Sunday Times Story - RAF cuts to bases & Planes (merged)
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RAF plans huge cuts in planes and bases
From today's (tomorrow's?) Times.
The headline isn't exaggerating either - the proposed cuts are rather deep. Note also that these are allegedly preemptive proposals by CAS and not yet plans to be implemented. Making allowances for the usual journalistic lack of detail, I'm assuming that the early retirement of the Tornado fleet referred to is F3 only. The tediously predicatable comments about giving all of the helicopters to the AAC and disbanding the RAF have already appeared below the article.
What I have started wondering about is if a 31 000 person strong RAF is an opportunity to reduce the rank of future CinC AIRs to AM, supported by two AVMs. It would certainly help reduce talk of excessive numbers of very senior types in a (by then) tiny air force.
The headline isn't exaggerating either - the proposed cuts are rather deep. Note also that these are allegedly preemptive proposals by CAS and not yet plans to be implemented. Making allowances for the usual journalistic lack of detail, I'm assuming that the early retirement of the Tornado fleet referred to is F3 only. The tediously predicatable comments about giving all of the helicopters to the AAC and disbanding the RAF have already appeared below the article.
What I have started wondering about is if a 31 000 person strong RAF is an opportunity to reduce the rank of future CinC AIRs to AM, supported by two AVMs. It would certainly help reduce talk of excessive numbers of very senior types in a (by then) tiny air force.
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Sunday Times Story - RAF cuts to bases & Planes (merged)
The linky is here
RAF plans huge cuts in planes and bases - Times Online
Summary:
Air Force chiefs are preparing to cut 10,000 staff — a quarter of their manpower — and close up to five large air bases.
It also intends to retire the majority of its Harrier and Tornado jets early, leaving it with about 80 fewer aircraft by 2025. The cuts are part of a package prepared for the 2010 annual spending round.
The bases most at risk include RAF Cottesmore in Rutland and RAF Wittering in Cambridgeshire, both of which will close when the Harrier fleet is retired.
One of either RAF Marham in Norfolk or RAF Lossiemouth in Morayshire is under threat because of planned cuts to joint strike fighter numbers. So, too, is RAF Kinloss in Morayshire, with the new Nimrod MRA4 expected to move to RAF Waddington in Lincolnshire.
One plan under consideration would see all RAF fast jet training moving to RAF Valley in Anglesey, leading to the possible closure of RAF Linton-on-Ouse and RAF Leeming, both in North Yorkshire.
Other proposals would see all the RAF’s Merlin helicopters move from RAF Benson in Oxfordshire to a joint RAF/RN station at what is currently Royal Naval Air Station Culdrose in Cornwall.
? Is this proposal a stalking horse like RNs plan to convert one of the CVS to a LPH (which is really a CVS without fixed wing)?
RAF plans huge cuts in planes and bases - Times Online
Summary:
Air Force chiefs are preparing to cut 10,000 staff — a quarter of their manpower — and close up to five large air bases.
It also intends to retire the majority of its Harrier and Tornado jets early, leaving it with about 80 fewer aircraft by 2025. The cuts are part of a package prepared for the 2010 annual spending round.
The bases most at risk include RAF Cottesmore in Rutland and RAF Wittering in Cambridgeshire, both of which will close when the Harrier fleet is retired.
One of either RAF Marham in Norfolk or RAF Lossiemouth in Morayshire is under threat because of planned cuts to joint strike fighter numbers. So, too, is RAF Kinloss in Morayshire, with the new Nimrod MRA4 expected to move to RAF Waddington in Lincolnshire.
One plan under consideration would see all RAF fast jet training moving to RAF Valley in Anglesey, leading to the possible closure of RAF Linton-on-Ouse and RAF Leeming, both in North Yorkshire.
Other proposals would see all the RAF’s Merlin helicopters move from RAF Benson in Oxfordshire to a joint RAF/RN station at what is currently Royal Naval Air Station Culdrose in Cornwall.
? Is this proposal a stalking horse like RNs plan to convert one of the CVS to a LPH (which is really a CVS without fixed wing)?
