ASaC7
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ASaC7
The other thread about this system has been closed, preumably because it was in danger of degenerating into a p...ing match again. However, the system seems to be proving its worth but I'm just not sure that the venerable SK is the right platform for it in this environment. In time (a long time) maybe the RN will receive a Merlin version but overland wouldn't it be more effcient (and probably cheaper in the long run) to have this system in a FW aircraft? Britten Norman proposed an AEW Defender/ Islander a few years ago using the Searchwater Radar, perhaps a similar aircraft with the ASaC7 mission kit would be a good buy?
I know, its probably a "nice to have" rather than an essential bit of kit given that the SKs are out there already but RN ASaC requirements will be denuded, maritime skill sets will perish, JFH may have fewer opportunities to practice with their controllers and the aircraft will be knackered, requiring replacement, that much more quickly.
I know, its probably a "nice to have" rather than an essential bit of kit given that the SKs are out there already but RN ASaC requirements will be denuded, maritime skill sets will perish, JFH may have fewer opportunities to practice with their controllers and the aircraft will be knackered, requiring replacement, that much more quickly.
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Valid points, but isnt it going to depend on what the potential use is against what particular threat?
For example its being highlighted that this version is proving helpful in Helmand. OK, so if that is the case, would we arguably be better using a BN platform instead? Possibly so.
But outside of Helmand, would we get the use out of it? Is there going to be anything there that cant feasibly be done by JTIDS/Link16?
JFH has a realistic life expectancy of how many more years?
Tricky one.
For example its being highlighted that this version is proving helpful in Helmand. OK, so if that is the case, would we arguably be better using a BN platform instead? Possibly so.
But outside of Helmand, would we get the use out of it? Is there going to be anything there that cant feasibly be done by JTIDS/Link16?
JFH has a realistic life expectancy of how many more years?
Tricky one.
So using land-based, knackered Navy Sea Kings with a maritime Searchwater radar in landlocked Afghanistan is supposed to show the relevance of the FAA?
Surely the relevance of the FAA is projecting maritime air power in a maritime conflict? Or are they desperately trying to justify their existence?
Surely the relevance of the FAA is projecting maritime air power in a maritime conflict? Or are they desperately trying to justify their existence?
Thread Starter
My post was nothing to do with the relevance of the FAA - it was to do with the relevance of the system and its current platform to Helmand.
I'm merely suggesting that if the system is useful then perhaps it might be employed on a more suitable platform in this op environmernt than knackered old FAA SKs.
Christ, why does every damn person have to turn threads into Crab Vs WAFU pi..ing matches? Pathetic.
I'm merely suggesting that if the system is useful then perhaps it might be employed on a more suitable platform in this op environmernt than knackered old FAA SKs.
Christ, why does every damn person have to turn threads into Crab Vs WAFU pi..ing matches? Pathetic.
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Surely the relevance of the FAA is projecting maritime air power in a maritime conflict? Or are they desperately trying to justify their existence?
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AA, spot on, my old boy! As I said on the previous thread, it is about getting a capability in theatre that helps the boys and girls on the ground. Does SKASaC do this?...in spades! Does it mean it should be there?....absolutely! Does it mean is was designed to do it? Not really, its a bonus, but one we should be thankful for.
Crab..., does the capability help SH or AH do their job?
ask them before complaining on here!
El Colonel!
Crab..., does the capability help SH or AH do their job?
ask them before complaining on here!
El Colonel!
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Just for the record, I dont wish to be interpreted as subscribe to the pissing contests. My contribution was purely about what would be the appropriate platform, regardless of the colour of the uniform flying it or operating it.
All this single-service willy waving sh*t (particularly in MB) has, in my very humble opinion led in no small part to the disjointed gaggle of systems and platforms we have now.
andyy, I share your exasperation.
All this single-service willy waving sh*t (particularly in MB) has, in my very humble opinion led in no small part to the disjointed gaggle of systems and platforms we have now.
andyy, I share your exasperation.
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Today, It's All We've Got
AA makes the point that, today, the SKASaC is all we've got so try thinking laterally. Southern Helmand is fundamentally flat and there is little to see (hmm - not unlike the briny). Sparsely populated, the 'homesteads' are invariably surrounded by substantial walls; Michael Yon's latest report for the US audience suggested a series of mini Alamos. So consider how these might stand out as radar targets at a fixed location and then how well movement might be tracked around them. Perhaps the more pertinent query might be about training crews and analysts to recognise land based targets? This forum has acknowledged elsewhere that this expertise has been around since Telic 1 and the Al Faw peninsular.
Regretably, the question about how do you meld and best exploit all the different ISTAR products from the many different coalition sources is not for this forum.
Regretably, the question about how do you meld and best exploit all the different ISTAR products from the many different coalition sources is not for this forum.
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Having spoken with an LO in theatre, it is performing very well in the niche role that it is tasked with.
