Chinook - Still Hitting Back 3 (Merged)
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Article from Scotland on Sunday 12th May, 2002, that may be of interest. Keep up the good work guys.
[QUOTE]
Chinook pilots may be cleared by report
BRIAN BRADY WESTMINSTER EDITOR
A CONFIDENTIAL report that could clear two pilots of blame for the Mull of Kintyre helicopter disaster is lying on the desk of defence secretary Geoff Hoon, it emerged last night.
The Ministry of Defence has taken delivery of a technical report on the last seconds of Chinook flight ZD576 before it crashed into a hillside, killing the cream of Northern Ireland’s anti-terrorist intelligence forces, Whitehall sources have confirmed.
Ministers last month ordered Boeing, manufacturers of the doomed aircraft, to review their original analysis of the Chinook’s fatal journey in 1994 - including a flight simulation - after a House of Lords inquiry raised new questions about the cause of the crash.
But the families of RAF Flight Lieutenants Richard Cook and Jonathan Tapper may have to wait another four months to see whether the Boeing report backs the Lords’ decision to clear their sons of blame for the catastrophe.
The dossier will be sent to experts within the aviation industry for independent analysis before defence secretary Hoon makes a final decision.
MoD officials said he plans to answer the Lords’ points by September, when the six-month deadline for a response expires.
But it was clear last night that key figures within the department remain dead-set against overturning the original verdict of gross negligence handed down on both airmen.
"The technical questions the [Lords] report raised basically left us with no option but to go back to Boeing,’’ one senior ministerial source told Scotland on Sunday.
"But these are not fundamental issues. I don’t think any technical review can explain why these pilots were flying too low and too fast and into fog and therefore acting negligently before they crashed.
[QUOTE ENDS]
[QUOTE]
Chinook pilots may be cleared by report
BRIAN BRADY WESTMINSTER EDITOR
A CONFIDENTIAL report that could clear two pilots of blame for the Mull of Kintyre helicopter disaster is lying on the desk of defence secretary Geoff Hoon, it emerged last night.
The Ministry of Defence has taken delivery of a technical report on the last seconds of Chinook flight ZD576 before it crashed into a hillside, killing the cream of Northern Ireland’s anti-terrorist intelligence forces, Whitehall sources have confirmed.
Ministers last month ordered Boeing, manufacturers of the doomed aircraft, to review their original analysis of the Chinook’s fatal journey in 1994 - including a flight simulation - after a House of Lords inquiry raised new questions about the cause of the crash.
But the families of RAF Flight Lieutenants Richard Cook and Jonathan Tapper may have to wait another four months to see whether the Boeing report backs the Lords’ decision to clear their sons of blame for the catastrophe.
The dossier will be sent to experts within the aviation industry for independent analysis before defence secretary Hoon makes a final decision.
MoD officials said he plans to answer the Lords’ points by September, when the six-month deadline for a response expires.
But it was clear last night that key figures within the department remain dead-set against overturning the original verdict of gross negligence handed down on both airmen.
"The technical questions the [Lords] report raised basically left us with no option but to go back to Boeing,’’ one senior ministerial source told Scotland on Sunday.
"But these are not fundamental issues. I don’t think any technical review can explain why these pilots were flying too low and too fast and into fog and therefore acting negligently before they crashed.
[QUOTE ENDS]
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But it was clear last night that key figures within the department remain dead-set against overturning the original verdict of gross negligence handed down on both airmen.
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InFinRetirement
You are right. they are scared. However, that makes them dangerous at they are obviously looking for any way out of the mess they created.
The summer recess is due shortly (sometime in June?) so there appears every chance the outcome will be announced during the recess.
It would be nice for this morally bankrupt administration to do the right thing for once.
You are right. they are scared. However, that makes them dangerous at they are obviously looking for any way out of the mess they created.
The summer recess is due shortly (sometime in June?) so there appears every chance the outcome will be announced during the recess.
It would be nice for this morally bankrupt administration to do the right thing for once.
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Chinook - Still Hitting Back
Brian, keep up the good work. The appalling arrogance with which those two very senior officers (who should have known better) changed the BOI findings and persist in trying to claim that it was still gross negligence makes me ashamed to have worn the blue-grey uniform for well over 20 years before it was finally hung up.
All power to your cause - and to your keyboard!
All power to your cause - and to your keyboard!
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Thank you for your kind comments Vertico.
