Ministry of Defence officials paid £47 million in bonuses
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Are you saying you were a line manager for a CS that wasn't performing but you still gave them a bonus?
Today 16:49
Today 16:49
This isn't a performance related Bonus....this is a "Did they pitch up for work" bonus.
No mate, that's not how it works. Teeteringhead is spot on......
This isn't a performance related Bonus....this is a "Did they pitch up for work" bonus.
This isn't a performance related Bonus....this is a "Did they pitch up for work" bonus.
Does this mean that the "incompetent, inefficient, wasteful" CS working for you met the objectives you set them to get the bonus?
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Party Bonus
How can the Civil Service justify a system that allows a line manger to award £100 'turning up' bonuses to a number of his team which they then pool and spend on a night out for the whole of the team? And the bill is paid on a Government credit card! It's just another way they take the P within the rules. I'm so annoyed at another way CS's have managed to feather their nests I'm going to start a thread that might surprise a lot of people.
Here's a taster, who in the service of this fair land of ours does not pay for accommodation, fuel or light, council tax or telephone line rental AND gets a cost of living allowance?
Here's a taster, who in the service of this fair land of ours does not pay for accommodation, fuel or light, council tax or telephone line rental AND gets a cost of living allowance?
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[QUOTE]
OMG....Please please don't start that thread....I wouldn't want the jouno's to realise what a complete P take SSSA is.....
I'm going to start a thread that might surprise a lot of people.
Here's a taster, who in the service of this fair land of ours does not pay for accommodation, fuel or light, council tax or telephone line rental AND gets a cost of living allowance?/QUOTE]
Here's a taster, who in the service of this fair land of ours does not pay for accommodation, fuel or light, council tax or telephone line rental AND gets a cost of living allowance?/QUOTE]
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Ministry of Defence officials get £8,000 a month in Afghanistan
Ministry of Defence officials get £8,000 a month in Afghanistan
Civil servants at the Ministry of Defence are being paid more than £8,000 a month for working in Afghanistan, nearly five times as much some soldiers on the front line.
Ministry of Defence officials get £8,000 a month in Afghanistan - Telegraph
Political Correspondent
Published: 10:00PM GMT 15 Nov 2009
A total of 232 British service personnel have been killed in Afghanistan since 2001 Photo: EPA
The figures emerged days after the MoD admitted paying millions of pounds in bonuses to civil servants.
The Government is under intense pressure over its support for the Armed Forces and Gordon Brown will attempt to respond this week by meeting Forces families and outlining a package of welfare measures for them.
After it was revealed last week that the MoD has paid £47 million in bonuses to civilian staff, ministers tried to argue that the bonuses were justified in part by the fact that some officials are posted to conflict zones.
The MoD said that the maximum monthly payment for a senior grade official is £8,250. For more junior officials, it is £6,750.
A senior civil servant based in Lashkar Gar in Helmand is paid £8,000 a month in addition to basic salary. A junior official is paid £5,000. The MoD last week said it has around 100 officials in Afghanistan.
Alan Johnson, the Home Secretary, suggested that the performance bonuses were paid because officials are not paid overtime for the long hours they do in Afghanistan. “They work 17, 18 hours in Afghanistan. They don't get overtime for that – they get a bonus to compensate,” he said.
In fact, the MoD said that the Operational Working Allowance paid to officials is an overtime payment for working in conflict zones. To qualify for the highest payments, an official would have an average working week of more than 82 hours.
An MoD spokesman said: “MoD civilians are integral to operations. The department recognises the contribution these individuals make to operational success in terms of punishing working conditions and long hours with a system of taxable operational allowances.”
He added that officials sometimes leave British bases, putting them at risk. "Mortar and rocket attacks do not differentiate between military and civilian staff and risks are similar when travelling off base where mine-strike, IED and ambush are constant threats."
The MoD said it was inappropriate to compare payments to civil servants and troops on operations, because they have very different pay scales and employment conditions like holiday allowances.
Private soldiers paid between £16,681 and £25,887.
Soldiers deployed to Afghanistan for a six-month tour receive a tax-free “operational allowance” worth £2,380 and a Longer Separation Allowance worth at least £1,194. That means the lowest-paid private in Afghanistan is paid a monthly total of £1,687.
