Sierra Hotel

I am aware that upon completion of occifer training, graduates are given seniority based on the length of their degree course. However, does a 4 year course leading to a Masters give the officer 4 years seniority, or 3 years seniority as it is beyond a Batchelors degree.

Saw something about it a while back in an RAF careers info booklet, but it was not very precise in its wording. (I take it that this applies to the Fleet Air Arm as well?)

Many Thanks
S

muppetofthenorth

The example I've always been quoted is the following:

3 friends would join the Air Force.

The first DE after their A Levels.
The second GE after a 3 yr course.
The third GE after a 4yr [Masters] course.

All would reach Flight Lieutenant at the same time.

I think I'm right in saying that that means the person completing their Masters gets to FLt just a year after graduating IOT.

buemphil

I have been told by someone that had just completed their IOT that they would serve a week as a Pilot Officer, and then be promoted to Flying Officer as they had a BSc.

He said that with a Masters I would then be given further promotion to Flight Lieutenant around 9 months after getting Flying officer. I haven’t seen this in any literature though, so cant be sure.

To be honest I just want to get in the service and worry about promotion when I’m in. It does make sense to reward advanced education in this way I feel.

Sierra Hotel

It wouldnt affect any descisions about joining, i was just wondering. For a graduate straight out of uni, its not too bad pay either way.

buemphil

The pay does seem good, especially after speaking to an officer the other day. He said he had worked out that the cheap living costs (while living in the mess, I assume) amount to a saving of around £10,000 a year.....which is nice!

Melchett01

SH,

As has already been said, worry about getting in first. But that's not to say you shouldn't also consider ToS.

Just because you have a 4yr degree, don't bank on getting enhanced seniority. I joined up at a time when they had little white pamphlets - Pam Air something or other which set out ToS and how long you would serve in each rank depending on your qualifications on joining up.

However, they belonged in the fiction section of the Cranwell Station Library as very few branch sponsors adhered to the policy set out in there. Had a very good friend with a 4 yr MA from Edinburgh who should have got enhanced seniority. However, her branch sponsor categorically refused it because she was on a 4 yr undergrad course rather than an undergrad cse + one year postgrad.

Not that having a postgrad MSc did me much good either. Despite the policy being set out in the relevant Pam AIR, I had to apply for the extra year seniority, got it, then when my branch sponsor changed, he decided it wasn't relevant (how is Meteorology qualification not relevant to the Air Force ) and took it all back off me. It was only through a lot of arguing that I managed to keep 6 months extra seniority.

They will do what they want when they want. If they want to attract you or keep you, you might be in luck. But given the current economic climate, they will probably feel they can be more robust in what conditions of service they offer people. Even without the extra year, you will still be getting a reasonable package by most standards.

ElSupremo

RE: Degrees

So what would to someone like me had done a 3 year law degree and then a 1 year post-grad law course which wasn't a masters (it was a Diploma - i.e the Legal Practice Course).

airborne_artist

El S - no masters = no additional seniority, I'm pretty certain.

ElSupremo

Oh right, so what advantage (to a lay person) does having a degree give you in terms of seniority? Where do ranks start without a degree and how many steps up do graduates start at? Additionally, is any of the training time reduced?

airborne_artist

No reduction in training time. Read the RAF recruitment info.

Essentially the services don't want to discourage graduates from applying, so they credit their time on their studies as seniority, recognising that while they may not have picked up professional knowledge (stand fast engineers, medics etc.) they have developed as individuals more than if they had bummed on a beach.

Melchett01

ES,

Ask these questions by all means, but don't get hung up on them - see the bigger picture. I mean would you really turn down a slot for your dream job just because of a few extra months on some seniority chart?

At the end of the day, a degree will mean you get to Flt Lt at roughly the same time of life / age as someone who comes in from school. That is the point of it. It is not to say that you are in some way better than someone without a degree, but that you are bringing qualifications rather than life experience to the organisation. We need academically strong individuals as much as we need common sense individuals (the 2 can be different!) it isn't fair to penalise either one for their choice in life made at 17/18, hence the concept of additional seniority.

There will be no reduction in training time, you will just go through training in a different rank. But if you want to distill it down to the absolute basics, you will get paid more than your less senior contemporaries, but equally more will be expected from you because of your rank. And speaking from experience, it can leave you feeling vulnerable as people will expect you to perform in the rank they see on your shoulders not necesarily based on your experience.

Daws_69

Hi all
sorry if this question has already been asked, but can you apply for more than one force at a time (i.e. RAF and Navy)? And is there a limit on how many times you can apply for both of these (other than of course the upper age limit). Finally, if you're at an interview at either one, and they ask you "are you considering the Navy/RAF"? Should you tell them if you are, or just lie and say your not
Thanks any answers appreciated

Wader2

It has.

Yes.

Yes

Yes

Daws_69

concise and to the point. Thanks

PBI

I don't think this has been covered yet.

I went to OASC at 17, and was told to come back with essentialy more life experience.I have been at University for 2 years, but have just taken a year out as I am mobilised with the RAF Regiment.

Now to be honest, I am not enjoying my time at University, and have no real interest in the subject I am studying.My question is this.

How would OASC view me dropping out of University, and going again for NCA, providing I had good reports from my 3 years as a reservist and my year on the regular sqn?

Wader2

PBI, with open arms I would imagine.

airborne_artist

I'm sure Wader is right, but the alternative is to knuckle down, complete your final year (assuming you are not at a Scottish uni?) and then apply for a commission. A commissioned graduate in any branch of any of the Services joins (yes joins...) on £29,006 pa. Your reserves experience should breeze you through much of OASC.

There's a lad who was on Pprune this time last year who was a TA Para L/Cpl (whilst at university, also mobilised for Telic), who also found OASC very straightforward, and is now starting flying training as a baby GD (P). PM me if you'd like his contact info - I'm sure he'd be happy to talk to you.

Slinky1989

Hey guys,

I'm looking at going into the RAF either as ground crew or ATC (would like to be a pilot but no idea if I'd pass the aptitude tests so trying to be realistic).

I left school last year after completing my A-levels (left with 7 GCSEs A - C grade and 2 A levels) and have since spent half of the last year partly in a touring metal band and the other half working full time.

I'm just wandering what sort of things they'll expect of me and what sort thing they're looking for atm. I've wanted to go into the RAF and aviation from a young age, but there are so many roles to choose from, I'm not sure what to go for (except for ATC which I find interesting anyway).

Any pointers as to what they're particularly looking for atm and if academically and experience wise, I have the right stuff?

airborne_artist

Start at the top and work down. Have you got 180 UCAS points from your A-levels? That's the minimum to apply for a commission in any of the Services. If you have the points (and Maths and English GCSEs) then there is nothing stopping you applying for a commissioned aircrew/ATC role.

RAF Careers home - jobs, recruitment and career opportunities in the RAF - RAF Careers is a good place to start.

Wader2

Pilot, ATC and ABM are all aptitude skills jobs with th eonly real difference being medical employment standards and anthromorphics (will you fit the cockpit?). You should look at other branches as well.