Navigators
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Navigators
I don't like to crash into your military site, but would like to ask a question to anyone who knows.
What do navigators do after leaving the service?
What sort of jobs do they do?
Do any take a reduction in salary when they leave?
Just I am thinking of joining the service as a nav, but I'm concerned about what I would do when it comes to leaving!
Any comments would be helpfull
Thanks
CARL
[ 06 September 2001: Message edited by: Carl ]
What do navigators do after leaving the service?
What sort of jobs do they do?
Do any take a reduction in salary when they leave?
Just I am thinking of joining the service as a nav, but I'm concerned about what I would do when it comes to leaving!
Any comments would be helpfull
Thanks
CARL
[ 06 September 2001: Message edited by: Carl ]
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Or.. you could give a sensible answer as one who has just left and was a Nav for 11 years.
I'm a IT company director, have taken no drop in wages. Sometimes work 9-5 but my use of time is up to me. Sure, its not flying as some would say but I wouldn't have left if I wanted to remain flying!
I'm a IT company director, have taken no drop in wages. Sometimes work 9-5 but my use of time is up to me. Sure, its not flying as some would say but I wouldn't have left if I wanted to remain flying!
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Dear Carl,
Whilst not wishing to "rain upon your parade", I find myself in the hitherto unknown position of actually agreeing with B.Eagle!
Some facts about Navigators;
a) There are very few of them that can actually tell you where you ARE! - sure, they can tell you where you have been, or indeed where you are going!! But that was not the question in point.
b) Inertial Navigation Units stop whining when the engines are shut down.
c) An anagram of the word NAVIGATOR becomes vag*** rot.
Good luck in your decision,-- but I would recommend that you think twice!!
P.S. Yes I am aware that an I.N.U. cannot buy you a drink in a bar,--but then again I have met very few Navigators that would do that anyway!!
P.P.S -- You only have to punch the information into an Inertial Nav:Unit once.
Whilst not wishing to "rain upon your parade", I find myself in the hitherto unknown position of actually agreeing with B.Eagle!
Some facts about Navigators;
a) There are very few of them that can actually tell you where you ARE! - sure, they can tell you where you have been, or indeed where you are going!! But that was not the question in point.
b) Inertial Navigation Units stop whining when the engines are shut down.
c) An anagram of the word NAVIGATOR becomes vag*** rot.
Good luck in your decision,-- but I would recommend that you think twice!!
P.S. Yes I am aware that an I.N.U. cannot buy you a drink in a bar,--but then again I have met very few Navigators that would do that anyway!!
P.P.S -- You only have to punch the information into an Inertial Nav:Unit once.
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Carl,
I'm struggling to be serious but you'll have to forgive me as I'm a driver and not a Nav.
So (suppressing obvious desire towards sacrasm and ridicule), I have a mate who was a Nav (not that I tell people this) who did get out and scored a job in IT earning excellent money selling computer networks. And if you don't get out (or can't score a job outside), stay in, rise in rank and screw everything up for the rest of us.
Then again you could just study that little bit harder and get a real job.
[ 07 September 2001: Message edited by: Trash 'N' Navs ]
I'm struggling to be serious but you'll have to forgive me as I'm a driver and not a Nav.
So (suppressing obvious desire towards sacrasm and ridicule), I have a mate who was a Nav (not that I tell people this) who did get out and scored a job in IT earning excellent money selling computer networks. And if you don't get out (or can't score a job outside), stay in, rise in rank and screw everything up for the rest of us.
Then again you could just study that little bit harder and get a real job.
[ 07 September 2001: Message edited by: Trash 'N' Navs ]
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Had a Pole or Czech instructor at ocu many moons ago who was wont to proclaim
"All navigators are inferior clay, give me monkeys and I will teach them to do the same job".
50% of the course were navs and it went over a treat with them !
"All navigators are inferior clay, give me monkeys and I will teach them to do the same job".
50% of the course were navs and it went over a treat with them !
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Wasn't John Nichol a Navigator? He's doing OK now isn't he?
Has anyone seen him begging outside the RAF club holding a sign that says,
"Successful author, TV Commentator, recently married, documentary producer, PLEASE GIVE GENEROUSLY!"
Sorry John, couldn't resist it.
Has anyone seen him begging outside the RAF club holding a sign that says,
"Successful author, TV Commentator, recently married, documentary producer, PLEASE GIVE GENEROUSLY!"
Sorry John, couldn't resist it.
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Carl
Think long and hard before you decide to "go Nav". Navs are a dying breed within the RAF and non-existent on the outside - a definite limitation to your job prospects. If you are planning to do an MBA as well, fine.
The number of stations/jobs you could be posted to are rapidly declining so your world within the RAF would be MUCH more limited than that of a pilot.
... and you will have to put up with lots of pee taking above examples say it all.
Having said all that, if you do decide to go for it, I wish you all the luck in the world.