Mr Brown and his ministers have faced repeated accusations from retired commanders and opposition MPs that they do not do enough to support service personnel and their families.
Figures revealed on Sunday showed that since 2005, the MoD has paid compensation to 155 soldiers who suffered mental trauma as a result of their service. They were paid an average of £6,000.
The Prime Minister will this week host a Downing Street reception for services charities, where he will outline schemes to support Forces families.
They include support for the wives of servicemen – first revealed by the Daily Telegraph in September – and a shared equity housing scheme to help service families own part of their own homes. Similar schemes have been in place since 2006
Civil servants at the Ministry of Defence are being paid more than £8,000 a month for working in Afghanistan, nearly five times as much some soldiers on the front line.
Ministry of Defence officials get £8,000 a month in Afghanistan - Telegraph
Political Correspondent
Published: 10:00PM GMT 15 Nov 2009
A total of 232 British service personnel have been killed in Afghanistan since 2001 Photo: EPA
The figures emerged days after the MoD admitted paying millions of pounds in bonuses to civil servants.
The Government is under intense pressure over its support for the Armed Forces and Gordon Brown will attempt to respond this week by meeting Forces families and outlining a package of welfare measures for them.
After it was revealed last week that the MoD has paid £47 million in bonuses to civilian staff, ministers tried to argue that the bonuses were justified in part by the fact that some officials are posted to conflict zones.
The MoD said that the maximum monthly payment for a senior grade official is £8,250. For more junior officials, it is £6,750.
A senior civil servant based in Lashkar Gar in Helmand is paid £8,000 a month in addition to basic salary. A junior official is paid £5,000. The MoD last week said it has around 100 officials in Afghanistan.
Alan Johnson, the Home Secretary, suggested that the performance bonuses were paid because officials are not paid overtime for the long hours they do in Afghanistan. “They work 17, 18 hours in Afghanistan. They don't get overtime for that – they get a bonus to compensate,” he said.
In fact, the MoD said that the Operational Working Allowance paid to officials is an overtime payment for working in conflict zones. To qualify for the highest payments, an official would have an average working week of more than 82 hours.
An MoD spokesman said: “MoD civilians are integral to operations. The department recognises the contribution these individuals make to operational success in terms of punishing working conditions and long hours with a system of taxable operational allowances.”
He added that officials sometimes leave British bases, putting them at risk. "Mortar and rocket attacks do not differentiate between military and civilian staff and risks are similar when travelling off base where mine-strike, IED and ambush are constant threats."
The MoD said it was inappropriate to compare payments to civil servants and troops on operations, because they have very different pay scales and employment conditions like holiday allowances.
Private soldiers paid between £16,681 and £25,887.
Soldiers deployed to Afghanistan for a six-month tour receive a tax-free “operational allowance” worth £2,380 and a Longer Separation Allowance worth at least £1,194. That means the lowest-paid private in Afghanistan is paid a monthly total of £1,687.
Mr Brown and his ministers have faced repeated accusations from retired commanders and opposition MPs that they do not do enough to support service personnel and their families.
Figures revealed on Sunday showed that since 2005, the MoD has paid compensation to 155 soldiers who suffered mental trauma as a result of their service. They were paid an average of £6,000.
The Prime Minister will this week host a Downing Street reception for services charities, where he will outline schemes to support Forces families.
They include support for the wives of servicemen – first revealed by the Daily Telegraph in September – and a shared equity housing scheme to help service families own part of their own homes. Similar schemes have been in place since 2006
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Seems to me that this has always been the case when it comes to conflict. Civilian crews on the same ship were earning treble and even quadruple wages when operating in the South Atlantic in 1982 whilst those of us that, joined the Armed Forces, signed the dotted line and accepted the wage and the job spec. got our standard salary with a small allowance.
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And now the story moves onto....
Anger as penpushers at MoD get same Afghan medal as troops risking their lives on front line
Anger as penpushers at MoD get same Afghan medal as troops risking their lives on front line
Civil servants are being awarded the same campaign medals for serving in Afghanistan as soldiers risking their lives on the front line.
Critics said it was 'offensive' that Ministry of Defence bureaucrats manning desks at the British HQ, Camp Bastion, are handed the Operational Service Medal which is also given to squaddies facing Taliban bullets and bombs.