Hmmm, should I be surprised? No. Still, we will get a boat load of future-irrelevant CH47s that won't all fit into Odiham soon. No doubt just in time for public opinion to swing against Afghanistan and a new Government pulling us out.
May as well just go back to the RFC and be done with the RAF. JHC will become the overarching air power expert with loads of troop movers and AH. Who needs Typhoon??
Bet the Chinese or any future adversary are looking on and rubbing their hands with glee whilst dusting off the ICBMs and AAR missiles. What Gordon Brown called the Battle for the Banks is over; The Battle of Britain is just about to begin -except this time there will be no RAF to defend us from the marauders over the Channel
May as well just go back to the RFC and be done with the RAF. JHC will become the overarching air power expert with loads of troop movers and AH. Who needs Typhoon??
Bet the Chinese or any future adversary are looking on and rubbing their hands with glee whilst dusting off the ICBMs and AAR missiles. What Gordon Brown called the Battle for the Banks is over; The Battle of Britain is just about to begin -except this time there will be no RAF to defend us from the marauders over the Channel
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Hope this is scope for a potential round of redundancies, because I have had enough and could do with a golden exit. 10k personnel is surely a death blow to the RAF as an institution. It seems that bean counters are shuffling peoples lives around as if the subsequent consequences in further deteriating morale and unstable family lives do not matter a hoot. Last one out etc etc ....and apparently in Europe only the UK & Spain remain in recession so optimism that an upbeat economy is short finals (relatively speaking) must be realistic along with the associated improvement in the civilian job market.
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DR
Don't expect a golden exit! Even if they do introduce a redundancy scheme (and I think that's very unlikely), it won't be as generous as it once was. Remember that the redundancy provisions changed on 1st April last year. See the DIN.
2006DIN02-216
Don't expect a golden exit! Even if they do introduce a redundancy scheme (and I think that's very unlikely), it won't be as generous as it once was. Remember that the redundancy provisions changed on 1st April last year. See the DIN.
2006DIN02-216
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Shortage of space unfortunately leads to cuts in the article to remove the detail. The Tornados are not just the F3s. All the Harriers to go over the next five years and the Tornados to go as well over a longer period allowing for replacement by Tranche 2 & 3 Typhoons. By 2025, all the Tornados, bar nine, oddly to have gone. Interestingly the 2025 figure projects nine Tornados (why keep just nine?), 120 Typhoons (all Tranche 2/3) and 50-60 JSF which are now expected to be all that will be bought, so these proposals assume all fast jets to be under light blue control, which is not likely to be popular with naval chiefs.
I’m the last man left in the Air Force.
I’ve an office in MOD
And a copy of Queen’s Regulations
Which only apply to me.
I can post myself to Leuchars
And detach me from there to Kinloss
Or send me on courses to MOTU
Then cancel the lot – I’m the boss.
I’m the last man left in the Air Force,
But the great Parliamentary brains
Omitted, when cancelling people,
To sell off the stations and planes.
The result is my Inventory bulges
With KD and campstools and Quarters.
Plus a signed book of verses by Trenchard
Which I keep for impressing reporters.
I’m the last man left in the Air Force
I suppose you imagine it’s great
To be master of all you survey, but
I tell you it’s difficult, mate.
I inspected three Units last Thursday
As C-in-C (Acting) Strike.
Then I swept half the runway at Laarbruch
And repaired Saxa Vord's station bike.
I’m the last man left in the Air Force
It’s not doing a lot for my health.
Station Sports Days are frankly exhausting
When the Victor Ludorum’s oneself.
On Guest Nights the Mess is so lonely
There are times that I wish I were able
To pass the port to the chap on my left
Without watching it fall off the table.
I’m the last man left in the Air Force
It's quiet – but that apart –
There are plenty worse off, for example,
The only Sea Lord, for a start.
He was called out last Wednesday evening
(Joint Ops with the Army my oath)
But their rowing boat sank in the Channel
Which obliged me to rescue them both.
I’m the last man left in the Air Force
My wife says I'm never at home
When I’m not flying Hercs I'm at Manston
Laying gallons and gallons of foam
Or I’m in my marine craft off Plymouth,
Shooting flares at the crowds on the Ho,
Or I’m Orderly Corporal at Luqa –
It’s an interesting life, but all go!
