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Chinook - Still Hitting Back 3 (Merged)

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Chinook - Still Hitting Back 3 (Merged)

Old 9th Jul 2011, 20:45
  #7961 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Herefordshire
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Well done all of you who have been fighting this injustice for years.
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Old 9th Jul 2011, 21:19
  #7962 (permalink)  
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Too soon as yet but it will be a good moment when this thread becomes *unsticky*. Then it will be truly over. Well done to everyone who kept the campaign going.
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Old 9th Jul 2011, 22:01
  #7963 (permalink)  
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If these reports turn out to be true, sincere wishes to all the families and campaigners here and elsewhere for tirelessly seeking the truth.
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Old 9th Jul 2011, 22:54
  #7964 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 1998
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Airborne Aircrew
Whilst I now nothing new other than what I have seen on the news this evening, and I have enjoyed many beers, I hope the findings of the enquiry are that there was reasonable doubt as to the cause of the accident, hence negligence was a bollox finding.
That for me was the issue, with no CVFDR the board could not eliminate many possible scenario's so, according to the rules at the time, they should not have found the crew negligent. This does not mean that the board did not identify the most likely scenario, and I think it unlikely (but possible) there was airworthiness issue with the chinook fleet at the time.
I knew Jon and Rick well and after many years of injustice, I hope their names are cleared
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Old 9th Jul 2011, 23:01
  #7965 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: The North
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Welcome news

Great news, Jon and Rick finally laid to rest. Wratten, I hope justice finds you.....
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Old 9th Jul 2011, 23:04
  #7966 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2011
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William Wratten

Surely steps should be taken to remove the 'Sir'.
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Old 9th Jul 2011, 23:19
  #7967 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2002
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Many thanks for your post #8043. The weasel words of "Sir" Michael Graydon on the Radio 4 link almost defy belief. His is the mindset which has prevented justice from being done well before now. Sadly, I have it on good authority that "Stars" have not only followed the same line ever since the tragedy, but that their current successors are slavishly following in their footsteps.

What a tragedy for our beloved Royal Air Force.

Last edited by Vertico; 9th Jul 2011 at 23:24. Reason: Clarification
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Old 9th Jul 2011, 23:24
  #7968 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Fingers crossed for this week, Tandems post not only sums the whole thing up but brought a very big lump to my throat.

Wratten et al I wish you no ill but I sincerely do hope your day comes soon.
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Old 9th Jul 2011, 23:38
  #7969 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2000
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It remains a tragedy that it has taken so long to bring this matter within a gnat's breadth of a conclusion. It is a credit to Brian Dixon for starting what is probably one of the longest threads on the Internet. It is a credit to the forum for allowing us to indulge ourselves here over the years. I would refer you to my earlier postings, but they are no longer appropriate.

I really wish the senior airships would understand what they have done and the harm they have caused. They seem blissfully unaware of the depth of feeling at 'our' level. They still seem blissfully unaware that so many of us, with differing levels of experience (my 1000+ hours on SH are as nothing to some who contribute here), do not understand how they reached the conclusions they did no matter how much we read those conclusions .

It would be nice to think, as others have hinted, that some good will come out of this and the system will be improved for the collective good of those who serve now and those who have yet to serve.
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Old 10th Jul 2011, 06:59
  #7970 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2001
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The Wheels of Justice turn exceedingly slowly.

Hopefully the crew will finally be fully exonerated, and also hopefully those responsible for the original travesty of justice will get their just deserts.
No more reading the delusional rantings of the supporters of Wrotten and Day.
A very hearty "Well done Brian and team".
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Old 10th Jul 2011, 07:54
  #7971 (permalink)  
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Pilots 'cleared' over Mull of Kintyre Chinook crash - Telegraph
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Old 10th Jul 2011, 15:04
  #7972 (permalink)  
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Location: UK (and now rarely behind enemy lines but still enjoying foreign climes.)
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A hearty congratulations to the the core of folk who have worked so hard to keep this injustice at the forefront of everyone's minds. It has taken an unbelievably long time to get a result that, to right-thinking people, was obvious from the start. But Dark Forces have worked very hard to make the process painful and slow. Nevertheless, grim determination that natural justice should prevail has seen the process through. Those of you close to this matter can be very, very proud indeed!