Penpushers receive the honour from ministers at formal presentation ceremonies, which were introduced after protests that the medals were being posted to them in plastic bags.
The news follows revelations in the Daily Mail that civilians working for the MoD have earned nearly £300million in bonuses while soldiers have been dying for lack of equipment.
Civil servants have seen 'good performance' payments double, including rewards for saving money, while on the battlefields of Helmand soldiers have accused the Government of putting lives at risk by scrimping on military kit including helicopters, radios and night goggles.
Liberal Democrat defence spokesman Willie Rennie said last night: 'It is quite offensive that civil servants should be regarded and rewarded the same as soldiers who are putting themselves in danger to fight the Taliban.
'We need a complete review of arrangements so that risk and courage is taken into account when medals are being awarded.
'I think it would be more appropriate to give frontline troops a different medal that reflected their bravery and sacrifice.'
The Operational Service Medal was introduced in 2000 to honour service in a series of British campaigns, replacing the General Service Medal.
They have been handed out for service in Iraq, Sierre Leone and the Congo.
The circular silver medal features the crowned effigy of Queen Elizabeth II on the front and the Union Flag surrounded by the inscription For Operational Service and the four points of the compass on the reverse.
The ribbon for the Afghanistan campaign consists of a broad central red stripe, flanked each side by a stripe of royal blue and one of light blue, to represent the three services, with an outer stripe of light brown, to represent the Afghan landscape.
Complex criteria govern the award of the medal, depending on length of service, the type of operation and its location.
To qualify for award of the medal with a clasp, personnel must have served in Afghanistan for either five, 21 or 30 days continuous service between various dates depending on the operation.
The MoD has asked staff to volunteer for service in Afghanistan. Welfare and administration officers, scientists and mechanics are among those who can be posted there.
One civil servant who recently returned from Afghanistan said: 'We are not on the front line facing the Taliban, but could be blown to pieces at any time. I shall wear my medal with pride inside and outside the office.'
At a presentation ceremony in July, Armed Forces minister Kevan Jones said: 'The welfare role these people do is vital in operations and I thought it important that they get public recognition.'
An MoD spokesman: 'Civil servants in Afghanistan provide essential support to troops on the front line.
'Staff serving in Afghanistan are expected to work extremely long hours in potentially dangerous environments away from their families. They are all deserving of the Operational Service Medal.'
Armed Forces face shortfall of 7,000 troops
Britain’s Armed Forces fighting Afghan insurgents are facing an 'alarming' shortfall of nearly 7,000 specialist troops.
Vital roles including surgeons, helicopter pilots, divers and intelligence officers are operating at two-thirds strength or less, according to figures.
A 38 per cent shortfall in bomb disposal experts is said by the Army to be a 'critical concern'.
The Army also has fewer than half the nurses it needs.
Of 68,000 specialist staff across the Army, Royal Navy and RAF, there are 6,700 vacancies.
Many troops can earn better pay in the private sector.
Liberal Democrat spokesman Nick Harvey said the figures were 'alarming', but Defence Secretary Bob Ainsworth said Afghan forces were not left short.
Critics said it was 'offensive' that Ministry of Defence bureaucrats manning desks at the British HQ, Camp Bastion, are handed the Operational Service Medal which is also given to squaddies facing Taliban bullets and bombs.
Penpushers receive the honour from ministers at formal presentation ceremonies, which were introduced after protests that the medals were being posted to them in plastic bags.
The news follows revelations in the Daily Mail that civilians working for the MoD have earned nearly £300million in bonuses while soldiers have been dying for lack of equipment.
Civil servants have seen 'good performance' payments double, including rewards for saving money, while on the battlefields of Helmand soldiers have accused the Government of putting lives at risk by scrimping on military kit including helicopters, radios and night goggles.
Liberal Democrat defence spokesman Willie Rennie said last night: 'It is quite offensive that civil servants should be regarded and rewarded the same as soldiers who are putting themselves in danger to fight the Taliban.
'We need a complete review of arrangements so that risk and courage is taken into account when medals are being awarded.
'I think it would be more appropriate to give frontline troops a different medal that reflected their bravery and sacrifice.'
The Operational Service Medal was introduced in 2000 to honour service in a series of British campaigns, replacing the General Service Medal.
