Ministry of Defence officials paid £47 million in bonuses
Some very sensible and measured points here. Another way of looking at it - my old PA was paid £21k after 22 years in the MOD and pays for all her travel expenses. Today my Military SO2 colleague noted that as his travel is paid for, his salary is effectively £8k higher once you take into account the earning before tax needed to pay for season ticket, oyster and parking. This is added on top of his annual salary.
A deeply depressing day to be a CS - no support at all from anyone of any level apart from the Home Secretary, who managed to be briefed on the role of deployed CS and not the bonus system itself.
A deeply depressing day to be a CS - no support at all from anyone of any level apart from the Home Secretary, who managed to be briefed on the role of deployed CS and not the bonus system itself.
A deeply depressing day to be a CS
Someone from a think tank proposed a CS pay freeze - nothing new there - but also suggested that the CS work for and get paid for only 4 days a week but carry on doing as much as they did before. Needless to say this met with unanimous approval of the panel
There was clearly a feeling from some of the panel that as much people as possible should suffer in this recession...
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My pay is frozen.
They changed the spine points (I'm an E1 or AO in old money) and I'm right at the top of the pay band now so for this year no pay rise apart from £300 non consolidated lump sum spread out over 12 months and taxed.
ALL Civil Servants - end 2008 = 479,500 (to the nearest 100)
15.8% of CS work for the MoD
17.1% for Justice
17.7% for HM Customs and Revenue
21.8% for Dept Works & Pensions
27.6% for Other Depts (Quangos, Executive Agencies etc)
(Info from Civil Servant pdf Doc - Updated Apr 2009)
From the percentages above, makes you wonder why the MoD Civil Servants are always singled out?
Brian
They changed the spine points (I'm an E1 or AO in old money) and I'm right at the top of the pay band now so for this year no pay rise apart from £300 non consolidated lump sum spread out over 12 months and taxed.
ALL Civil Servants - end 2008 = 479,500 (to the nearest 100)
15.8% of CS work for the MoD
17.1% for Justice
17.7% for HM Customs and Revenue
21.8% for Dept Works & Pensions
27.6% for Other Depts (Quangos, Executive Agencies etc)
(Info from Civil Servant pdf Doc - Updated Apr 2009)
From the percentages above, makes you wonder why the MoD Civil Servants are always singled out?
Brian
And why are there so many MoD civil servants?
Because it's cheaper to pay CS rates and employ a professional pen pusher to push a pen (OK, keyboard) than to use an expensive blue-suiter who'll only be in the job for 3 years at the most - and doesn't really want to be there in the first place. Of course a retired blue-suiter working as CS has a pension as well as his CS pay, so would probably be quite happy with his lot.
CS do at least provide continuity and are paid slave labour rates for some of their posts in the Box. Why their union hasn't put a union leader on TV to rebuff this 'bonus' nonsense - caused by Incapability Brown in the first place - I don't know. It should do - they don't deserve the uninformed nonsense being spouted in the meeja.
Because it's cheaper to pay CS rates and employ a professional pen pusher to push a pen (OK, keyboard) than to use an expensive blue-suiter who'll only be in the job for 3 years at the most - and doesn't really want to be there in the first place. Of course a retired blue-suiter working as CS has a pension as well as his CS pay, so would probably be quite happy with his lot.
CS do at least provide continuity and are paid slave labour rates for some of their posts in the Box. Why their union hasn't put a union leader on TV to rebuff this 'bonus' nonsense - caused by Incapability Brown in the first place - I don't know. It should do - they don't deserve the uninformed nonsense being spouted in the meeja.
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Why their union hasn't put a union leader on TV to rebuff this 'bonus' nonsense - caused by Incapability Brown in the first place - I don't know. It should do - they don't deserve the uninformed nonsense being spouted in the meeja.
12 November 2009
2009/01413
PROSPECT ATTACKS MEDIA WAR AGAINST DEFENCE CIVILIANS
Prospect, the union for 10,000 Ministry of Defence specialist civil servants today (Thursday) condemned the witch-hunt by the media over the payment of bonuses to its staff this year.