I hope something positive happens soon, as even the MoD will soon struggle to justify the long delay. After all, they must have realised by now that I'm in no hurry to go anywhere!
There was only a passing mention to the Chinook crash in the Defence Debate in the House of Lords last week. No problem though, the Government were reminded that we are still here, and the problem is still theirs!
As always, thank you to everyone for your support. I'll keep you all updated with anything that comes my way (or maybe the odd thing that gets fired off from my direction!!)
Regards as always
Brian
"Justice has no expiry date" - John Cook
I hope something positive happens soon, as even the MoD will soon struggle to justify the long delay. After all, they must have realised by now that I'm in no hurry to go anywhere!
There was only a passing mention to the Chinook crash in the Defence Debate in the House of Lords last week. No problem though, the Government were reminded that we are still here, and the problem is still theirs!
As always, thank you to everyone for your support. I'll keep you all updated with anything that comes my way (or maybe the odd thing that gets fired off from my direction!!)
Regards as always
Brian
"Justice has no expiry date" - John Cook
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Just to let you all know that the petition has been updated and now contains 372 names. Thank you to everyone. Spread the word and we'll keep adding names!
A little under two weeks the the anniversary of the crash. I wonder if the Government will do something honourable before then?
Updates as and when
Regards as always
Brian
"Justice has no expiry date" - John Cook
A little under two weeks the the anniversary of the crash. I wonder if the Government will do something honourable before then?
Updates as and when
Regards as always
Brian
"Justice has no expiry date" - John Cook
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At a recent meeting I attended, I happened to bump into my MP! I voiced an opinion about the Chinook inquiry to which he agreed was done in all fairness by the Lords Select Committee, and that the MOD must do something positive "and not sit on their hands". He asked me to put my views in writing. That has been done. So still we wait!
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Nothing definite to report, but a little whisper going around is that the MoD will respond sometime towards the end of June / early July. Rumour is that the MoD will continue to refuse to overturn the verdict.
Now, I have no evidence to support these rumours, but now would be a good time to recontact your MP (regardless of what replies you have had before) and make some noise over the campaign. Get them to raise the issue wherever and whenever the opportuinty arises. Also, if you haven't signed the petition please do so. Let's try to get 500 names on there!
The campaign web site is changing servers at the moment, so if you have difficulty in logging on we apologise. However, please keep trying until you are successful.
The MoD need to be told that they are not above Government. If the MoD does not have to comply with Government recommendations / instructions, surely that means they are answerable to no-one! Are you happy with that situation??
Unconstitutional if you ask me!
Time to make some noise!!!
Regards as always, and thank you for your support.
Brian
"Justice has no expiry date" - John Cook
Now, I have no evidence to support these rumours, but now would be a good time to recontact your MP (regardless of what replies you have had before) and make some noise over the campaign. Get them to raise the issue wherever and whenever the opportuinty arises. Also, if you haven't signed the petition please do so. Let's try to get 500 names on there!
The campaign web site is changing servers at the moment, so if you have difficulty in logging on we apologise. However, please keep trying until you are successful.
The MoD need to be told that they are not above Government. If the MoD does not have to comply with Government recommendations / instructions, surely that means they are answerable to no-one! Are you happy with that situation??
Unconstitutional if you ask me!
Time to make some noise!!!
Regards as always, and thank you for your support.
Brian
"Justice has no expiry date" - John Cook
Brian,
Letter to Robert Walter MP duly sent.
If your rumours are correct and the MoD do reject the Lord's report, I assume that the campaign goes on. Presumably, whatever the outcome there will have to be a debate in the Commons which, the Government is trying to ensure, cannot be before October.
Bombarding our MP's with letters now might conceivably bring pressure for an emergency debate before the Summer recess? If it doesn't get resolved, I suggest we bombard them with letters all through the Summer, using this BB to coordinate ideas.
On this point. we should always request information back from our MP's. This means that they have to reply.
Letter to Robert Walter MP duly sent.
If your rumours are correct and the MoD do reject the Lord's report, I assume that the campaign goes on. Presumably, whatever the outcome there will have to be a debate in the Commons which, the Government is trying to ensure, cannot be before October.
Bombarding our MP's with letters now might conceivably bring pressure for an emergency debate before the Summer recess? If it doesn't get resolved, I suggest we bombard them with letters all through the Summer, using this BB to coordinate ideas.
On this point. we should always request information back from our MP's. This means that they have to reply.
