aircrew retention latest

[Ali Barber]

Can someone post some details about this new Professional Aircrew? Why can Lurkposition not join it if he's already Spec Aircrew?

[PoorPongo]

Barney,

The same detail occurs for you as in Stopstarts posting earlier. ie if your pension date (22 done) falls between the dates shown then you will indeed be entitled to the amounts listed.

No question. AAC SNCO aircrew are included. Only difference is that in order to get the second payment(FRI2) then you need to either get commissioned or accepted for continuation/LSL(A) etc. Then you will be eligible for a further 30K bonus (officers get £50K) for a further 5 years. You are then likely become offical Spec Aircrew (or Professional Aircrew stream as they are calling it) and your whole salary including flying pay - and this is only for NCOs beyond pension point - will become pensionable.

I think it's actually a pretty good deal and I've heard that the Director had to put his head a fair way above the parapet to make sure our NCO pilots got it.

I got B...... all BTW!

PP

[cheapseat]

H V Rental

We need career officers? The SAR Force has literally moved 'up' by one rank (Flt Lt flight commanders now Sqn Ldr etc) for what. Identical kit to then, worst shortages and, more to the point, worst morale.

[lurkposition]

A great Catch XII

One needs 5 or more years of service left to swap over to PA.

It seems that Spec Ac will be retained and phased out as we fade out.

It's not a major big deal as I will not lose out on my expected pension - one must be prepared to put up with the transition phase but we all have the slightly verdigris taint to our eyes, somewhere !

Cheers,

[CSRO]

PP

We were told that AAC officers could also apply to PA but that numbers would be limited. Mainly QHIs who could be employed without career implications.

Also, glad to see someone else got B..... all.

Personally I am pleased for those that did and all in all think the AAC will keep more people as a result.

Hurrah for FRI, especially as SNCO pilots included. Most SNCOs in Wattisham accepted the 30/50k difference at IPP quite frankly when it was explained that it was based on pension rates and said that by IPP most AAC officers have shouldered much more aviation responsibility and it was fair enough.

Well done the board - just don't lower the rates and keep grandfather rates for a decent period. For the carrot to work you have to have to be able to see it all the time!

[barneyrubble]

CRSO,. . I am also @ Whatashame but on det at the mo, could you please post or email me the gen, as i said,i have only 4 years left. Do i qualify for approx 22k as explained by stopstart.

BR

[fenestronuk]

csro

I agree that the AAC will win in the end. Unfortuneately I bet there are no way near enough PA slots for regular officers.

Having said that I do not believe it will be the rosey answer that some of our young aac officers think it is. It may look good now but frustration will set in when all their muckers pass them in rank and responsibility. Also how many non-pilot realted posts are there for aac officers? not many, so loss of flying pay for cs officers will not be an issue if mcm manage it properly.

look before you leap. Also if you are right then how many reg officer qhis do we have at IPP. not many.

I got a little but thought it was a good result.

AGREE WITH CARROT COMMENT AND THAT GRANDFATER RIGHTS MUST APPLY FROM FRI 1 to 2.

[Bosnia tour]

same for me cheers! have 4.11 years left. .oops is the cat out of the bag??

[Flatfish]

Another excellent retention package ! Thankfully at least lots more people benefit. . .However what have our lordships gained in terms of retention ? Most people in their last five years to run to the 'holy grail' of pension are in the 'pension trap' and pretty unlikely to leave. Of a quick poll around my squadron, not a single person in this bracket was considering leaving anyway. However the 28-32 year olds who missed out are still biding their time and waiting for the airlines to pick up. . .Also be very aware that the FRI1 & 2 will be subject to market forces, i.e. they could go down rapidly. Hardly a basis for future individual financial planning but an understandable element of flexibility for the armed forces.

So in summary, lots of people stay who were staying anyway and at enormous financial cost to the treasury. No more bleating because there won't be any more money for a long, long time.

Having said that, good wishes to all who are now planning holidays and new cars, I'm only jealous !

[Ed Winchester]

Another stupid question, in the aims of self-interest....

Having read the complete AFPRB report, I see that the scheme is to run for an initial timespan of 5 years.

Does this mean that when I reach my '5 years to go' point sometime next year, I get the wonga? Or is this a one off for people that fall into the bracket now?

Either way, it sounds like a good deal for a lot of Os and AAC SNCO aircrew. I'd just like to know if I'm getting a piece of the pie!!!!!

[WhichWay?]

Many are trying to find the details, hopefully they will find these links useful.

For the Powerpoint Slides presentation <a href="http://www.littleblueplanet.co.uk/fri.ppt" target="_blank">http://www.littleblueplanet.co.uk/fri.ppt</a>, for the Q & A brief <a href="http://www.littleblueplanet.co.uk/arrqa.doc" target="_blank">http://www.littleblueplanet.co.uk/arrqa.doc</a>, for the Pay Review Pay Scales <a href="http://www.littleblueplanet.co.uk/afprbsig.htm" target="_blank">http://www.littleblueplanet.co.uk/afprbsig.htm</a> and for the Pay Review Board Report <a href="http://www.littleblueplanet.co.uk/ARMED.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.littleblueplanet.co.uk/ARMED.pdf</a>

Bang goes my ID!

Time to register again!!

[ 29 January 2002: Message edited by: WhichWay? ]</p>

[jayteeto]

I've just spent some time reading the documents and have come to the conclusion that if you elect to stay, you will get a reasonably good deal. If you want to leave you won't. Isn't that what a retention package is meant to do? Sadly, I have decided to leave as I wanted more, my choice, no complaints. Thanks innsworth for your efforts, you did a good job <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

[Kaa050]

My "exotic" location accounts for the time on this post!

