or past Main Gate (and whose outputs are going to become critical in the next 18 months or so and could have pan governmental implications - I can think of one project in particular but cant mention it here) are going to start feeling the pinch...
What was that old saying about the more things change the more they stay the same??
Going to be an interesting 12 months or so methinks....
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How nice to see you all complaining about first class travel or the lack of it.
I remember a journey from Tern Hill to Leuchars in 1951. I was an Officer Cadet Pilot entitled to first class rail travel and a proper meal cooked in a kitchen and served by an exquisit steward (well, he thought he was). In later years working with my BEA flight manager, and sitting in the sunshine with a couple of our cabin crew having a quiet drink by the Rhine, Graham commented how good it was to have been an APO travelling first class on the Empress of Canada for flying training. He said it was a pleasure to go down the stairs to the dining room for breakfast as the brass work glistened. At which Bill Rimmer, our chief steward, wryly commented in his scouse accent that it was he who had been up half the night polishing it. Quite a few of our Manchester based stewards had worked on the ships from Liverpool before joining BEA.
I remember a journey from Tern Hill to Leuchars in 1951. I was an Officer Cadet Pilot entitled to first class rail travel and a proper meal cooked in a kitchen and served by an exquisit steward (well, he thought he was). In later years working with my BEA flight manager, and sitting in the sunshine with a couple of our cabin crew having a quiet drink by the Rhine, Graham commented how good it was to have been an APO travelling first class on the Empress of Canada for flying training. He said it was a pleasure to go down the stairs to the dining room for breakfast as the brass work glistened. At which Bill Rimmer, our chief steward, wryly commented in his scouse accent that it was he who had been up half the night polishing it. Quite a few of our Manchester based stewards had worked on the ships from Liverpool before joining BEA.
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Camouflaged smoking hut required!
Blue Bottle
I do hope you’re wrong, as its bad enough on just one day a week walking through Embankment Gardens and passing the rather sad group dressed in various combinations of dark blue, light blue and green (none wearing a hat!) huddled around the “smoking post”. Not the most positive image they could project to the public as defenders of the realm! Still as we are now heading towards being Belgium with “bombers” do such things matter anymore?
I do hope you’re wrong, as its bad enough on just one day a week walking through Embankment Gardens and passing the rather sad group dressed in various combinations of dark blue, light blue and green (none wearing a hat!) huddled around the “smoking post”. Not the most positive image they could project to the public as defenders of the realm! Still as we are now heading towards being Belgium with “bombers” do such things matter anymore?
Heard before we knocked off that service folks in uniform full time from next year, OR's will then loose Civil Clothing allowance as a saving..happy days
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
On air fares a few years ago I was bought a ticket to Italy for £450. There was a possibility for Mrs PN to come to so I nipped down the the TA and bought her a ticket for £150. Potentially this was going to cause us a problem - different airlines, different times etc - until I discovered I was on the same Alitalia flight.
When I pointed out the difference they said that my £450 ticket was fully flexible and refundable. When I countered that they wee paying a £300 premium against the loss of £150 common sense prevailed!
The trouble is to few people are prepared to use commonsense and do the right thing.
When I pointed out the difference they said that my £450 ticket was fully flexible and refundable. When I countered that they wee paying a £300 premium against the loss of £150 common sense prevailed!
The trouble is to few people are prepared to use commonsense and do the right thing.
The trouble is to few people are prepared to use commonsense and do the right thing.
Guess which option the Travel Cell said we had to take? Apparently, air travel was not a recognised form of travel. The didn't see the irony in that last statement, but as they and our boss refused point blank to back down, the RAF got a bill in excess of a grand for a days visit rather than a bill for £300.
Seems the lack of common sense / doing the right thing is an institutional thing rather than a new thing.
its bad enough on just one day a week walking through Embankment Gardens and passing the rather sad group dressed in various combinations of dark blue, light blue and green (none wearing a hat!) huddled around the “smoking post”.
163: You're not allowed to smoke whilst wearing headdress. Never were, never will be.... it's always been hat off before lighting smoke. Did you ever serve at all? (Or did you ever smoke in uniform?!)
I gather it is something to do with wearing the Queen's crown on your titfer... you shouldn't smoke under the Queen's crown.
Someone may be able to furnish you with the exact details.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
A secret airbase in Lincolnshire to another secret one in Germany. Options:
1. Fly
2. Ferry
3. Tunnel
Aim: find the cheapest.
1. Ask travel cell - they gave the cost of the air fare but no idea cost of ferry.
2. Ask movements - they gave the cost of the ferry.
3. Asked what about the tunnel?
No idea, the Tunnel is not in the book.
1. Fly
2. Ferry
3. Tunnel
Aim: find the cheapest.
1. Ask travel cell - they gave the cost of the air fare but no idea cost of ferry.
2. Ask movements - they gave the cost of the ferry.
3. Asked what about the tunnel?
No idea, the Tunnel is not in the book.
