Michael Yon's latest - on British Media Ops 25/09/09
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SO let us use this argument in particular.....
Terry T gets lucky and downs a chinook,
Terry T sees his shot and goes on radio "laa laa laa I shot down your helicopter etc"
At this point the truth is out there,
brit mil know truth and are told to lie to:
a) Misinform Terry who saw it downed,
b) Misinform other mil personnel who are aware of how vulnerable they are and the dangers they face,
c) Misinform Joe Public and then let them talk about Jordan or Big Bother instead
Place your bets please. Oh and as to the rest of the "rant" that has been purported. I woud rather have Mr Yon and a warts and all than any speech from "Bull**** Bob". Further more, if you were in his position and the choice was toe the line or speak the truth what would you do?
Terry T gets lucky and downs a chinook,
Terry T sees his shot and goes on radio "laa laa laa I shot down your helicopter etc"
At this point the truth is out there,
brit mil know truth and are told to lie to:
a) Misinform Terry who saw it downed,
b) Misinform other mil personnel who are aware of how vulnerable they are and the dangers they face,
c) Misinform Joe Public and then let them talk about Jordan or Big Bother instead
Place your bets please. Oh and as to the rest of the "rant" that has been purported. I woud rather have Mr Yon and a warts and all than any speech from "Bull**** Bob". Further more, if you were in his position and the choice was toe the line or speak the truth what would you do?
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You make a fair point AA.
I'm sure that the frustrating circumstance just got the better of Yon and we're reading the reaction. Maybe his next offering will clear up the issues he raises wrt the out-and-out lies that he was told by Media Ops staff, at various levels. And I hope he keeps doing what he has been doing, within the bounds of OpSec.
Let's also hope that the now infamous Major reads this thread, and adjusts his attitude accordingly - or has it adjusted for him.
I'm sure that the frustrating circumstance just got the better of Yon and we're reading the reaction. Maybe his next offering will clear up the issues he raises wrt the out-and-out lies that he was told by Media Ops staff, at various levels. And I hope he keeps doing what he has been doing, within the bounds of OpSec.
Let's also hope that the now infamous Major reads this thread, and adjusts his attitude accordingly - or has it adjusted for him.
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Two's in You write:
I absolutely agree that reports should not aid the enemy by providing accurate BDA (the value of such assessment, I fully understand). However, in this case, as stated by Yon, the Taliban were able to make their own, on the spot BDA, confirming weapons effect and range (which, if they didn't know until then, such knowledge deficiency could easily have been rectified by viewing the movie Black Hawk Down). Hence, in this case, the Taliban had no need to suspect anything - the confirmation was in front of their eyes. Therefore, a double triumph for the enemy as they had downed a Chinook and later MOD obfuscation (spin) confirmed to them that not only was the UK Government at war with them but also seriously at loggerheads with its own populus as evidenced by an inability to tell them the truth of the matter. A bit of an own goal I think.
I had a trawl through the Defence of the Realm website. Run back two or three pages (click Older Posts) and the article covering the event can be found with the title "Chinook shot down". Interesting to note that the article states:
Has Michael Yon therefore been aiding the enemy by confirming what the Taliban already witnessed with their own eyes and which MoD later concurred? Perhaps also wiser heads further up the MoD chain realised the potential "own goal" and decided to come clean. Are we being best served by the Major and Lt Col. in country?
The balance to be struck is between providing truthful and accurate reports but at the same time not aiding the enemy by the nature of those reports. How could they be aiding the enemy? Quite simple really, if you understand the value of Battle Damage Assessment (BDA). suddenly the bad guys are getting confirmation of weapons effects and ranges, things they might have suspected before, but here we are confirming it in the name of good journalism. I don't belive Michael Yon is guilty of this here, but others have.
I had a trawl through the Defence of the Realm website. Run back two or three pages (click Older Posts) and the article covering the event can be found with the title "Chinook shot down". Interesting to note that the article states:
The MoD, initially, quite deliberately did not rule out enemy action, and have now confirmed that the aircraft was brought down by a combination of "RPG and small-arms fire".
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
AP75,
All valid points, but at the risk of diving too far down this rabbit hole, how do manage the release of this type of information effectively? Do you let the journo's make a detemination of whether critical military capability will be revealed by reporting the full story, do you ask the Taliban whether they already knew that particular Opsec characteristic, or is some overworked Int guy now required to make a security assessment solely for the purpose of allowing the story to be published by the general media?
Does public release justify a whole additional level of scrutiny and vetting for each correspondent's story, instead of the general release provided by the media pool? Maybe it does, but nobody should think that allowing journo's to publish the "truth" from an operational area doesn't carry an associated burden for the Military.