I’m the last man in the Air Force
I’m ADC to The Queen
I’m Duty Clerk at St Mawgan
I’m the RAF rugby team.
Tomorrow I’m planning a guardroom
And air-testing several planes
The day after that I’m for London
To preach at St Clement Danes.
I’m the last man in the Air Force
And I’m due to go out before long
There's been no talk of any replacement
And I won’t even let me sign on.
I hope to enjoy my retirement
I’ve put up a fairly good show
And I won’t cut myself off entirely
There are always reunions, you know!
Peter Wyton
I’ve an office in MOD
And a copy of Queen’s Regulations
Which only apply to me.
I can post myself to Leuchars
And detach me from there to Kinloss
Or send me on courses to MOTU
Then cancel the lot – I’m the boss.
I’m the last man left in the Air Force,
But the great Parliamentary brains
Omitted, when cancelling people,
To sell off the stations and planes.
The result is my Inventory bulges
With KD and campstools and Quarters.
Plus a signed book of verses by Trenchard
Which I keep for impressing reporters.
I’m the last man left in the Air Force
I suppose you imagine it’s great
To be master of all you survey, but
I tell you it’s difficult, mate.
I inspected three Units last Thursday
As C-in-C (Acting) Strike.
Then I swept half the runway at Laarbruch
And repaired Saxa Vord's station bike.
I’m the last man left in the Air Force
It’s not doing a lot for my health.
Station Sports Days are frankly exhausting
When the Victor Ludorum’s oneself.
On Guest Nights the Mess is so lonely
There are times that I wish I were able
To pass the port to the chap on my left
Without watching it fall off the table.
I’m the last man left in the Air Force
It's quiet – but that apart –
There are plenty worse off, for example,
The only Sea Lord, for a start.
He was called out last Wednesday evening
(Joint Ops with the Army my oath)
But their rowing boat sank in the Channel
Which obliged me to rescue them both.
I’m the last man left in the Air Force
My wife says I'm never at home
When I’m not flying Hercs I'm at Manston
Laying gallons and gallons of foam
Or I’m in my marine craft off Plymouth,
Shooting flares at the crowds on the Ho,
Or I’m Orderly Corporal at Luqa –
It’s an interesting life, but all go!
I’m the last man in the Air Force
I’m ADC to The Queen
I’m Duty Clerk at St Mawgan
I’m the RAF rugby team.
Tomorrow I’m planning a guardroom
And air-testing several planes
The day after that I’m for London
To preach at St Clement Danes.
I’m the last man in the Air Force
And I’m due to go out before long
There's been no talk of any replacement
And I won’t even let me sign on.
I hope to enjoy my retirement
I’ve put up a fairly good show
And I won’t cut myself off entirely
There are always reunions, you know!
Peter Wyton
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Had a look at the quoted DIN, only to find it out of date regarding 05 TOS and early departures. That said, a years pay and the PA pension & lump sum (which I assume would be unaffected) would be good enough to go.
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These will be 'options' from the PR10 work. If you have never been involved in options for these rounds, something like this might be a bit of a shock. Pretty much every option has to be put up for review - no matter how unpleasant they might be - with the numbers next to them. The grown ups can then look to see what is what, and make decisions from there.
I'm quite sure the RN and Army are doing exactly the same with some pretty big calls in their options.
I'm quite sure the RN and Army are doing exactly the same with some pretty big calls in their options.
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Strictly speaking, under the rules of false representation, should the name be changed to 'RA' instead of 'RAF?' Soon enough our pilots will be dropping aim9's out of C150's.
It's a real shame. Especially given the recent information of MOD bonuses.
It's a real shame. Especially given the recent information of MOD bonuses.
The last time the RAF was so pitifully small was in the early 1930s. Yet somehow its strength then rose to over a million during World War 2.
In 1952, the RAF had about 171500 personnel to defend a UK population of 52million. Or around 292 people for each RAF member.
By 1957, the RAF rose to a strength of 228000 and even after the disaster of Duncan Sandys infamous 1957 Defence White Paper, the strength in 1958 was around 193000 - but decreasing still.