BUT, I think they have done a good job this time!! Not because I will get a wad, I don't think I will! (At least not yet), But because they have obviously thought about it very hard, and at least made a valiant effort, in the face of adversity. Well done. And to those with the "Wanga"...mines a bloody pint!

However, and there's always a "However", what about the NCOs? I hope they are not forgotten for long, or they may become the next "Issue".

Sorry guys, probably your turn next, when you all start (continue)leaving in droves.

Oh, I almost forgot, : AG...you're (Probably) a pr#@k. If it turns out I'm wrong, I'll be the first to apologise.

. .Kaa

[Ed Winchester]

WhichWay?

Thanks very much for the links - I found the answer to my question. Anyone who wants the full SP, check out WhichWay's Q&A link. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

[ 30 January 2002: Message edited by: Ed Winchester ]</p>

[MAD Boom]

How on earth can they call it a retention package when as part of it involves allowing pilots to transfer to BA?. .Surely the idea is to keep people in rather than encourage them to defect to the dark(but higher paid)side!

[jayteeto]

Wait for the GAI, it doesn't say at which stage they will transfer across. If it is at the 44 point, the retention pack will have given them an extra 6 years before they lose the pilot to the airlines anyway. Also consider the briefing caveat, A LIMITED NUMBER of pilots will be given jobs with BA. Work out for yourself who that will be.................

[Ghostflyer]

Feel I shouldn't really reply to this cos I've been out for a couple of years now and enjoy having a life. I didn't leave the RAF because of pay; I left because I was working 12 hour days, spending 7 months of the year away from home (when I was on the squadron) and every now and then got sent away to some god forsaken place for 4 months of unaccompanied holiday.

When I was young it was great but as I got older and the kids came along I started to take the view that my life stopped the day I left on a det or op until I could get home. There is only so much p*ss to be drunk and bonhomie to be had. I would go away for 3 weeks , let alone 3 months, and the kids started to forget who I was.

I am now out, I live in a sunny place, I work about 14 days a month on average and when I have time off it is my time. I take the kids to school about 60% of the time, see the missus and play golf without feeling guilty about taking up valuable family time. The pressure is off me and the family. I hope I might live a little longer than would have been the case if I'd stayed in.

During my time in the RAF I was involved in retention issues to some degree, not at Innsworth but at MOD meetings. I can't remember the exact numbers but Innsworth reckoned they could solve the retention problem if they increased the return of service from something like age 31.7 to 33.6.

The USAF tried this, they gave pilots $20,000/year for 7 years to stay. The uptake was about 30% and most of the guys taking the bonus where going to stay anyway. The guys in the know looked at a United Captains salary at the end of their career, worst case about $300,000 and realised that for every year they stayed they were throwing away the chance to earn about about $230,000 extra/year. (The difference between their salary now and what they would get paid at the end.) In addition, they were blowing their chances of an investment portfolio (from a 401K)on retirement that even in 1996 added up to over $3,000,000.

The RAF have now offered (after tax) £18,000 at 33 and £30,000 at 38 for the best years of your life. It becomes harder to move when you are 43 than you might believe. A UK charter captain at the end of his career still makes a minimum of £30,000/year more than the average RAF officer

Current economic circumstances might make it hard to leave (we all know things will eventually pick up) and I respect the decision of anyone to stay in. One of my buddies has done just that.

All I would say to those of you have been waved the cash, take all factors into account. Think about your family, your way of life, the stress you get put under and the thanks you receive. This won't change the infrastructure of your base, it won't bring Eurofighter into service a minute earlier. £18k should pay for a nice new sofa and a down payment on a 2 bedroom flat in Sleaford. It won't take the pressure off and it won't make you live any longer or much happier.

I am fortunate, I have a job now that pays for the lifestyle I want. The longest I spend away from home is about 4 days and I get time off to enjoy living.

Sorry about that but when you near 40 you start to come up with old fart stuff from time to time.

Enjoy the money if you take it, but stop bitching, no one will care and it won't change anything. Otherwise, make a change, my experience says that, all things considered, having a life will be for the better.

Ghost <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

[ 30 January 2002: Message edited by: Ghostflyer ]</p>

[Tourist]

I'm 28. Doesn't do sh@t for me. Just the same old ******s who were staying in anyway get some thank you cash. Pile of ars@!

[Min Decent Ht]

I'm lucky enough to actually qualify for this hand out (sorry to gloat). As opposed to last year's cunning plan to receive enough money for a second hand car provided you had brown hair, your birthday was on a Monday, your better half wasn't Welsh etc.... .I'm amazed, but won't start laughing until the cash is in my mit.. .However, I'd like to thank Ghostflyer for putting it all in perspective. His post should remind us all that the most important thing in life is to be happy. With the introduction of PA perhaps we can start telling the sqn boss to shove his 14 hr days where the sun don't shine and live a little- not feeling guilty about an occasional sports afternoon for instance (golf obviously, not anything sweaty). You've always got the fall back plan of reminding Wg Cdr bosses that you'll be getting a bigger pension than them.. .Perhaps not.. .Because of this retention scheme I'm staying in. If there is some quality of life and the kids continue to remember me I'll probably do an extra 5 years = I win enough cash for a house deposit, and the RAF win too. Flying airliners would have bored the **** out of me anyway .

[OldBonaMate]

Strange isn't it? Only 7 years ago we came to the end of a series of redundancies where those with more than 5 years left to serve were being paid more (in real terms) to leave than you guys are now being offered to stay.

Think of all the excellent new operational equipment you could have had if these examples of financial profligacy had not been necessary. Binnsworth has an awful lot answer for, methinks.

As our buddies in the lower 48 would say: What goes around, comes around.

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