Sorry you're a pax now
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Probably the only reason that they check your baggage and weapons and the like, is that you are returning from a country where you could have purchased alcohol at duty free prices or drugs or whatever.......it has nothing to do with weapons to use against the aircraft crew. Its all a huge, misguided joke as are all the security measures put in place at RAF bases world wide.
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Is this thread still going
Kenny customs are in place at Lyneham Bzn etc to sort out the sort of problems you allude to, Muppets and scuffers" are there to check for stuff they might be able to use in the respective crewrooms.
I am often handed "weapons of mass destruction" in the form of aircrew knives or gerbers etc by well intentioned movers or RafP only to re issue said items as soon as the doors are closed. For all those familiar with Albert there are more than enough "lethal wepons" available down the back in the form of tensioners, chains etc or even, god forbid, the other assorted dangerous air cargo we carry which is readily accesable to all and sundry
There is no doubt that both the afore mentioned empires are in place for good reasons, the "df" alcohol is now kicking in, but the justification for fuc@ing about "our own" holds no water at all.
Solution is for scuffers to do what they do best............gate guard and for muppets to do what they do best.................answers on a postcard
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
Kenny customs are in place at Lyneham Bzn etc to sort out the sort of problems you allude to, Muppets and scuffers" are there to check for stuff they might be able to use in the respective crewrooms.
I am often handed "weapons of mass destruction" in the form of aircrew knives or gerbers etc by well intentioned movers or RafP only to re issue said items as soon as the doors are closed. For all those familiar with Albert there are more than enough "lethal wepons" available down the back in the form of tensioners, chains etc or even, god forbid, the other assorted dangerous air cargo we carry which is readily accesable to all and sundry
There is no doubt that both the afore mentioned empires are in place for good reasons, the "df" alcohol is now kicking in, but the justification for fuc@ing about "our own" holds no water at all.
Solution is for scuffers to do what they do best............gate guard and for muppets to do what they do best.................answers on a postcard
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
Ah...Chaps it isn't just the military that does this....
Warri, Nigeria....Bristow operation for Texaco Oil Company....Pax finished sleeping through the video passenger briefing....having already been screened by security....as I led the herd towards our Bell 212....here comes the Security Wallah calling for me to stop....then with his Magnetic Wand....he completed the security screening of each passenger.....made them stand like a scrarecrow....legs apart...arms pointing at the horizon.....while he furiously scanned every inch of their body.....and completely ignoring the GPMG and Ammo in two of the guys' hands....or the SLR's and loaded magazines in the other nine sets of hands....Nigerian Navy crew headed to the rigs to put down the hostage taking on the rig. Where is the Kodak when you need one!!!
Warri, Nigeria....Bristow operation for Texaco Oil Company....Pax finished sleeping through the video passenger briefing....having already been screened by security....as I led the herd towards our Bell 212....here comes the Security Wallah calling for me to stop....then with his Magnetic Wand....he completed the security screening of each passenger.....made them stand like a scrarecrow....legs apart...arms pointing at the horizon.....while he furiously scanned every inch of their body.....and completely ignoring the GPMG and Ammo in two of the guys' hands....or the SLR's and loaded magazines in the other nine sets of hands....Nigerian Navy crew headed to the rigs to put down the hostage taking on the rig. Where is the Kodak when you need one!!!
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Dead heading on Herc out of Lyn during GW1 carrying crew 9mm's in one ammo box and 60 rounds in another ammo box.
RAFP ask me what was in the boxes, I told him, he X-rayed them and cleared me into the holding area. The 6 crews also in the Q had to do the same.
It was very, very funny. At least he let us keep our knives!
RAFP ask me what was in the boxes, I told him, he X-rayed them and cleared me into the holding area. The 6 crews also in the Q had to do the same.
It was very, very funny. At least he let us keep our knives!
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Q. Who could change or relax the RAF's air transport security regulations if they wanted to?