What it really requires is a dedicated ground station for post flight analysis. This info can be fed into the big picture for pattern of life.
What it really requires is a dedicated ground station for post flight analysis. This info can be fed into the big picture for pattern of life.
Can anyone explain why the last thread on this subject was closed? There are far more contentious comments on the RAF Shawbury thread, yet that is still running days later.
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Jabba
Not getting into argument but L16 is great if "all" players have it, and it stays up. I've been in the situation where all the labels have gone to the bottom left of a screen and stayed there till we rebooted the computer and had to control from memory. Also not all players even these days have L16.
Personally I hope the Lordships will replace the Seaking with a better airframe and a better radar/link/radio fit.
Not getting into argument but L16 is great if "all" players have it, and it stays up. I've been in the situation where all the labels have gone to the bottom left of a screen and stayed there till we rebooted the computer and had to control from memory. Also not all players even these days have L16.
Personally I hope the Lordships will replace the Seaking with a better airframe and a better radar/link/radio fit.
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T1:
Fair enough, I see your point.
As Sentia and Data-Lynx have alluded to, maybe part of the focus should be on how to incorporate their outputs into the operational picture as much as the frame that is being used to collect the raw data.
Sentia:
Forgive my ignorance as it has been 10 years since I was in the trade and a fair amount has changed (not all for the better either) and I havent worked with this platform and certainly not in this environment... so there isnt a dedicated ground station already? I realise that this isnt necessarily the place to start talking about up and down links but if I understand it correctly, niche product that it is (and I dont mean to denigrate it, genuinely, I dont), it sounds very much like a sticky plaster solution that may well become the default because there is nothing else around or on the immediate horizon that fits this particular requirement.
Depending on what the future holds for Herrick though, how much of a look-in is ISTAR going to get, post-Afghanistan?
I mean it strikes me that the politicos are either going to subscribe to equipping the forces properly (pipe dream, I know, no realistic chance of that whatever political shade is in power) or the lack of public support for the mission (NOT the troops, but the real raison d'etre as to why we are there) could possibly result in its curtailment within a ten year period - there are already (allegedly) wiser heads than ours saying that without a change of mission focus, masses of extra boots on the ground, etc, we could be looking at defeat in 2 years. Given that our departure from Basra was hardly a glorious chapter in our military history, I have to say that fills me with dread.
So at some point, chances are within the next 10 years, although the original capability that this platform was designed for will still be required, particularly if the carriers arent cancelled, it possibly wont be in places hot, high and sandy.
It still begs the question though. Is it temporarily finding its way into the range of ISTAR solutions that can contribute to the overall operational picture by accident or by design...and should that be enhanced for the future, or just stick to its core function?
Or are there other istar ways of skinning this particular cat?
Food for thought.
Fair enough, I see your point.
As Sentia and Data-Lynx have alluded to, maybe part of the focus should be on how to incorporate their outputs into the operational picture as much as the frame that is being used to collect the raw data.
Sentia:
Forgive my ignorance as it has been 10 years since I was in the trade and a fair amount has changed (not all for the better either) and I havent worked with this platform and certainly not in this environment... so there isnt a dedicated ground station already? I realise that this isnt necessarily the place to start talking about up and down links but if I understand it correctly, niche product that it is (and I dont mean to denigrate it, genuinely, I dont), it sounds very much like a sticky plaster solution that may well become the default because there is nothing else around or on the immediate horizon that fits this particular requirement.
Depending on what the future holds for Herrick though, how much of a look-in is ISTAR going to get, post-Afghanistan?
I mean it strikes me that the politicos are either going to subscribe to equipping the forces properly (pipe dream, I know, no realistic chance of that whatever political shade is in power) or the lack of public support for the mission (NOT the troops, but the real raison d'etre as to why we are there) could possibly result in its curtailment within a ten year period - there are already (allegedly) wiser heads than ours saying that without a change of mission focus, masses of extra boots on the ground, etc, we could be looking at defeat in 2 years. Given that our departure from Basra was hardly a glorious chapter in our military history, I have to say that fills me with dread.
So at some point, chances are within the next 10 years, although the original capability that this platform was designed for will still be required, particularly if the carriers arent cancelled, it possibly wont be in places hot, high and sandy.
It still begs the question though. Is it temporarily finding its way into the range of ISTAR solutions that can contribute to the overall operational picture by accident or by design...and should that be enhanced for the future, or just stick to its core function?
Or are there other istar ways of skinning this particular cat?
Food for thought.
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Links
Jabba,
Not going into detail but the SK Mk7 Link fit and system is quite capable having worked with it in the not too distant past. Furthermore, it's product is far from niche and can often get right to the people that need it.
Data links and how they are used have moved on an awful lot on Herrick.
Not going into detail but the SK Mk7 Link fit and system is quite capable having worked with it in the not too distant past. Furthermore, it's product is far from niche and can often get right to the people that need it.
Data links and how they are used have moved on an awful lot on Herrick.