When I joined the RAF, cuts were underway to reduce the 1968 strength of 121000 down to 97000. Largely by withdrawing from East of Suez....
Since then it was nothing but cut after cut, coupled with increasing overstretch. If the strength (sic) falls to 30000, with the interests of a UK population of around 62million to defend, each RAF serviceman will need to defend 2066 people, or around 7 times as many as his/her 1952 colleague.
RAF strength should be 171500 x (62/50) to be on a par with 1952 levels - around 213000. And of course the 50 or so RAF stations closed over the last 50 years would need to be reopened.
Of course it'll never happen, thanks to the 'Abominable no-men' of the Treasury, as once they were described in a parliamentary debate on the Air Estimates.
Why doesn't one of the lurking journos on PPRuNe write an article on the scale of the problem, highlighting how ill-equipped the UK now is to defend itself.
In 1952, the RAF had about 171500 personnel to defend a UK population of 52million. Or around 292 people for each RAF member.
By 1957, the RAF rose to a strength of 228000 and even after the disaster of Duncan Sandys infamous 1957 Defence White Paper, the strength in 1958 was around 193000 - but decreasing still.
When I joined the RAF, cuts were underway to reduce the 1968 strength of 121000 down to 97000. Largely by withdrawing from East of Suez....
Since then it was nothing but cut after cut, coupled with increasing overstretch. If the strength (sic) falls to 30000, with the interests of a UK population of around 62million to defend, each RAF serviceman will need to defend 2066 people, or around 7 times as many as his/her 1952 colleague.
RAF strength should be 171500 x (62/50) to be on a par with 1952 levels - around 213000. And of course the 50 or so RAF stations closed over the last 50 years would need to be reopened.
Of course it'll never happen, thanks to the 'Abominable no-men' of the Treasury, as once they were described in a parliamentary debate on the Air Estimates.
Why doesn't one of the lurking journos on PPRuNe write an article on the scale of the problem, highlighting how ill-equipped the UK now is to defend itself.
Why 9 Tornadoes? Could there be a hidden message here? I'm only guessing but perhaps they have let the cat out of the bag and the Nuclear role is coming back to the RAF??? Subs are very expensive to operate after all and this will be no ordinary defense review -UK PLC is broke!
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Beagle
I think the Plan is that UK will not be threatened by anyone in the forseeable future and the only operations the UKDF will be involved in will be COIN ops in Afghanistan.
So if we have to go to Korea or Down South or Central America we will be stuffed.
I think the Plan is that UK will not be threatened by anyone in the forseeable future and the only operations the UKDF will be involved in will be COIN ops in Afghanistan.
So if we have to go to Korea or Down South or Central America we will be stuffed.
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Maybe ditching the Arrows is what is needed to get the message across to the greater public - the Reds are the face of the RAF to most, and if they were chopped the national outcry would be vast, as proven by previous rumours of their demise. It may be the only way to get across to the public the perilous state of our Armed Forces.
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I have to agree. If the threat of disbanding the Red Arrows was made public then maybe Joe Public would sit up and listen. But if the RAF Can't afford to have a Formation display team as well as fighter aircraft then what does Joe Public want.....Do they want to be defended from the Squadrons of enemy aircraft swarming over our cities and dropping bombs or do they want to be entertained at an Airshow?
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In 1952, the RAF had about 171500 personnel to defend a UK population of 52million. Or around 292 people for each RAF member.
By 1957, the RAF rose to a strength of 228000 and even after the disaster of Duncan Sandys infamous 1957 Defence White Paper, the strength in 1958 was around 193000 - but decreasing still.
When I joined the RAF, cuts were underway to reduce the 1968 strength of 121000 down to 97000. Largely by withdrawing from East of Suez....
By 1957, the RAF rose to a strength of 228000 and even after the disaster of Duncan Sandys infamous 1957 Defence White Paper, the strength in 1958 was around 193000 - but decreasing still.
When I joined the RAF, cuts were underway to reduce the 1968 strength of 121000 down to 97000. Largely by withdrawing from East of Suez....