A. The RAF hierarchy.
Q. What have the RAF hierarchy got in common?
A. They're almost all aircrew.
Go figure
A. The RAF hierarchy.
Q. What have the RAF hierarchy got in common?
A. They're almost all aircrew.
Go figure
Champagne anyone...?
Scud - would that were the case.
We live in an airforce of little empires.
In this case it's the Movements and ATSY empires that are busily creating work for themselves.
We live in an airforce of little empires.
In this case it's the Movements and ATSY empires that are busily creating work for themselves.
Inter Arma Enim Silentius Lex Legis
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This is a problem that we have had for a loonng time now.
The general concensus is that it is the movers fault. The RAFP blame the movers and the movers blame the RAFP. But loadies in the know tell me it's down to the movers.
So guess what?? I no longer carry an aircrew knife. Point Blank refuse to!!
Result = I no longer get stressed when some under paid empire builder demands my knife!!
Having said that I no longer get stressed about anything that goes on in the Billy Smarts circus that passes for an Air Farce!!
The general concensus is that it is the movers fault. The RAFP blame the movers and the movers blame the RAFP. But loadies in the know tell me it's down to the movers.
So guess what?? I no longer carry an aircrew knife. Point Blank refuse to!!
Result = I no longer get stressed when some under paid empire builder demands my knife!!
Having said that I no longer get stressed about anything that goes on in the Billy Smarts circus that passes for an Air Farce!!
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Come off it, StopStart. There's only one empire in the RAF and that's the aircrew empire. Nothing wrong with that. After all, we are an air force. Just don't try to blame the troops, when the rules they are told to enforce don't happen to suit you.
Gorilla
I imagine an underpaid empire builder has some self-esteem, whereas, someone who works for an organisation he regards as a joke, is just rather sad.
Gorilla
I imagine an underpaid empire builder has some self-esteem, whereas, someone who works for an organisation he regards as a joke, is just rather sad.
Champagne anyone...?
Spare me. "Just don't blame the troops"......
"Come and see the violence inherent in the system! Help, help, I'm being repressed!"
Nobody's blaming the "troops" and for you to suggest I am is fairly disingenuous. My point was that "empires" have been created by the movers and the feds and that they are more than happy to lose sight of what is important in the defence of that empire. Yes, there might well be an aircrew empire, but from where I am sat it's a fairly powerless one these days. Fortunately, I'm fully trained to not really give a toss.
Anyway, I can see the headline forming in your mind now.....
"Arrogant aircrew fascist kicks humble SAC to death for daring to to bother him with Mover trivia."
Needed to remove that link SS. Definitely offensive and highly sensitive.
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ABIW/Gorilla/StopStart - Nice to see 'Team Lyneham' is working in harmony. Might I suggest that rather than listen to "Loadies in the know", "My best friend said" or "I heard from ..." that you actually go and talk to the Head Mover and Plod and ascertain who is making these rules. I would then love to see the truthful reply.
ABIW - Nice to see you continue to make waves. You hand back out the knives on take-off, I don't think so! What you do need to find out is what contraband/contentious items have been found in baggage both at UK and overseas bases of operations which made the hierarchy insist on the searches. I'm aware of items ranging from SARBE beacons, live mines, misc ammo and a live grenade. It's not the wannabee terrorist sat next to me I worry about on Crab Air but what's inside the souvenier hunters bags which may kill me. Seeing as you circimvent the system I wonder what you carry?
Fortunately most of the Truckies are still nice, reasonable people and if there is a problem go speak to someone.
ABIW - Nice to see you continue to make waves. You hand back out the knives on take-off, I don't think so! What you do need to find out is what contraband/contentious items have been found in baggage both at UK and overseas bases of operations which made the hierarchy insist on the searches. I'm aware of items ranging from SARBE beacons, live mines, misc ammo and a live grenade. It's not the wannabee terrorist sat next to me I worry about on Crab Air but what's inside the souvenier hunters bags which may kill me. Seeing as you circimvent the system I wonder what you carry?
Fortunately most of the Truckies are still nice, reasonable people and if there is a problem go speak to someone.