They have been handed out for service in Iraq, Sierre Leone and the Congo.
The circular silver medal features the crowned effigy of Queen Elizabeth II on the front and the Union Flag surrounded by the inscription For Operational Service and the four points of the compass on the reverse.
The ribbon for the Afghanistan campaign consists of a broad central red stripe, flanked each side by a stripe of royal blue and one of light blue, to represent the three services, with an outer stripe of light brown, to represent the Afghan landscape.
Complex criteria govern the award of the medal, depending on length of service, the type of operation and its location.
To qualify for award of the medal with a clasp, personnel must have served in Afghanistan for either five, 21 or 30 days continuous service between various dates depending on the operation.
The MoD has asked staff to volunteer for service in Afghanistan. Welfare and administration officers, scientists and mechanics are among those who can be posted there.
One civil servant who recently returned from Afghanistan said: 'We are not on the front line facing the Taliban, but could be blown to pieces at any time. I shall wear my medal with pride inside and outside the office.'
At a presentation ceremony in July, Armed Forces minister Kevan Jones said: 'The welfare role these people do is vital in operations and I thought it important that they get public recognition.'
An MoD spokesman: 'Civil servants in Afghanistan provide essential support to troops on the front line.
'Staff serving in Afghanistan are expected to work extremely long hours in potentially dangerous environments away from their families. They are all deserving of the Operational Service Medal.'
Armed Forces face shortfall of 7,000 troops
Britain’s Armed Forces fighting Afghan insurgents are facing an 'alarming' shortfall of nearly 7,000 specialist troops.
Vital roles including surgeons, helicopter pilots, divers and intelligence officers are operating at two-thirds strength or less, according to figures.
A 38 per cent shortfall in bomb disposal experts is said by the Army to be a 'critical concern'.
The Army also has fewer than half the nurses it needs.
Of 68,000 specialist staff across the Army, Royal Navy and RAF, there are 6,700 vacancies.
Many troops can earn better pay in the private sector.
Liberal Democrat spokesman Nick Harvey said the figures were 'alarming', but Defence Secretary Bob Ainsworth said Afghan forces were not left short.
What a total non-story.
I'm going to Kandahar shortly on a Cat 1 IPDT (Cat B IRT in old money) and never expect to leave the wire for the job I do. At the end of my 6 months I'll get the OSM Afghanistan and wear it with pride. Why should the CS next to me not do the same?
I'm going to Kandahar shortly on a Cat 1 IPDT (Cat B IRT in old money) and never expect to leave the wire for the job I do. At the end of my 6 months I'll get the OSM Afghanistan and wear it with pride. Why should the CS next to me not do the same?
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As stuff infers, a bit of a non story in that this has always been the case.
A comms chap who never left the bunker on a six week tour in NI got the same medal as those of us flying around the place. By the same token we in our (relative) safety at 50ft/100kts got the same medal as the troops taking bullets on the ground in South Armagh.
In 1982 the guys n gals who operated in the sunshine of Ascension, got the same medal as those sailing the South Atlantic who got the same medal as those of us ashore in pretty hazardous flying conditions who got the same medal as the troops hand to hand fighting the enemy on Mount Longdon. (We did get a rosette for that though)
Are we not all part of the same team?
A comms chap who never left the bunker on a six week tour in NI got the same medal as those of us flying around the place. By the same token we in our (relative) safety at 50ft/100kts got the same medal as the troops taking bullets on the ground in South Armagh.
In 1982 the guys n gals who operated in the sunshine of Ascension, got the same medal as those sailing the South Atlantic who got the same medal as those of us ashore in pretty hazardous flying conditions who got the same medal as the troops hand to hand fighting the enemy on Mount Longdon. (We did get a rosette for that though)
Are we not all part of the same team?
"Are we not all part of the same team?"
Not in the eyes of the media - its our brave boys on the front line versus the evil incompetent malingering useless overpaid and general paedophile loving civil service scum.
Said as a very hacked off CS fed up of the Medias efforts to create divisions where non existed.
Not in the eyes of the media - its our brave boys on the front line versus the evil incompetent malingering useless overpaid and general paedophile loving civil service scum.
Said as a very hacked off CS fed up of the Medias efforts to create divisions where non existed.