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Thanks Pulse.
There will, indeed, be a debate at some point. Yet another opportunity for the Government to use the phrase "too low, too fast"?? We'll have to wait and see.
Good advice also on what to do when writing to your MP. Always give them something to do and not just ask them for support.
Talking of which, in case anyone wants to write to their MP to ask them to sign the Early Day Motion (No 829) supporting the Lords Report and calling for the Govenrment to quash the verdict, here's a sample letter:
Re: EDM 829 calling for exoneration of pilots killed in Mull of Kintyre Chinook crash
As one of your constituents, I am writing to you to ask if you would sign and lodge the attached Early Day Motion 829, which calls for the deceased pilots’ reputations to be restored.
It is almost eight years since the crash, seven years since the original verdict was brought down by a RAF Board of Inquiry. Two Air Marshals overturned the findings of the other members of that Board, and found the pilots guilty of gross negligence with no doubt whatsoever. Since that time, every couple of years there has been an inquiry into the crash: the Scottish Fatal Accidents Inquiry in 1996, the Commons Defence Committee report produced in 1998, the Commons Public Accounts Committee report in 2000, and the Lords Select Committee report in February of this year. Other than the Defence Committee, which looked at the wider implications of the crash and not its cause, all other investigations have come to the same conclusion: that the deceased pilots should never have been charged as guilty. Both the PAC and the Lords Select Committee reports call for the verdict to be overturned.
I understand that the MoD are due to respond to this latest report soon. As with their responses over the last eight years, I expect a wholly negative review from the Ministry of Defence.
By signing the EDM, you will be adding your name in support of those families who seek only to clear their sons’ names. I do hope you will feel able to do so, and I look forward to hearing from you soon.
The EDM currently has 81 signatories. Check the following link to see if your MP has already signed. If they haven't please drop them a line.
http://edm.ais.co.uk/weblink/html/motion.html/ref=829
As always, I'm grateful for your help.
Regards as always
Brian
"Justice has no expiry date" - John Cook
There will, indeed, be a debate at some point. Yet another opportunity for the Government to use the phrase "too low, too fast"?? We'll have to wait and see.
Good advice also on what to do when writing to your MP. Always give them something to do and not just ask them for support.
Talking of which, in case anyone wants to write to their MP to ask them to sign the Early Day Motion (No 829) supporting the Lords Report and calling for the Govenrment to quash the verdict, here's a sample letter:
Re: EDM 829 calling for exoneration of pilots killed in Mull of Kintyre Chinook crash
As one of your constituents, I am writing to you to ask if you would sign and lodge the attached Early Day Motion 829, which calls for the deceased pilots’ reputations to be restored.
It is almost eight years since the crash, seven years since the original verdict was brought down by a RAF Board of Inquiry. Two Air Marshals overturned the findings of the other members of that Board, and found the pilots guilty of gross negligence with no doubt whatsoever. Since that time, every couple of years there has been an inquiry into the crash: the Scottish Fatal Accidents Inquiry in 1996, the Commons Defence Committee report produced in 1998, the Commons Public Accounts Committee report in 2000, and the Lords Select Committee report in February of this year. Other than the Defence Committee, which looked at the wider implications of the crash and not its cause, all other investigations have come to the same conclusion: that the deceased pilots should never have been charged as guilty. Both the PAC and the Lords Select Committee reports call for the verdict to be overturned.
I understand that the MoD are due to respond to this latest report soon. As with their responses over the last eight years, I expect a wholly negative review from the Ministry of Defence.
By signing the EDM, you will be adding your name in support of those families who seek only to clear their sons’ names. I do hope you will feel able to do so, and I look forward to hearing from you soon.
The EDM currently has 81 signatories. Check the following link to see if your MP has already signed. If they haven't please drop them a line.
http://edm.ais.co.uk/weblink/html/motion.html/ref=829
As always, I'm grateful for your help.
Regards as always
Brian
"Justice has no expiry date" - John Cook
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I've just finished moving the campaign website to a new server, to allow us better facilities. The address remains the same - www.chinook-justice.org.
There are two main differences - firstly, you can now sign the petition online, which means you no longer have to send us an email. I know some people were reluctant to signup as they didn't want to reveal their email addresses, so this should now no longer be an issue. Of course, you can still sign the petition by sending an email to [email protected].
Secondly we have created a mailing list, which will allow us to keep people posted with developments. As before, all email addresses submitted to us are confidential, and will not be revealed to anyone.
