Soldier refused service in Witney pub . . . because he was in uniform
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: West Sussex
Posts: 1,771
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In the late 1980's, self and a BAe colleague visited an apparently pleasant pub in Guildford, Surrey.
The service ( by Irish staff, what a coincidence ) was appalling, and despite the place being virtually empty we were asked to move so that a more profitable family could have our seats, placing us on uncomfortable seats by a draughty open door, with no view.
On the way out via a different door, we saw a sign, " NO Forces Personnel served here ".
I still take that to mean anyone young & fit with a short haircut, taking objection to any uniform just being an added bonus.
Guildford is indeed quite a violent town, largely thanks to the surrounding gypsy camps, and several pubs ( some in what would think surprisingly high class areas ) are known as drug supply points run by gypsies, including, I found later, guess where ?
Safe to say that while I am not and never have been directly in the forces, just worked with / for them, if I ever see a pub or shop with a ' no forces ' sign, I take my business elsewhere, having first explained to the nearest thing to a manager possible, why.
The service ( by Irish staff, what a coincidence ) was appalling, and despite the place being virtually empty we were asked to move so that a more profitable family could have our seats, placing us on uncomfortable seats by a draughty open door, with no view.
On the way out via a different door, we saw a sign, " NO Forces Personnel served here ".
I still take that to mean anyone young & fit with a short haircut, taking objection to any uniform just being an added bonus.
Guildford is indeed quite a violent town, largely thanks to the surrounding gypsy camps, and several pubs ( some in what would think surprisingly high class areas ) are known as drug supply points run by gypsies, including, I found later, guess where ?
Safe to say that while I am not and never have been directly in the forces, just worked with / for them, if I ever see a pub or shop with a ' no forces ' sign, I take my business elsewhere, having first explained to the nearest thing to a manager possible, why.
Thread Starter
There was actually a pretty reasonable Editorial in today's Oxford Mail about this:
Ban sends out the wrong message
The answer to whether uniformed service personnel should be free to go into pubs is one that must be guided by common sense.
Guardsman Brad Thomas was shocked that he and fellow Grenadier Jimmy Nuttal were refused service when they stopped for lunch in the Cross Keys pub in Witney while recruiting in the town.
The pub was under the impression RAF Brize Norton had issued an edict that personnel in uniform should not be served. While this is not true, more general guidance is againt going into a pub in uniform unless it is connected to an event such as a wedding or a funeral.
But it must be a case of degrees.
A large group of service personnel on a night out would potentially attract trouble, and so you can appreciate military chiefs' desire to play safe.
But two men out recruiting and looking for lunch and a soft drink in the middle of the day is surely a different proposition.
One of the cores justifying our current conflicts is to preserve our freedoms. If our servicement are not free to pop into a pub for lunch without fearing that their uniforms will attract aggression, then what freedoms are we fighting for?
And what type of message did this episode send to those potential recruits the two guardsmen were speaking to who then saw them turned away for wearing the uniform of their own country?
The answer to whether uniformed service personnel should be free to go into pubs is one that must be guided by common sense.
Guardsman Brad Thomas was shocked that he and fellow Grenadier Jimmy Nuttal were refused service when they stopped for lunch in the Cross Keys pub in Witney while recruiting in the town.
The pub was under the impression RAF Brize Norton had issued an edict that personnel in uniform should not be served. While this is not true, more general guidance is againt going into a pub in uniform unless it is connected to an event such as a wedding or a funeral.
But it must be a case of degrees.
A large group of service personnel on a night out would potentially attract trouble, and so you can appreciate military chiefs' desire to play safe.
But two men out recruiting and looking for lunch and a soft drink in the middle of the day is surely a different proposition.
One of the cores justifying our current conflicts is to preserve our freedoms. If our servicement are not free to pop into a pub for lunch without fearing that their uniforms will attract aggression, then what freedoms are we fighting for?
And what type of message did this episode send to those potential recruits the two guardsmen were speaking to who then saw them turned away for wearing the uniform of their own country?
Last edited by BEagle; 20th Nov 2009 at 19:31. Reason: formatting and ad-shifting
R O G:
Well indeed, but as the latter was Out of Bounds, to appear there in Uniform would merely have been adding fuel to the fire. The result would inevitably have been that well practiced dramatic scenario in which Snowdrop intones with Puritanical solemnity; "In which establishment I encountered the accused, whom I now recognise. He stated that I could buy my own, or words to that effect. I then proceeded to caution him whereupon he announced that his companion was both a lady and a very dear friend".
...those of us who remember the Gut, HK, and Bugis St are right!!
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: in my combat underpants
Age: 53
Posts: 1,065
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Could you explain further Mr H? Is this your real world we are talking about or do we all share in it? Is the real world one of fun, fear, excitement, danger and responsibility or is it a proscribed socialists ideal where our "masters " know best?
