SNCO Aircrew.... Shafted???
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SNCO Aircrew.... Shafted???
Firstly I want to point out that I'm not going to whinge about all the FRI's (or whatever they're called ) awarded to Officer Aircrew, but the lack of, well, anything really on offer to us.
I'm well aware that it's been admitted there is a vast shortage of people, and it will be investigated.... but when???? As Seak1ng points out in another thread, the AEOp branch in particular is way short on manpower. The ALM's were dealt a blow by not being in the higher pay tier last year, and now this! It is what we all call a Shaftin'!!!
When will the problems be addressed? Are they being investigated 'fully' at the moment? I see know evidence of this and fear the problem may get worse.
We're informed the main problem is with recruitment and not retention, well this isn't going to help keep experienced guys in to help soften the blow of the recruictment shortfalls is it!
Rant over (for now)
I'm well aware that it's been admitted there is a vast shortage of people, and it will be investigated.... but when???? As Seak1ng points out in another thread, the AEOp branch in particular is way short on manpower. The ALM's were dealt a blow by not being in the higher pay tier last year, and now this! It is what we all call a Shaftin'!!!
When will the problems be addressed? Are they being investigated 'fully' at the moment? I see know evidence of this and fear the problem may get worse.
We're informed the main problem is with recruitment and not retention, well this isn't going to help keep experienced guys in to help soften the blow of the recruictment shortfalls is it!
Rant over (for now)
RETENTION INCENTIVES FOR NON-OFFICER AIRCREW ARE INDEED BEING FORMULATED!
Sorry to shout, but please rest assured that you are NOT being shafted. They simply can't do everything at once and this first announcement is to target areas where manning levels are the most critical!
Sorry to shout, but please rest assured that you are NOT being shafted. They simply can't do everything at once and this first announcement is to target areas where manning levels are the most critical!
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Beag's,
Don't start singing the party line fella,
They must have known for months that they weren't going to include us as promised, so why didn't they have the spine to tell us?
They are taking the pi33 and deserve to be left in the lurch.
Don't start singing the party line fella,
They must have known for months that they weren't going to include us as promised, so why didn't they have the spine to tell us?
They are taking the pi33 and deserve to be left in the lurch.
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Sandy,. .Agree with your concerns.(see my post on aircrew retention).. .The work of the AIRCREW (not just critical area PILOTS) RRWG is "complete"! The Def Management Board has merely directed single services to "action" the non-remuneration issues identified. The situation for NCO Aircrew (RAF / RN) is by inference known to the working group. Reveal all..soonest!!
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Muff C
If so why this:
Armed Forces’. .Pay Review Body. .Thirty-First Report 2002. .Chairman: The Rt. Hon. Baroness Dean. .of Thornton-le-Fylde
. .“Finally, MOD told us that, while the remuneration package was not suitable to address shortages of RAF NCO aircrew, non-remuneration management action was being taken to address those shortfalls.”
“Firstly, the remuneration proposals do not apply to NCO aircrew who are in short supply. We have asked MOD to explain how its “non-financial management action” will address those shortages.”
If so why this:
Armed Forces’. .Pay Review Body. .Thirty-First Report 2002. .Chairman: The Rt. Hon. Baroness Dean. .of Thornton-le-Fylde
. .“Finally, MOD told us that, while the remuneration package was not suitable to address shortages of RAF NCO aircrew, non-remuneration management action was being taken to address those shortfalls.”
“Firstly, the remuneration proposals do not apply to NCO aircrew who are in short supply. We have asked MOD to explain how its “non-financial management action” will address those shortages.”
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I do not believe that there will be any financial incentives for us SNCO Aircrew. I think it was said in the brief that the rearcrew types would be appeased by the non remuneration package. I don't know about you guys but, my quality of life is pretty good however, my remuneration is not compared to my civvy counterparts.
I want my total salary package, as professional aircrew, paid to include what was the flying pay element. Now that the precedence has been set AND I want a couple of decent bungs, just like everyone else.
AND PRETTY DAMN QUICK
I want my total salary package, as professional aircrew, paid to include what was the flying pay element. Now that the precedence has been set AND I want a couple of decent bungs, just like everyone else.
AND PRETTY DAMN QUICK
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Well said GB! And while they're at it, maybe they could stop pi$$ing around, sort out the manning problem and then I won't spend the next 18 months "filling in" on other crews as well as my own crew commitments, thereby reducing my quality of life!!!
Rant No. 2 over (for now)
Rant No. 2 over (for now)
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Cheaps,
My point exactly..the truth is out there...somewhere!!. .AFPRB statement challenges the MOD et al the ARRWG for a response.. .Connect my post on BEagle thread on report findings.
My point exactly..the truth is out there...somewhere!!. .AFPRB statement challenges the MOD et al the ARRWG for a response.. .Connect my post on BEagle thread on report findings.