If there are any issues with the new site please email me - [email protected]
The petition currently stands at 372 names, so if you haven't signed up yet please do - the fight isn't over yet.
There are two main differences - firstly, you can now sign the petition online, which means you no longer have to send us an email. I know some people were reluctant to signup as they didn't want to reveal their email addresses, so this should now no longer be an issue. Of course, you can still sign the petition by sending an email to [email protected].
Secondly we have created a mailing list, which will allow us to keep people posted with developments. As before, all email addresses submitted to us are confidential, and will not be revealed to anyone.
If there are any issues with the new site please email me - [email protected]
The petition currently stands at 372 names, so if you haven't signed up yet please do - the fight isn't over yet.
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Thanks Chocks. The site looks great.
8th Anniversary of the accident today. Spare a thought for all 29 who were lost.
My promise to the Tapper and Cook families is that I will continue to campaign for this injustice to be rectified for as long as it takes.
Regards as always
Brian
"Justice has no expiry date" - John Cook
8th Anniversary of the accident today. Spare a thought for all 29 who were lost.
My promise to the Tapper and Cook families is that I will continue to campaign for this injustice to be rectified for as long as it takes.
Regards as always
Brian
"Justice has no expiry date" - John Cook
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Brian, sorry to sound a negative note, but I assume you have tactics in mind if the MOD flatly refuses to budge despite all that has gone before?
Thinking of all those who perished...
Regards,
FJJP
Thinking of all those who perished...
Regards,
FJJP
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Hi FJJP,
there are, indeed, plans in place in the likely event of the MoD ignoring everyone else on the planet except two arrogant individuals.
Please don't think me rude if I don't go into detail just yet. Don't want to tip anyone off!!
I can only hope that the MoD will use "moral courage" and finally make the only choice available to them - that of removing the negligence slur.
We shall soon find out.
Regards as always
Brian
"Justice has no expiry date" - John Cook
there are, indeed, plans in place in the likely event of the MoD ignoring everyone else on the planet except two arrogant individuals.
Please don't think me rude if I don't go into detail just yet. Don't want to tip anyone off!!
I can only hope that the MoD will use "moral courage" and finally make the only choice available to them - that of removing the negligence slur.
We shall soon find out.
Regards as always
Brian
"Justice has no expiry date" - John Cook
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Brian, of course I did not expect you to give out the information on the next next phase - I was just triggering the next event!
Ever the optimist, I am hoping that MOD will see sense and make the decision that we are all waiting for. You never know - miracles do sometimes happen.
Regards,
FJJP
Ever the optimist, I am hoping that MOD will see sense and make the decision that we are all waiting for. You never know - miracles do sometimes happen.
Regards,
FJJP
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I also hear these worrying rumours
Brian you are doing an excellent job, keep up the good work. The more "irritating sods" we have bothering MPs the better.
The EDM is very important. It is on 81 signatures, it really needs to be whacked up to a ton and a half. If you read this and have not got in touch with your MP, do it now!
TL
Brian you are doing an excellent job, keep up the good work. The more "irritating sods" we have bothering MPs the better.
The EDM is very important. It is on 81 signatures, it really needs to be whacked up to a ton and a half. If you read this and have not got in touch with your MP, do it now!
TL
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FJJP,
apologies if my reply to you appeared to be an entry in the Granny egg sucking competition. It wasn't meant like that (although you knew that anyway!) :o
Like you, I'm hopeful - but prepared!!
TL Thou,
thank you for your kind words, but I must remind you that I am only one of many involved in the campaign. Wonder what the plural if "Irritating Sod" is?
Check out Computer Weekly tomorrow (06/06/02). I understand that there will be another good article by Tony Collins in there. Probably take the MoD four to six weeks to read it though!!
Regards as always
Brian
"Justice has no expiry date" - John Cook
apologies if my reply to you appeared to be an entry in the Granny egg sucking competition. It wasn't meant like that (although you knew that anyway!) :o
Like you, I'm hopeful - but prepared!!
TL Thou,
thank you for your kind words, but I must remind you that I am only one of many involved in the campaign. Wonder what the plural if "Irritating Sod" is?
Check out Computer Weekly tomorrow (06/06/02). I understand that there will be another good article by Tony Collins in there. Probably take the MoD four to six weeks to read it though!!
Regards as always
Brian
"Justice has no expiry date" - John Cook