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Picture the scene:
Currently stationed overseas and need to attend a meeting at Northwood at short notice. Already having plans to spend a weekend in London with friends I check the cost of changing my return flight to a Monday evening, a mighty 70 Euros, and that I can do the meeting on a Monday morning.
Check in with the requisite travel cell to tell them how clever I am and that I can save the MoD a fortune.
350 Euros later and 2 round trips in 72 hrs I got home...
Currently stationed overseas and need to attend a meeting at Northwood at short notice. Already having plans to spend a weekend in London with friends I check the cost of changing my return flight to a Monday evening, a mighty 70 Euros, and that I can do the meeting on a Monday morning.
Check in with the requisite travel cell to tell them how clever I am and that I can save the MoD a fortune.
Oh no sir we can't do that, I'll book you a return air fare on the Monday
350 Euros later and 2 round trips in 72 hrs I got home...
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Bin the travel cell, and let people make their own bookings (with spending limit) and claim money back.
Btw boys, not all bad news as most of you seem to have knocked off for the year while us civvies might grab 4 days leave over the next 2 weeks.
Btw boys, not all bad news as most of you seem to have knocked off for the year while us civvies might grab 4 days leave over the next 2 weeks.
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Of course the reason MOD now has so many 2* and 3* posts (and I include the CS in their number) is because they spend most of their time signing-off travel applications.
GPC is fine in principle, but most unit seem to have layers of people whose sole purpose is to delay, confuse and generally come up with options that are almost, but not quite, entirely inappropriate for what is required.
I know I asked this back on page 1 of this thread, but can ANYBODY PLEASE tell me why the MOD is still booking stuff through Hogg Robinson??? It's absolutely barking, and far from demonstrating that the MOD is serious about financial governance, simply gives the impression that someone, somewhere, is on the make.
STH
GPC is fine in principle, but most unit seem to have layers of people whose sole purpose is to delay, confuse and generally come up with options that are almost, but not quite, entirely inappropriate for what is required.
I know I asked this back on page 1 of this thread, but can ANYBODY PLEASE tell me why the MOD is still booking stuff through Hogg Robinson??? It's absolutely barking, and far from demonstrating that the MOD is serious about financial governance, simply gives the impression that someone, somewhere, is on the make.
STH
Some years ago, I was told to go from Brize to Ramstein and back for a 'TLP planning conference' as the Spams couldn't just ring us up and ask, it seems...
Investigate cost of travel. Drive to airport, flight to Frankfurt, hire car....£LOTS. Very £LOTS, it seems. Drive from home to Chunnel, then on to Ramstein - much cheaper. The Blunt Ones were quite happy with this.
Investigate accommodation. Last bloke just checked the cost of a cheap hotel nearby, Spam chum at Ramstein confirmed they're always full, so that's what I told the Blunt Ones. "No Sir, sorry, but there's a new 'T-letter' about that - we need evidence that there's no room on base".
Drive over to Handbrake House to discuss the issue. "You have to ring Ramstein", they say. So I borrow their phone...as I know that the military systems couldn't (in those days) access Ramstein accommodation office direct, so the cost of the call will go down to Admin Whinge, not the squadron.
Click, buzz, whirr..."This is the Ramstein accommodation office, you are number 12 in the queue, please hold and we will deal with your call as soon as possible......". After about 30 minutes, "Sir, no, we have no accommodation, you will need to speak to Wiesbaden." "Can you transfer me?" "Sorry, sir, I can't do that - but the number is ........." Which turns out to be an Autovon number, so another battle to get hold of the Wiesbaden number follows.
Click, buzz, whirr..."This is the Wiesbaden accommodation office, you are number 7 in the queue, please hold and we will deal with your call as soon as possible......". Another 20 minutes and finally..."Sir, no, we have no accommodation, you will need accommodation off-base."
So, over an hour of time wasted and a very expensive call to prove what the chap at Ramstein had told me earlier. But it satisfied the Blunt Ones' rules - although they were getting as frustrated as I was.
Now we look at the cost of driving. Their 'shortest route' involved France, Belgium, Luxembourg and Germany and was only about 30 miles shorter than my proposed route which was all on French / German motorways. 4 countries, each with different currencies and different allowance rates, or just 2 - even the Blunt Ones could see that 4 would be 1771-hell for them, so agreed to my route.
Since the 'conference' was due to finish at mid-day, there was no way I could get home sticking to the 'MT working hours' rules in one day, so they agreed to me staying overnight in an hotel in Rheims on the way back.
All went well; my conference activity involved one phone call to Group, who gave me the answer immediately. This amazed the Spams as they would have needed to wake up some General in the Pentagon, rather than ringing a Sqn Ldr at Group.
Finish conference, off to BX. Then on to Rheims. Reasonable night and a decent meal, then leave at 0830, belt along the motorway to the Chunnel, buy a couple of cases of wine and catch the next train....home by 1330 (1430CET).