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Oh... and another thing!!
The terms 'Career Aviator' and 'Proffessional Aircrew' sound like they apply more to SNCO aircrew who spend most of their careers on a flying tour. We all know how many spec aircrew are on ground tours and still get the 'xtra dosh!!
The terms 'Career Aviator' and 'Proffessional Aircrew' sound like they apply more to SNCO aircrew who spend most of their careers on a flying tour. We all know how many spec aircrew are on ground tours and still get the 'xtra dosh!!
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"...non-remuneration management action blah blah blah"
F*ck all flying pay, ALMs on the low band if they work hard and get promoted and now this sh*t.
They think we're c*nts and they're treating us like c*nts. South west trains have the right idea. Everybody out!
F*ck all flying pay, ALMs on the low band if they work hard and get promoted and now this sh*t.
They think we're c*nts and they're treating us like c*nts. South west trains have the right idea. Everybody out!
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HP
I do, for a change, agree with you. Maybe a mass PVR might galvanise opinion at higher echelons - prob not methinks. Tis a shame we have been rolled over again, maybe after the disaster that will be 2002 has subsided, we might be afforded proper consideration, ho ho ho. When the SNCO force is 30 to 40 per cent undermanned, then they may listen. I can but dream.... I fly with a 12 man crew now (vice 13), which is rubbish, due to undermanning. Ho hum, aircrew means Pilots, two winged master race, better accept it, eh ?
"Never have so many been so undervalued by so few", it is a shame however that it will bite us in the ass before them.
I do, for a change, agree with you. Maybe a mass PVR might galvanise opinion at higher echelons - prob not methinks. Tis a shame we have been rolled over again, maybe after the disaster that will be 2002 has subsided, we might be afforded proper consideration, ho ho ho. When the SNCO force is 30 to 40 per cent undermanned, then they may listen. I can but dream.... I fly with a 12 man crew now (vice 13), which is rubbish, due to undermanning. Ho hum, aircrew means Pilots, two winged master race, better accept it, eh ?
"Never have so many been so undervalued by so few", it is a shame however that it will bite us in the ass before them.
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Gents when they changed the goal posts regarding time promotion, there was big talk of mass pvr and no action. You have again been shafted with a red hot poker and the wheels do not give 2 tosses. ALM FS & MACR being on the low band is nothing short of a disgrace, but as sure as SH live in sh17 whilst harrier mates get 5*s you are slave labour. ....and the ONLY thing that will make this change is when CAA rulings on carrying pax off shore change and or Police Aviation open up to crewmen (Read ALM)/ sensor ops (read AEOp).. .Now I wonder if Air Atlantic want any crews? There are many ATPLs held by SNCO aircrew, and their time will come very shortly, especially if a large percentage of front enders accept the bribe. Any decisions regarding SNCO aircrew that would be constructive would have been voiced today, so your airships you know the phrase......and the donkey you rode in on!!!
T_M <img src="mad.gif" border="0"> <img src="mad.gif" border="0">
T_M <img src="mad.gif" border="0"> <img src="mad.gif" border="0">
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Tiger I’m right with you. The front line shortage in AEOp and AirSig branches is well above all but fast jet pilot and nav problems but we are told by our AEOs that ‘we feel your pain’ while they watch us fill the holes for flights and Sims. Meanwhile the world is awash with AEOs and group two Navs soon to have thirty K!! Well that’s life! Special sauce sir?
[ 29 January 2002: Message edited by: circle kay ]</p>
[ 29 January 2002: Message edited by: circle kay ]</p>
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Last year the Air Eng posters visited all the bases where the aircraft still have a three man flight deck. They explained that with delays bringing aircraft into service that we will be required to continue flying for longer than they thought. Come 2008 there will be a vast shortage of air engs unless some of us agree to extend our contracts. With this sort of treatment, the air force knows what it can do with it's extensions of service. Why stay with an employer who does not value the role you play. As allows, the officers have looked after themselves with the knowlage that the knockers will do as they are told. Nothing ever changes.
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I was under the misguided opinion that the only problem with GD rearcrew was that there were too many of them. If there is such a retention problem with them, why are the limited vacancies for commissioning each year oversubscribed by 10 times as many applicants?
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Beagle, if you honestly believe the b******s about SNCO Aircrew being looked at over the next year for retention bonuses, then you are more naive than my two year old.. .If any money ever reaches my pocket, then I will be first to apologise. Until then, I think we have more chance of 42(R) doing SAR!
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Pilgrim, I know only a handful of identities on this forum. Two I have no idea about are yourself and BEagle. I read the threads avidly and can say that BEagle's replies are always very constructive or very funny and often both. Yours on the otherhand...
I see your reply as being nothing short of immature.
Must be AA.
I see your reply as being nothing short of immature.
Must be AA.