All valid points, but at the risk of diving too far down this rabbit hole, how do manage the release of this type of information effectively? Do you let the journo's make a detemination of whether critical military capability will be revealed by reporting the full story, do you ask the Taliban whether they already knew that particular Opsec characteristic, or is some overworked Int guy now required to make a security assessment solely for the purpose of allowing the story to be published by the general media?
Does public release justify a whole additional level of scrutiny and vetting for each correspondent's story, instead of the general release provided by the media pool? Maybe it does, but nobody should think that allowing journo's to publish the "truth" from an operational area doesn't carry an associated burden for the Military.
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Before you embarrass yourself too much rmac, you may want to look at this......
Helmand Bl0gspot
Besides the fact that public outings leave the nasty taste in your mouth, I think you may have the wrong bloke.
As for the
well that is something that you can take up with Maj Smyth, now that you have an avenue for communication with him, that is, through the Helmand Blog.
All the best with that one.
Helmand Bl0gspot
Journalist Michael Yon posted a report this morning - Bull**** Bob - it makes for interesting reading - and I seem to have been confused as the unnamed major.
Since May last year I have been pretty busy working within Media Ops. I have served in Kosovo with 2 RIFLES and Iraq within MND(SE) and I am now a week away from a tour in Afghanistan, somewhere I have not been since 2006.
I am currently in the UK and am not the unnamed major Michael Yon refers to. With any luck I will have the chance to meet and work with Michael when he returns to Helmand.
Kind regards
Major Paul Smyth
Since May last year I have been pretty busy working within Media Ops. I have served in Kosovo with 2 RIFLES and Iraq within MND(SE) and I am now a week away from a tour in Afghanistan, somewhere I have not been since 2006.
I am currently in the UK and am not the unnamed major Michael Yon refers to. With any luck I will have the chance to meet and work with Michael when he returns to Helmand.
Kind regards
Major Paul Smyth
As for the
blatant self publicity while the boys are suffering
All the best with that one.
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OK humble pie eaten related ID of major, and note of Major named in other link made ! (so OK to post the link that names the name by the look of things).
What makes it worrying is that there are at least two if not more (many more !)of these "media ops" specialists propping up the propaganda effort of our morally bankrupt leadership.
These are the guys who are paying for it
I owe my life to MC hero Locky: Private's sad tribute to warrior who saved him from battlefield | Mail Online
Shame, shame , shame
What makes it worrying is that there are at least two if not more (many more !)of these "media ops" specialists propping up the propaganda effort of our morally bankrupt leadership.
These are the guys who are paying for it
I owe my life to MC hero Locky: Private's sad tribute to warrior who saved him from battlefield | Mail Online
Shame, shame , shame
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Two's in Yup, agreed and not a great idea to go too far down the rabbit hole. However, Michael Yon has a track record of not compromising OPSEC and not assisting Taliban BDA. He also has a great bio and comes across to me as a brave and truthful battlefield reporter (in marked contrast to the desk-bound and wearisomely mendacious official spokespersons of the NuLabour junta).
I've just re-read Yon's dispatch in question and note the following:
Perhaps, reading between the lines, Yon has been shafted by Major xxx and Lt Col. yyy on orders from above, due what rmac describes as:
In this context, I maintain the view that Michael Yon is doing us all a great service in the face of concerted efforts to silence information and opinion that is embarrassing to the current British regime. Long may he continue to report.
I've just re-read Yon's dispatch in question and note the following:
The surprise discontinuation of my embedment from the British Army left my schedule in a train wreck. Until that decisive moment, I am told, that my embed with the British Army had lasted longer than anyone else’s; other than Ross Kemp’s. I’ve also been told that I’ve spent more time with the British Army in Iraq than any correspondent. So it’s fair to say, we have good history together.......
........My latest embed with British 2 Rifles, which began in July, was extended on at least two occasions. The British Ministry of Defence (MoD) had recently agreed that I would spend roughly one more month with 2 Rifles. My scheduled embeds with the United States Air Force and Marines were specifically arranged around the British schedule, and I was enjoying reporting on the excellent British troops.
........I do not know the reason for the embed termination. My best guess is that it relates to my sustained criticism that the British government is not properly resourcing its soldiers.
........My latest embed with British 2 Rifles, which began in July, was extended on at least two occasions. The British Ministry of Defence (MoD) had recently agreed that I would spend roughly one more month with 2 Rifles. My scheduled embeds with the United States Air Force and Marines were specifically arranged around the British schedule, and I was enjoying reporting on the excellent British troops.