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
Why is it always assumed that men in uniform go into a pub, with the sole intention of getting drunk? A most bigoted view in my opinion.
Guildford is indeed quite a violent town, largely thanks to the surrounding gypsy camps, and several pubs ( some in what would think surprisingly high class areas ) are known as drug supply points run by gypsies, including, I found later, guess where ?
vecvechookattack There is of course a very good reason why the MOD ban the wearing of Uniform in a Public house.
When I joined in the early 80s no-one used to bat an eyelid if you went into a pub and had a couple of beers in uniform. In fact you were positively welcomed. Oh how things have changed. Mind you I blame these two for drinking in Witney, should have gone to Burford, Clanfield, Bampton or any of the Wychwoods!! Much nicer!!
Thread Starter
As the recruiting display was in Market Square, the nearest place to have a bite of lunch was probably the Cross Keys.
Hardly unreasonable for them to pop in for a quick snack, in my opinion.
The Oxford Mail's editorial was quite reasonable, I thought.
I agree with your assessment of other Cotswold watering holes though, Roly! Incidentally, the infamous Osprey in Soweto has been closed for years now and is slowly falling apart. A pity that, although Defence Estates have cleared most of the seedy 'crack houses', eyesores such as the Osprey and the disused petrol station next to it remain such blots on the landscape.
Hardly unreasonable for them to pop in for a quick snack, in my opinion.
The Oxford Mail's editorial was quite reasonable, I thought.
I agree with your assessment of other Cotswold watering holes though, Roly! Incidentally, the infamous Osprey in Soweto has been closed for years now and is slowly falling apart. A pity that, although Defence Estates have cleared most of the seedy 'crack houses', eyesores such as the Osprey and the disused petrol station next to it remain such blots on the landscape.
Thread Starter
Compare such nannying nonsense with the US.....
Some years ago, whilst waiting for a bit to arrive for our broken FunBus at McConnell AFB, we were having lunch and a beer in an establishment some of you might know - Hooters
.
Shortly after we arrived, 4 USAF pilots in flight suits entered - they were on a cross-country in a couple of T-37s and had stopped by for lunch. No-one batted an eyelid at this; it seemed to be a normal everyday occurence.
Mind you, I don't know whether the scourge of political correctness would allow such things nowadays.....
Some years ago, whilst waiting for a bit to arrive for our broken FunBus at McConnell AFB, we were having lunch and a beer in an establishment some of you might know - Hooters
.Shortly after we arrived, 4 USAF pilots in flight suits entered - they were on a cross-country in a couple of T-37s and had stopped by for lunch. No-one batted an eyelid at this; it seemed to be a normal everyday occurence.
Mind you, I don't know whether the scourge of political correctness would allow such things nowadays.....
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: in my combat underpants
Age: 53
Posts: 1,065
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A pedant would point out that, this includes any premises where the sale of alcohol is licensed, including many supermarkets.
ALWAYS assume NEVER check
ALWAYS assume NEVER check
Out of interest - how many of the hand-wringing permissives on this thread have actually been commanders of flights or squadrons of non-flying airmen and women?
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: South of Old Warden
Age: 87
Posts: 1,375
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Out of interest - how many of the hand-wringing permissives on this thread have actually been commanders of flights or squadrons of non-flying airmen and women
Double Zero,
Heh, you missed gays, blacks, Islamists and women in your nasty little prejudiced xenophobic rant!
You clearly know a very different Guildford from the one I spend a considerable amount of time in and around.
Get over your problem with Gypsies!
Heh, you missed gays, blacks, Islamists and women in your nasty little prejudiced xenophobic rant!
You clearly know a very different Guildford from the one I spend a considerable amount of time in and around.
Get over your problem with Gypsies!
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Mr C Hinecap
Actually - someone who had worked in the industry would tell you that licensed premises are where alcohol could be purchased AND consumed rather than just purchased. In old money, one is an 'on' license and the other an 'off' license. Thanks for calling.
- The sale or supply of alcohol.
- Provision of regulated entertainment
- Provision of late night refreshment
So no doubt the Fun Police (of which you seem to be OC) could enforce the quoted regulation ("Visits to licensed premises (including when not consuming alcohol), except when specifically approved by the Chain of Command.") in the case of someone popping into Sainsburys to do a bit of shopping on the way home without a note from their Flight Commander.
ETA: Sorry, forgot to say ... Thank you for calling.
Last edited by Ray Dahvectac; 21st Nov 2009 at 11:54. Reason: Typo
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
we were having lunch and a beer in an establishment some of you might know - Hooters .
Join Date: May 2006
Location: 2 m South of Radstock VRP
Posts: 2,042
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by pr00ne
Get over your problem with Gypsies!