Last edited by adrian mole; 9th Mar 2003 at 16:36.
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As one of the belittled Movs family, I will put in my £0.02.
I am responsible for the PAX and the load of the ac and the presentation of that 'safe' load to the ac crew. If you are carrying something that might just go bang, spark, whoosh, corrode etc it is up to Movs to make that safe.
We just apply the rules provided.
Oh - and yes - I have seen some supposedly educated people carrying some really stupid & dangerous things on board. Sometimes a genuine mistake, but often a complete disregard for safety and a lack of understanding.
And no - carry your own fekkin bags!
I am responsible for the PAX and the load of the ac and the presentation of that 'safe' load to the ac crew. If you are carrying something that might just go bang, spark, whoosh, corrode etc it is up to Movs to make that safe.
We just apply the rules provided.
Oh - and yes - I have seen some supposedly educated people carrying some really stupid & dangerous things on board. Sometimes a genuine mistake, but often a complete disregard for safety and a lack of understanding.
And no - carry your own fekkin bags!
I voss only obeyink orders.................
Not much of a defence for some of the alleged embug.gerances mentioned in this thread, I would suggest.
Not much of a defence for some of the alleged embug.gerances mentioned in this thread, I would suggest.
Champagne anyone...?
Yes, okay we are all very bad people for questioning these rules.
I agree that there are indeed plenty of donkeys out there who will try and bring back various high explosive "souvenirs" in their bags and that, yes, these fools do pose a threat. So bags should be checked and dangerous items removed.
At the other end of the scale we have the examples given above. Aircrew knives on flying suits. Or the chap asked to put his rifle through a metal detector. Flexibility of thought might not go amiss here.
No-one has yet explained to me why a Herc crew, travelling from Lyneham to Fairford, a flight time of about 7 minutes max had to check in 2 hours before, watch the safety video and then hand in their aircrew knives.
I shall use the word "Jobsworth" to describe the DAMO that insisted we do all that.
PS. Pprune Pop - yes, fair point sorry.
I agree that there are indeed plenty of donkeys out there who will try and bring back various high explosive "souvenirs" in their bags and that, yes, these fools do pose a threat. So bags should be checked and dangerous items removed.
At the other end of the scale we have the examples given above. Aircrew knives on flying suits. Or the chap asked to put his rifle through a metal detector. Flexibility of thought might not go amiss here.
No-one has yet explained to me why a Herc crew, travelling from Lyneham to Fairford, a flight time of about 7 minutes max had to check in 2 hours before, watch the safety video and then hand in their aircrew knives.
I shall use the word "Jobsworth" to describe the DAMO that insisted we do all that.
PS. Pprune Pop - yes, fair point
sorry.
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StopStart
Assume you are talking about the Fairford shuttle fir RIATs. I was in Day Pax at Lyneham taking the bookings those flights and liasing with the Ops Cpl who was arranging the flight.
As we understood it from Ops the landing time at Fairford was the critical thing - miss it and the flight wouldn't happen.
So we had planned on a 1 hour report. Yes 1 hour - so that when everyone turned up at the hour the pax desk would have a chance of checking you all off against the planned list and having a fighting chance of finishing off the trim, (Even 7 minute flights need a trim sheet) putting you all into the outbound lounge (safety video - does teh ALM not do saftery breifs on 7 minute flights?) and getting everyone out to the aircraft.
Why use the outbound lounge? Surprisingly enough you werent the only flights going off that day and it was the easiest way to ensure the right people got onto the aircraft.
So why did it change to a 2 hour check in....OC Police got to hear of the flight (not exactly a big secret as it was in orders). 'They are passengers so they need to be security checked'. He wouldn't comprise, everyone had to be checked or they couldnt fly - report time had to be increased to 2 hours to allow for this.
Assume you are talking about the Fairford shuttle fir RIATs. I was in Day Pax at Lyneham taking the bookings those flights and liasing with the Ops Cpl who was arranging the flight.