Wratten et al I wish you no ill but I sincerely do hope your day comes soon.
I'm going to have to take a contrary view there - I want to see heads on stakes! And it is pretty obvious whose heads they should be.

[Sir William Wratten, my 4rse! Bill the Bonehead, more like ........]
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Old 10th Jul 2011, 15:17
  #7973 (permalink)  
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But Dark Forces have worked very hard to make the process painful and slow.

But Dark Forces have worked very hard to make the process painful and slow.
How true. It took some 16 years for the CHART report to be revealed. How long will it take for NART?


Sorry, that should be 19 years (1992 to 2011)

Last edited by Distant Voice; 10th Jul 2011 at 18:24. Reason: correction
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Old 10th Jul 2011, 18:19
  #7974 (permalink)  
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BBC News - Mull of Kintyre Chinook crash report 'clears pilots'

About time.
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Old 10th Jul 2011, 20:59
  #7975 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Scotland
Posts: 664
It is perhaps a measure of how red faced MoD is over this issue that the finding has been leaked over a weekend when the press is in a self-obsessed feeding frenzy over the demise of the News of the Screws.

Well done Brian and all at the MoKG.
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Old 10th Jul 2011, 23:53
  #7976 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2001
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Well done, Brian & Co!
What a shame that it took so long.
The sad thing is that it wasn't in my view about airmanship, it was about interpretation of the englsh languge. The [I]beyond a shodow of doubt" element always failed because ACM W & Co were trying to prove a negative.
Do I recall him saying in the HoL or one of the other hearings, "there is no other explanation"
This is way short of the proof needed for gross negligence.

Last edited by chippy63; 11th Jul 2011 at 00:57.
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Old 13th Jul 2011, 09:57
  #7977 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2001
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Posts: 461
Unfortunately i dont have time to read thru the thousands of posts on this topic, so i hope someone can please provide an answer to this question. If the pilots have been cleared of blame for the crash, then why EXACTLY did it crash? It just seems common sense to me that you cant do the former without knowing the latter. I dont know much about it and that question just popped into my mind. Thnx.

Last edited by Private jet; 13th Jul 2011 at 10:13.
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Old 13th Jul 2011, 10:05
  #7978 (permalink)  

Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Bourton-on-the-Water
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Today is the day

Today is the day - after nearly 2 weeks of badgering the MoD for information, I finally received an email from them this morning.
The Secretary of State will announce the outcome of the Mull of Kintyre Independent Review by Oral Statement in the House of Commons today after Parliamentary Questions. The MOD will be issuing a Press Release after the announcement. Both the Review and the Statement will be available on the internet and our Press Release will contain links.

I would be more than happy to Email you a copy of the Press Release after the announcement.
I will post the press release if I can

I note that it's probably be a good day for the MoD to make what may be a 'difficult' announcement - Liam Fox has to wait for the Prime Minister to make his oral statement on News International first.


Late addition:
I now understand Fox' statement will be at 1330.

Last edited by airsound; 13th Jul 2011 at 10:17. Reason: rubbish grammar!
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Old 13th Jul 2011, 10:23
  #7979 (permalink)  
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Private Jet, I'd have to disagree with you that the 2 are linked in the way you describe. If the cause of the crash isn't positively determined then the crew can't be blamed. Thankfully, safety management has moved on since the accident and finding the guilty party has given way to understanding everything you can about an accident or incident and fixing all the problems you can and managing the risks of the ones that you can't. A structured application of Just Culture is a huge step forward. For a bit of light reading I can whole-heartedly recommend "Whack a Mole" by David Marx. The hard part of course is that "To Err is Human, to blame is even more human".
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Old 13th Jul 2011, 10:34
  #7980 (permalink)  
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In accordance with MoD rules for Boards of Inquiry (BoI) into aircraft accidents, in order to pronounce negligence on the part of a crew, there must be absolutely no doubt whatsoever as to the cause. This was the original finding of the BoI concerned, which was subsequently overturned by the two Air Marshals who convened the BoI: from the outset, there was a very significent majority of those knowledgeable in these matters which asserted that they were very wrong to do so. The MoD Independent Review has upheld this view, which once and for all concludes the issue.

Hope that, in a nutshell, helps. The Government's statements later today should provide more substance.
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