........I do not know the reason for the embed termination. My best guess is that it relates to my sustained criticism that the British government is not properly resourcing its soldiers.
What makes it worrying is that there are at least two if not more (many more !) of these "media ops" specialists propping up the propaganda effort of our morally bankrupt leadership.
Some of you blokes need a lesson in recognising the real enemy.
The enemy is not the press, and especially not this particular journo.
I understand that suspicion of the press is endemic in the forces, and there are some good reasons for this, though anyone with any intelligence would recognise that the reality of the situation is very much more complicated. The Media contains friends and foes, and can be both helpful and harmful, and as such demands a more sophisticated approach.
So what sort of enemy is Mr Yon?
One who concludes that: “My relationship with the British military is not diminished and I would go into combat with their soldiers anytime. My respect for British soldiers is immense and undying.”
One whose dispatches have been extraordinary, highly professional, incredibly moving documents that really do highlight the magnificent work that the UK forces have been doing in Afghanistan.
Mr Yon is an opponent of Government parsimony, and supports proper funding for the forces.
“My best guess is that it relates to my sustained criticism that the British government is not properly resourcing its soldiers.”
Mr Yon wants the West to win, and he’s an admirer, generally, of the UK Forces, and even our media ops people.
”Many soldiers in the British Media Ops are true professionals who strive constantly to improve at their tasks and work very well with correspondents. Their professionalism and understanding of the larger mission—ultimate victory—provide an invaluable service to the war effort.”
But Mr Yon does not expect to have to submit written questions and to be supplied with pre-prepared ‘spin’ answers.
He criticizes MCOs who “want correspondents to submit written questions so they can provide tidy answers.”
Mr Yon believes that the public deserve to be told the truth, and that that is not happening. He believes that while we are spending billions and shedding the blood of the best of a generation, we should not be dealing in spin and lies.
He points out that:
”The British people are demanding truth and they deserve accountability. They aren’t getting it from Camp Bastion.”
“This war is moving fast and there is no time for games. If a general does not want to tell his story, someone will tell it for him. He will have failed by losing another winnable media battle.”
Mr Yon believes that when Media Ops people deny particular problems (eg the shortage of helicopters) it can actually undermine our combat capability, because it reduces the pressure on the politicians to give our boys the kit they need and deserve.
The proper and honourable answer to a shortage of body armour in Iraq was not to deny that any such shortage existed, but to quickly rectify such deficiencies. He says:
” Media Ops people—who do not leave their base or go on missions—who are spooling out “the message” to the media. They are clueless about the state of the war in Afghanistan. For instance, many of the Media Ops officers will insist that we have enough helicopters in Afghanistan. Those officers are either completely oblivious to the actuality of the situation or lying.
General Petraeus told me straight up that we don’t have enough and that we doubled our helicopters in the last four months and are in the process of fielding “two more fistfuls.” (He did not give specific numbers.) Those BS-filled officers who deny the obvious are, in fact, symptomatic to why we are losing the war.”
“By perpetrating falsehoods that undermine our combat capacity, XXXX (a named Media Ops Officer) has helped the enemy.”
He’s just as critical of politicians who put out such spin.
”Mr. Ainsworth is lying to the British public about the helicopter issue in Afghanistan. Mr. Ainsworth tells the British public that British soldiers have enough helicopters. British troops are suffering—even dying—for those lies. Mr. Ainsworth is, in effect, murdering British soldiers by not resourcing them.”
I have to say that, as a journo, I think that Mr Yon makes good points in a pretty level headed and calm fashion (apart from the last criticism of Ainsworth, which is pretty explosive). But if you’re in the armed forces (an aggressive organization with an enviable reputation for being robust and used to ‘harsh banter’) and you think this is a rant, then seriously, you need to get out more.
I sympathise with the view that Yon's blog is pretty self-centred, but that’s because it’s a blog, and that’s what blogs are all about. If it was a piece in the Telegraph complaining that “he's not the story, but he seems to be in danger of thinking he should be” would be spot on. That's not good print journalism – but it’s what columnists and bloggers do.
And he highlights a real problem.
With some notable and honourable exceptions (especially among the blue-suiters in Main Building), the MoD’s media ops machine is broken. Tailored to providing PR for the Government, and to safeguarding the interests of Government Ministers, it fails to properly look after the interests of the individual services that the MoD exists to support and it regularly leaves the Forces looking bad.
One feels sorry for the good apples, like Tim Moore, who added a heartfelt comment to Yon’s bulletin. Kudos to Nick Gurr (Director of Media and Communications MOD) for his response, too.