As we understood it from Ops the landing time at Fairford was the critical thing - miss it and the flight wouldn't happen.
So we had planned on a 1 hour report. Yes 1 hour - so that when everyone turned up at the hour the pax desk would have a chance of checking you all off against the planned list and having a fighting chance of finishing off the trim, (Even 7 minute flights need a trim sheet) putting you all into the outbound lounge (safety video - does teh ALM not do saftery breifs on 7 minute flights?) and getting everyone out to the aircraft.
Why use the outbound lounge? Surprisingly enough you werent the only flights going off that day and it was the easiest way to ensure the right people got onto the aircraft.
So why did it change to a 2 hour check in....OC Police got to hear of the flight (not exactly a big secret as it was in orders). 'They are passengers so they need to be security checked'. He wouldn't comprise, everyone had to be checked or they couldnt fly - report time had to be increased to 2 hours to allow for this.
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A Mole,
However later YOU say...
How about taking some of your own advice and tell us what YOU have actually SEEN, rather than what you are AWARE of 
Double standards old boy.
MadMark!!!
Might I suggest that rather than listen to "Loadies in the know", "My best friend said" or "I heard from ..."
I'm aware of items ranging from...
Double standards old boy.
MadMark!!!
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MM - Fair point. During a stint at Split in 1996 a young army Lt was caught entering the departure lounge with an anti-personnel mine stuffed down the front of his trousers... I kid you not.
Just before Christmas at a Herc base in Wilts a man from a base on the Welsh borders was found to have a live 40mm grenade in his bags, another had a live hand grenade and a third a bandolier of 100rds of 5.56mm ammo, all arriving back from Kabul.
It is a laugh x-raying weapon bundles until you discover a unit tried to hide a soviet made weapon in with some British one's as camouflage.
Once again, please speak to the Customs woman on the base who will happily relate the tales or show you evidence.
Just before Christmas at a Herc base in Wilts a man from a base on the Welsh borders was found to have a live 40mm grenade in his bags, another had a live hand grenade and a third a bandolier of 100rds of 5.56mm ammo, all arriving back from Kabul.
It is a laugh x-raying weapon bundles until you discover a unit tried to hide a soviet made weapon in with some British one's as camouflage.
Once again, please speak to the Customs woman on the base who will happily relate the tales or show you evidence.
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Fair enough - some good examples of planks with contraband there.
You guys are right - some of the Flight Safety/boarding rules etc are pants!
Although - aircrew, without an ac to fly, with an aircrew knife?!? Recipe for disaster - they'll get bored and start trying to cut things!!
And as for Leathermen - I've seen a DOCTOR test the blade of his new one by running his finger down it! DOH!
You'd not want that at altitude!
Pass me another gobbly box.
PS - where DO those Sausage Rolls & London Crisps actually come from?! 3rd World? Former Soviet States??
You guys are right - some of the Flight Safety/boarding rules etc are pants!
Although - aircrew, without an ac to fly, with an aircrew knife?!? Recipe for disaster - they'll get bored and start trying to cut things!!
And as for Leathermen - I've seen a DOCTOR test the blade of his new one by running his finger down it! DOH!
You'd not want that at altitude!
Pass me another gobbly box.
PS - where DO those Sausage Rolls & London Crisps actually come from?! 3rd World? Former Soviet States??
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police are police whether civ or mil, far easier to catch speeding motorists or aircrew paxing with knives than real criminals, as for muppets...... all I can ask is that all the 'customers' realize that it is as embarrassing for the crew as it is infuriating for the pax, however, don't complain here, go to the top of your cmd chains and tell them what really goes on,- muppets and scuffers, please don't trot out the old 'well the airforce is run by aircrew so it's all your fault' line, when was the last time 1SL, CGS, CAS etc were told to check-in 2 hrs before, had their bags searched and their nail clippers confiscated. If the aircrews worked to rule to the extent the 'support' staff do the AT fleet would grind to a halt within hours!, but rules is rules and I voz only carrying out orders, (sorry beags for pinching your line)