Submit F1771 and the Blunt Ones are very appreciative that I'd made their work considerably easier - they had even spoken to the Very Blunt Ones to tell them what a load of cobblers their 'T-letter' was and it was causing considerable difficulty. When the Adminers get going, they can be pretty aggressive when faced by external administrivial bull$hit, it seems!
Even with all the mileage, motorway tolls, the chunnel, 3 nights in 2 hotels and my allowances, the trip was still a couple of hundred cheaper than it would have been using the 'official' method. The Blunt Ones had been very helpful, I'd had some pleasant nights and a useful BX / Duty Free session - a win/win result all round.
BUT that was back in the mid-'90s when we had some very helpful people on base who could - and would - make sensible decisions. No expensive central booking blah, no JPA (which, thank heavens, was long after my time) - and a much higher quality of life.
I get the feeling that travelling to European military conferences is too expensive for the RAF these days - I was at a NATO conference a couple of months ago and although the French, Dutch, Polish, Spanish, Swedish, German and other air forces had all sent representatives, the RAF didn't turn up and the chairman had no idea why......
Investigate cost of travel. Drive to airport, flight to Frankfurt, hire car....£LOTS. Very £LOTS, it seems. Drive from home to Chunnel, then on to Ramstein - much cheaper. The Blunt Ones were quite happy with this.
Investigate accommodation. Last bloke just checked the cost of a cheap hotel nearby, Spam chum at Ramstein confirmed they're always full, so that's what I told the Blunt Ones. "No Sir, sorry, but there's a new 'T-letter' about that - we need evidence that there's no room on base".
Drive over to Handbrake House to discuss the issue. "You have to ring Ramstein", they say. So I borrow their phone...as I know that the military systems couldn't (in those days) access Ramstein accommodation office direct, so the cost of the call will go down to Admin Whinge, not the squadron.
Click, buzz, whirr..."This is the Ramstein accommodation office, you are number 12 in the queue, please hold and we will deal with your call as soon as possible......
". After about 30 minutes, "Sir, no, we have no accommodation, you will need to speak to Wiesbaden." "Can you transfer me?" "Sorry, sir, I can't do that - but the number is ........." Which turns out to be an Autovon number, so another battle to get hold of the Wiesbaden number follows. Click, buzz, whirr..."This is the Wiesbaden accommodation office, you are number 7 in the queue, please hold and we will deal with your call as soon as possible......
". Another 20 minutes and finally..."Sir, no, we have no accommodation, you will need accommodation off-base." So, over an hour of time wasted and a very expensive call to prove what the chap at Ramstein had told me earlier. But it satisfied the Blunt Ones' rules - although they were getting as frustrated as I was.
Now we look at the cost of driving. Their 'shortest route' involved France, Belgium, Luxembourg and Germany and was only about 30 miles shorter than my proposed route which was all on French / German motorways. 4 countries, each with different currencies and different allowance rates, or just 2 - even the Blunt Ones could see that 4 would be 1771-hell for them, so agreed to my route.
Since the 'conference' was due to finish at mid-day, there was no way I could get home sticking to the 'MT working hours' rules in one day, so they agreed to me staying overnight in an hotel in Rheims on the way back.
All went well; my conference activity involved one phone call to Group, who gave me the answer immediately. This amazed the Spams as they would have needed to wake up some General in the Pentagon, rather than ringing a Sqn Ldr at Group.
Finish conference, off to BX. Then on to Rheims. Reasonable night and a decent meal, then leave at 0830, belt along the motorway to the Chunnel, buy a couple of cases of wine and catch the next train....home by 1330 (1430CET).
Submit F1771 and the Blunt Ones are very appreciative that I'd made their work considerably easier - they had even spoken to the Very Blunt Ones to tell them what a load of cobblers their 'T-letter' was and it was causing considerable difficulty. When the Adminers get going, they can be pretty aggressive when faced by external administrivial bull$hit, it seems!
Even with all the mileage, motorway tolls, the chunnel, 3 nights in 2 hotels and my allowances, the trip was still a couple of hundred cheaper than it would have been using the 'official' method. The Blunt Ones had been very helpful, I'd had some pleasant nights and a useful BX / Duty Free session - a win/win result all round.
BUT that was back in the mid-'90s when we had some very helpful people on base who could - and would - make sensible decisions. No expensive central booking blah, no JPA (which, thank heavens, was long after my time) - and a much higher quality of life.
I get the feeling that travelling to European military conferences is too expensive for the RAF these days - I was at a NATO conference a couple of months ago and although the French, Dutch, Polish, Spanish, Swedish, German and other air forces had all sent representatives, the RAF didn't turn up and the chairman had no idea why......
Btw boys, not all bad news as most of you seem to have knocked off for the year while us civvies might grab 4 days leave over the next 2 weeks
I get the feeling that travelling to European military conferences is too expensive for the RAF these days - I was at a NATO conference a couple of months ago and although the French, Dutch, Polish, Spanish, Swedish, German and other air forces had all sent representatives, the RAF didn't turn up and the chairman had no idea why......