Yours etc
Wife of ex-Nav
Think long and hard before you decide to "go Nav". Navs are a dying breed within the RAF and non-existent on the outside - a definite limitation to your job prospects. If you are planning to do an MBA as well, fine.
The number of stations/jobs you could be posted to are rapidly declining so your world within the RAF would be MUCH more limited than that of a pilot.
... and you will have to put up with lots of pee taking
above examples say it all.Having said all that, if you do decide to go for it, I wish you all the luck in the world.
Yours etc
Wife of ex-Nav
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I thoroughly enjoyed my time flying with a Nav, got me out of a spot more than once.
This anti-Nav, Eng, Air Trafficker, Scribley, Stacker, etc stuff by fellow pilots is sadly more a reflection of the shallowness of their own character. Has always left me a bit cold.
Problem is, most pilots who fly with a navigator do not have ability to fly single seat so take it out on the poor old guy who is simply doing his job.
Numerous ex-Nav mates who are doing very well indeed in management, marketing, project management, IT etc. A few (generally those who have done the aerosystems course) still fly on airline salaries at places like Warton. But there is far more to life, and a person, than the ability to pole and I suspect employers beyond aviation know it.
This anti-Nav, Eng, Air Trafficker, Scribley, Stacker, etc stuff by fellow pilots is sadly more a reflection of the shallowness of their own character. Has always left me a bit cold.
Problem is, most pilots who fly with a navigator do not have ability to fly single seat so take it out on the poor old guy who is simply doing his job.
Numerous ex-Nav mates who are doing very well indeed in management, marketing, project management, IT etc. A few (generally those who have done the aerosystems course) still fly on airline salaries at places like Warton. But there is far more to life, and a person, than the ability to pole and I suspect employers beyond aviation know it.
I'm not a nav as such but have a reasonable number of hours in the back of fast jets as an FTO, which is a similar trade.
Navs coming out the service have a number of advantages: -
- They are very well trained in professional aviation.
- A very deep systems knowledge (especially if they've done the air systems course)
- An RAF Pedigree
- They are well trained diplomats, anybody who can cope permanently sharing a cockpit with some of the more bloodyminded members of the master race has to be.
With this they go into many and various jobs. Some self-improve and become ATPLs, many end up working for firms like BAe, Lockheed-Martin, etc. as systems designers / analysts / project managers. There are also jobs as civilian instructors, etc. One of the best Engineers I've ever worked with wasn't formally qualified as such, he was a Tornado Nav who had done the Air Systems Course.
Frankly if it's what's on offer, I'd go for it. Also, just as many FTOs end up TPs, there are many Navs who have re-trained partway through their career as pilots (as F3 phases out in favour of EFA there'll be quite a few of these).
G
Navs coming out the service have a number of advantages: -
- They are very well trained in professional aviation.
- A very deep systems knowledge (especially if they've done the air systems course)
- An RAF Pedigree
- They are well trained diplomats, anybody who can cope permanently sharing a cockpit with some of the more bloodyminded members of the master race has to be.
With this they go into many and various jobs. Some self-improve and become ATPLs, many end up working for firms like BAe, Lockheed-Martin, etc. as systems designers / analysts / project managers. There are also jobs as civilian instructors, etc. One of the best Engineers I've ever worked with wasn't formally qualified as such, he was a Tornado Nav who had done the Air Systems Course.
Frankly if it's what's on offer, I'd go for it. Also, just as many FTOs end up TPs, there are many Navs who have re-trained partway through their career as pilots (as F3 phases out in favour of EFA there'll be quite a few of these).
G
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Low & Slow:
Regarding your career advice as evidenced by JN: nice one - join as a NCO, convert to a nav, get shot down, beaten up, bombed by your own side etc, and hence become a media celeb.
There must be an easier way to make a living after the RAF, but John's certainly set a great example!
On the original post: go for it. I'm sadly too old to join now, but wish I'd persisted, and would gladly have been a nav if the opportunity had come up - even if its the air force equivalent of being a drummer!
Regarding your career advice as evidenced by JN: nice one - join as a NCO, convert to a nav, get shot down, beaten up, bombed by your own side etc, and hence become a media celeb.
There must be an easier way to make a living after the RAF, but John's certainly set a great example!
On the original post: go for it. I'm sadly too old to join now, but wish I'd persisted, and would gladly have been a nav if the opportunity had come up - even if its the air force equivalent of being a drummer!
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I'm all up for the batter, but from what I've seen above you people sitting up front don't seem to like the guys and girls sitting behind you!
I did want to sit at the front, but for medical problems I couldn't sit in that seat so looked at the next best thing I could think of.
I've been through the selection. Got the Flying Scholarship, Gliding Scholarship passed the aptitude for pilot. But failed the medical.
I've wanted to do the pilot thing since I can remember! Only I'm realistic and know that its never going to happen.
I've even contacted other air forces but with no luck.
I want to become a nav as from the outside world I see it better than sitting in an office typing at a computer.
But I don't want to feel embarrassed by my occupation! From what I've seen above Navs are the laughing stock of the RAF. Why I don't know!!