UK media ops people are not all REMFS and purveyors of spin, of course, but the very small minority who are, represent grit in the machine.
As a working journo I would say that MoD Media Ops people and MCOs seldom do you (as servicemen) any good, and they very frequently exasperate, alienate, aggravate, frustrate and infuriate journos, sometimes driving on-side and supportive journos into wanting to give the MoD a darned good kicking.
This cannot be helpful.
I recognize Mr Yon’s complaint about MCOs ”threatening future access if a correspondent shows “attitude”, too.
The enemy is not the press, and especially not this particular journo.
I understand that suspicion of the press is endemic in the forces, and there are some good reasons for this, though anyone with any intelligence would recognise that the reality of the situation is very much more complicated. The Media contains friends and foes, and can be both helpful and harmful, and as such demands a more sophisticated approach.
So what sort of enemy is Mr Yon?
One who concludes that: “My relationship with the British military is not diminished and I would go into combat with their soldiers anytime. My respect for British soldiers is immense and undying.”
One whose dispatches have been extraordinary, highly professional, incredibly moving documents that really do highlight the magnificent work that the UK forces have been doing in Afghanistan.
Mr Yon is an opponent of Government parsimony, and supports proper funding for the forces.
“My best guess is that it relates to my sustained criticism that the British government is not properly resourcing its soldiers.”
Mr Yon wants the West to win, and he’s an admirer, generally, of the UK Forces, and even our media ops people.
”Many soldiers in the British Media Ops are true professionals who strive constantly to improve at their tasks and work very well with correspondents. Their professionalism and understanding of the larger mission—ultimate victory—provide an invaluable service to the war effort.”
But Mr Yon does not expect to have to submit written questions and to be supplied with pre-prepared ‘spin’ answers.
He criticizes MCOs who “want correspondents to submit written questions so they can provide tidy answers.”
Mr Yon believes that the public deserve to be told the truth, and that that is not happening. He believes that while we are spending billions and shedding the blood of the best of a generation, we should not be dealing in spin and lies.
He points out that:
”The British people are demanding truth and they deserve accountability. They aren’t getting it from Camp Bastion.”
“This war is moving fast and there is no time for games. If a general does not want to tell his story, someone will tell it for him. He will have failed by losing another winnable media battle.”
Mr Yon believes that when Media Ops people deny particular problems (eg the shortage of helicopters) it can actually undermine our combat capability, because it reduces the pressure on the politicians to give our boys the kit they need and deserve.
The proper and honourable answer to a shortage of body armour in Iraq was not to deny that any such shortage existed, but to quickly rectify such deficiencies. He says:
” Media Ops people—who do not leave their base or go on missions—who are spooling out “the message” to the media. They are clueless about the state of the war in Afghanistan. For instance, many of the Media Ops officers will insist that we have enough helicopters in Afghanistan. Those officers are either completely oblivious to the actuality of the situation or lying.
General Petraeus told me straight up that we don’t have enough and that we doubled our helicopters in the last four months and are in the process of fielding “two more fistfuls.” (He did not give specific numbers.) Those BS-filled officers who deny the obvious are, in fact, symptomatic to why we are losing the war.”
“By perpetrating falsehoods that undermine our combat capacity, XXXX (a named Media Ops Officer) has helped the enemy.”
He’s just as critical of politicians who put out such spin.
”Mr. Ainsworth is lying to the British public about the helicopter issue in Afghanistan. Mr. Ainsworth tells the British public that British soldiers have enough helicopters. British troops are suffering—even dying—for those lies. Mr. Ainsworth is, in effect, murdering British soldiers by not resourcing them.”
I have to say that, as a journo, I think that Mr Yon makes good points in a pretty level headed and calm fashion (apart from the last criticism of Ainsworth, which is pretty explosive). But if you’re in the armed forces (an aggressive organization with an enviable reputation for being robust and used to ‘harsh banter’) and you think this is a rant, then seriously, you need to get out more.
I sympathise with the view that Yon's blog is pretty self-centred, but that’s because it’s a blog, and that’s what blogs are all about. If it was a piece in the Telegraph complaining that “he's not the story, but he seems to be in danger of thinking he should be” would be spot on. That's not good print journalism – but it’s what columnists and bloggers do.
And he highlights a real problem.
With some notable and honourable exceptions (especially among the blue-suiters in Main Building), the MoD’s media ops machine is broken. Tailored to providing PR for the Government, and to safeguarding the interests of Government Ministers, it fails to properly look after the interests of the individual services that the MoD exists to support and it regularly leaves the Forces looking bad.