National secretary Steve Jary said: “First, these bonuses represent 2.8% of the pay bill which has been removed from basic pay progressively over the last eight years. This is in-line with 20 years of government policy to increase the use of performance pay in the civil service.
“Second, if civil servants were not doing some of the work in MOD, it would be done by military staff - at twice the cost to the taxpayer.
“Third, the purchase and supply of military equipment is undertaken by teams made up of civil servants and military officers. The majority of these teams are headed by military officers. If you believe they are under-performing, make sure you take the military hierarchy to task as well.
The union says newspapers have repeated ill informed comments about the ratio of civil servants to the armed forces. In fact MOD is more tightly staffed than it was in 1997 by 30 per cent. The number of civilians has dropped three times as fast as the number of service personnel.
“Civilian servants are deployed in Afghanistan in large numbers – intelligence analysis, operational research, logistics – which of these ‘pen pushers’ does not deserve our respect,” said Jary.
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Unfortunately the press release won't undo the damage that has been done by yesterday's media feeding frenzy.
Watching question time last night I could only sit and cringe at the misinformed rubbish being spouted by the panellists - none of them had done any research into the history of performance related pay within the MOD and James Cracknell's statement (allegedly from some of his friends in the MOD) that the bonus scheme was introduced to reward those who weren't slackers had me seething (You have probably guessed that I'm an MOD civil servant).
It also beggars belief that the man who is very likely to become Defence Secretary next year has attacked the very people who will be supporting him. A massive own goal methinks.
Watching question time last night I could only sit and cringe at the misinformed rubbish being spouted by the panellists - none of them had done any research into the history of performance related pay within the MOD and James Cracknell's statement (allegedly from some of his friends in the MOD) that the bonus scheme was introduced to reward those who weren't slackers had me seething (You have probably guessed that I'm an MOD civil servant).
It also beggars belief that the man who is very likely to become Defence Secretary next year has attacked the very people who will be supporting him. A massive own goal methinks.
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It is a shame that Mr Woodward never took the opportunity to set the record straight and explain to the public that the whole of the CS operates in a similar way. As an Executive Officer with 17 years in (not MOD), post military service, I got a frivolous £650 (taxable) on top of my 0.5% payrise and that was only because I ticked the right box. Had I just done my job just to the required level and not gone the extra mile for the organisation, the performance "bonus" would have been less...... They're spoiling us!
Last edited by blimp22; 13th Nov 2009 at 09:28. Reason: spelin
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Ministry of Defence civil servants deserve bonuses, ministers say
Civil servants at the Ministry of Defence deserve millions of pounds of bonuses because they are facing the same risks as troops fighting in Afghanistan, ministers said yesterday.
Civil servants at the Ministry of Defence deserve millions of pounds of bonuses because they are facing the same risks as troops fighting in Afghanistan, ministers said yesterday.
"Many a true word spoken in jest".
Not exactly dangers but in my experience, receiving a bonus could cause embarrassment and bad feeling in a small department where everyone had pulled their weight and achieved a common goal. I know of locations where small departments agreed to pool any bonuses and divide them equally amongst all department members.
Not exactly dangers but in my experience, receiving a bonus could cause embarrassment and bad feeling in a small department where everyone had pulled their weight and achieved a common goal. I know of locations where small departments agreed to pool any bonuses and divide them equally amongst all department members.
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Many of the top posts in MOD are held by the military so why aren't CDS, CDM etc getting air time to tell the public what they tell us internally? Some gold braid and medal ribbons would lend more weight to the argument than a spokesman from a very small union.
The bit that really grates with me is the accusation that we are uncaring and greedy, stoked by the false connection made by the media between bonuses and the equipment budget.
Quite simply I think the mix of military and civilian personnel (which includes a large number of ex-mil) promotes an ethos that precludes the very notion of being uncaring of our 'customers'.
Memo to CDS: Jock, show Liam Fox which way is up please.
The bit that really grates with me is the accusation that we are uncaring and greedy, stoked by the false connection made by the media between bonuses and the equipment budget.