I still would really like to do the job, and probably will after finishing uni if everything goes ok at OASC.
Thanks for the advice all
P.s. I've had to write this reply very quickly and haven't had time to read it properly so sorry if there are any mistakes!
I did want to sit at the front, but for medical problems I couldn't sit in that seat so looked at the next best thing I could think of.
I've been through the selection. Got the Flying Scholarship, Gliding Scholarship passed the aptitude for pilot. But failed the medical.
I've wanted to do the pilot thing since I can remember! Only I'm realistic and know that its never going to happen.
I've even contacted other air forces but with no luck.
I want to become a nav as from the outside world I see it better than sitting in an office typing at a computer.
But I don't want to feel embarrassed by my occupation! From what I've seen above Navs are the laughing stock of the RAF. Why I don't know!!
I still would really like to do the job, and probably will after finishing uni if everything goes ok at OASC.
Thanks for the advice all
P.s. I've had to write this reply very quickly and haven't had time to read it properly so sorry if there are any mistakes!
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Carl,
Forget it if you're expecting to receive useful advice on PPRUNE. The replies above should indicate to you that it is frequented by mis-informed prats with too much time on their hands. If you want to fly HM's aircraft, but are unable to go pilot for medical reasons, then nav is the next best thing and there'll be plenty of jobs for the next 3 decades. However, your best course of action is to organize a visit to a station where you can get to meet some real people and see what they do.
Finally, jobs that ex-nav mates of mine now do: Airline pilot, lawyer, teacher, programme manager, defence industry, IT, Air Traffic Control..... as you can see, you will not be short of options if/when you leave.
Forget it if you're expecting to receive useful advice on PPRUNE. The replies above should indicate to you that it is frequented by mis-informed prats with too much time on their hands. If you want to fly HM's aircraft, but are unable to go pilot for medical reasons, then nav is the next best thing and there'll be plenty of jobs for the next 3 decades. However, your best course of action is to organize a visit to a station where you can get to meet some real people and see what they do.
Finally, jobs that ex-nav mates of mine now do: Airline pilot, lawyer, teacher, programme manager, defence industry, IT, Air Traffic Control..... as you can see, you will not be short of options if/when you leave.
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Cheer up Carl! Pilot/Navigator banter has always been robust. In the USAF it is quite vicious because it is written into their constitution (or somewhere) that ONLY pilots can command units.
An old mate dropped in today - FAA at the end of WW2 but saw the light and transferred to the RAF and became a testosterone-fuelled fighter pilot. Eventually he got old and was posted to Canberras. He was wary of his Nav (couldn't quite figure out what he was for) and asked his boss. "Don't worry" quoth the Wingco "Buy him plenty of beer and fatten him up. In a survival situation you can always eat him".
An old mate dropped in today - FAA at the end of WW2 but saw the light and transferred to the RAF and became a testosterone-fuelled fighter pilot. Eventually he got old and was posted to Canberras. He was wary of his Nav (couldn't quite figure out what he was for) and asked his boss. "Don't worry" quoth the Wingco "Buy him plenty of beer and fatten him up. In a survival situation you can always eat him".
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GOD FORBID that the 2 winged master race should tell the truth but remember as a Nav/ WSO (no truth in the rumour that you will have to have a W on your brevet), you don't sign for the jet,you get paid pretty much the same and you can catch 40 winks on a transit when the nose gunner is following the tanker. 
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nose gunner? Who said that??
In response to the original question:
Although in fast jets the pilot is always the captain, there is absolutely no divide in the aircraft when you are operating properly. A good nav will massively increase the capability of the aircraft (and a bad one will drag it down) - the same as the pilot, you just work as a crew.
Obviously there are good ones, bad ones and complete arses, but on the whole I probably know more pilots that are arses than navs! If you want to be a nav and are good at your job then you will receive the appropriate (grudging?) respect from all quarters.
If you want to operate a military fast jet (the only way to live!) and have been excluded from pilot then go for nav. As you may have noticed, you will have to take a bit of banter, but don't we all! At the end of the day, if I had to go to war (a proper one where people got shot down) I'll take an extra pair of eyes, ears and whatever else every time.
See, we don't all hate navs.
In response to the original question:
Although in fast jets the pilot is always the captain, there is absolutely no divide in the aircraft when you are operating properly. A good nav will massively increase the capability of the aircraft (and a bad one will drag it down) - the same as the pilot, you just work as a crew.
Obviously there are good ones, bad ones and complete arses, but on the whole I probably know more pilots that are arses than navs! If you want to be a nav and are good at your job then you will receive the appropriate (grudging?) respect from all quarters.
If you want to operate a military fast jet (the only way to live!) and have been excluded from pilot then go for nav. As you may have noticed, you will have to take a bit of banter, but don't we all! At the end of the day, if I had to go to war (a proper one where people got shot down) I'll take an extra pair of eyes, ears and whatever else every time.
See, we don't all hate navs.