One feels sorry for the good apples, like Tim Moore, who added a heartfelt comment to Yon’s bulletin. Kudos to Nick Gurr (Director of Media and Communications MOD) for his response, too.
UK media ops people are not all REMFS and purveyors of spin, of course, but the very small minority who are, represent grit in the machine.
As a working journo I would say that MoD Media Ops people and MCOs seldom do you (as servicemen) any good, and they very frequently exasperate, alienate, aggravate, frustrate and infuriate journos, sometimes driving on-side and supportive journos into wanting to give the MoD a darned good kicking.
This cannot be helpful.
I recognize Mr Yon’s complaint about MCOs ”threatening future access if a correspondent shows “attitude”, too.
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Well, I'm not going to criticise Yon for what he has written. I think with him being ex-US MIL himself, OPSEC isnt going to be lost on him.
The old saying is that the first casualty of war is the truth, so we shouldnt really be surprised that this is happening.
The timing though and the er... previous history that this administration has for media manipulation is not helpful to their cause though, however righteous they may see it.
And this particular Major... wrong bloke, wrong place, wrong time.We've all seen them at some point, think they're Bertie Big B*ll*ks, but in reality are nothing short of bullies. I can understand Yon getting as frustrated and as confrontational as he did, saying that if you want me out of here that badly, then get the RMP's down to arrest me... not withstanding where they are and what is going on around them, he handled it badly.
Hardly makes him Lucifer though.
And, as Cornish said, I'd take the word of Michael Yon over 'Elicopter Bob anyday....
The old saying is that the first casualty of war is the truth, so we shouldnt really be surprised that this is happening.
The timing though and the er... previous history that this administration has for media manipulation is not helpful to their cause though, however righteous they may see it.
And this particular Major... wrong bloke, wrong place, wrong time.We've all seen them at some point, think they're Bertie Big B*ll*ks, but in reality are nothing short of bullies. I can understand Yon getting as frustrated and as confrontational as he did, saying that if you want me out of here that badly, then get the RMP's down to arrest me... not withstanding where they are and what is going on around them, he handled it badly.
Hardly makes him Lucifer though.
And, as Cornish said, I'd take the word of Michael Yon over 'Elicopter Bob anyday....
Thank God for the Michael Yon's of this world. The deceit and spin that is the MOD's way of life kills. It has already killed many aircrew by the obstructing of Accident Investigations that thus failed to reveal lack of airworthiness caused by the UK Military Airworthiness Authority (the same MOD) failure to properly implement its own regulations. Thus further such avoidable accidents go unprevented. We have the world's best Armed Forces and the worst Government Department running them. As in this case much of that maladministration is occasioned directly not by civil servants nor politicians but by commissioned officers. Shame on them!
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Pigs - try Helmand Blog - Afghanistan
It's not Anita's fault; Pprune automatically **s out the word bl0gsp0t, for reasons I don't understand.
It's not Anita's fault; Pprune automatically **s out the word bl0gsp0t, for reasons I don't understand.
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Don't know enough about Mr Yon's work to pass comment on his qualities but from what little I've read it seems reasonable. After all informed and responsible journalism can lead to improvements.
However there are some much more well known (and probably very well paid) British hacks who should really never be given any help by MoD or the forces. Some of them fly out to Afghanistan for a few days at our expense and are protected by our soldiers. Then they come back and on the basis of nothing but their own prejudice and bigotry claim UK forces are needlessly killing civilians. We should never forget that the information war we are fighting with the Taliban is aided by these people. Still there's nothing new about all this - lots of lies have been told about UK forces over the last four decades. What might help is if those MPs who claim to support the forces would stand up in Parliament - where they can't be sued - and name both the objective hacks (perhaps including Mr Yon) and the ones who will manipulate the truth to suit their own political prejudices. As Ernie Bevin once said a lie is half way round the world before the truth has got its boots on.
Sorry, rant over
However there are some much more well known (and probably very well paid) British hacks who should really never be given any help by MoD or the forces. Some of them fly out to Afghanistan for a few days at our expense and are protected by our soldiers. Then they come back and on the basis of nothing but their own prejudice and bigotry claim UK forces are needlessly killing civilians. We should never forget that the information war we are fighting with the Taliban is aided by these people. Still there's nothing new about all this - lots of lies have been told about UK forces over the last four decades. What might help is if those MPs who claim to support the forces would stand up in Parliament - where they can't be sued - and name both the objective hacks (perhaps including Mr Yon) and the ones who will manipulate the truth to suit their own political prejudices. As Ernie Bevin once said a lie is half way round the world before the truth has got its boots on.
Sorry, rant over