Quite simply I think the mix of military and civilian personnel (which includes a large number of ex-mil) promotes an ethos that precludes the very notion of being uncaring of our 'customers'.
Memo to CDS: Jock, show Liam Fox which way is up please.
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Performance related.....
During Telic my unit could not have delivered its warfighting ability were it not for the incredible hard work done by our MOD civil servants. Before, during and after Shock & Awe, these men and women worked up to 14 hours a day, 7 days a week for 2 months without a break or reward - it's shameful that MOD civil servants (many paid about the same salary as a jnco) should now be vilified because of bonuses of £500 or less. I feel sorry for the mother of the Oxfordshire marine who was killed in Afghanistan, but once again someone has grabbed at the first quite inappropriate stick, never mind the wrong end. It's also a disgrace that the Tories and the media grabbed at this one's throat so quickly too - I suspect that Dr Liam Fox has just lost that nice Mr Cameron around 85 000 votes!
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As a serving Officer I am on performance related pay. If I don't perform to the entire satisfaction of my 1RO I don't get a pay rise.
If I were a CS my name would be lobbed into a ballot and if I won the lottery I would get a bonus...regardless of how good I was at my job. I could be the most incompetent, inefficient, wasteful Civil servant in the land (He worked for me) ..... But I would still get a bonus. (He did).
You should get a bonus because you deserve it....not because its your turn
If I were a CS my name would be lobbed into a ballot and if I won the lottery I would get a bonus...regardless of how good I was at my job. I could be the most incompetent, inefficient, wasteful Civil servant in the land (He worked for me) ..... But I would still get a bonus. (He did).
You should get a bonus because you deserve it....not because its your turn
Last edited by vecvechookattack; 13th Nov 2009 at 21:58.
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I have many opinions on the use of CS and in particular the skewed balance of uniform/CS within the MOD. Indeed it is also a concern raised within the Haddon Cave report. However, I work closely with, in fact for, two civil servants and have first hand experience of their skills and loyalty. They are poorly paid but without doubt as some of the previous posters have mentioned, there is a real comms problem here. I saw QT last night and thought the ministers defence was poor and completely missed the point of how CS bonuses barely bring the wages of the average CS up to a living wage.
As a serving Officer I am on performance related pay. If I don't perform to the entire satisfaction of my 1RO I don't get a pay rise.
Firstly, the AFPRB normally awards all of us an annual pay increase. Secondly, Pay 2000 is incremental up to a point and so unless you are on the top banding, you recieve a nominal pay rise.
Thirdly, you are not on performance related pay. This is simple, as there is no means of reducing your pay if you fail to perform, or raising it if you do.
You have confused pay and promotion. They are not the same, and promotion occurs even outside of the officer corps and military.
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If you are on the FTC(A) pay spine (Spec aircrew) then you have to achieve a designated performance level in order to qualify for your annual pay rise. You will receive annual reports as part of your OJAR process where you will be expected to achieve a predetermined performance level. If your 1RO deems that you have not performed to that level then you don't get a pay rise. That is performance related pay.
I think you have to get a D in order not to progress / get your annual incremement. I'm not aware of anyone having got a D, probably because the amount of hassle and ensuing recriminations, paperwork etc that would follow would make the prospect entirely unappealling in terms of effort expended on one individual. Also the ROs would need a pretty robust evidence trail for why someone deserved a D, and unless you are organised, it's unlikely that it would get past OC PMS.
So yes, in a way, we are all on performance related pay, but in a theoretical rather than practical sense.
So yes, in a way, we are all on performance related pay, but in a theoretical rather than practical sense.
If I were a CS my name would be lobbed into a ballot and if I won the lottery I would get a bonus...regardless of how good I was at my job. I could be the most incompetent, inefficient, wasteful Civil servant in the land (He worked for me) ..... But I would still get a bonus. (He did).
Gentleman Aviator
And in the interests of accuracy, fairness to my CS and for the information of vecvec et al, if CS get a D or are on "restoring efficiency" then .... surprise surprise ....they don't get a bonus.