Chinook - Still Hitting Back 2
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
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Excellent news, thank goodness common sense has prevailed. 
However, don't be surprised that MOD will still rebut the findings. There are big politics involved here, hence the original over-ruling of the board's verdict. <img src="frown.gif" border="0">
John Day should now keep to his promise to do the honourable thing. I have a sword he could borrow...
However, don't be surprised that MOD will still rebut the findings. There are big politics involved here, hence the original over-ruling of the board's verdict. <img src="frown.gif" border="0">
John Day should now keep to his promise to do the honourable thing. I have a sword he could borrow...
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Excellent news!
Congratulations to all involved.
The Sun (big yellow thingy, not the paper...) came out today in acknowledgement.
I shall be raising a glass this evening....
. .---------------------------. .Per Ardua Ad Veritas
Congratulations to all involved.
The Sun (big yellow thingy, not the paper...) came out today in acknowledgement.
I shall be raising a glass this evening....
. .---------------------------. .Per Ardua Ad Veritas
Join Date: May 2001
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Sadly, despite public statements, it seems that MoD still think they were negligent, HoL Report was rubbish, and that Wratten and Day were right.
Oh dear. I think the Govt will say they have to study carefully today, wait for the fuss to die down, and then in a couple of months or so, probably Easter Weekend, announce that there is no new evidence and nothing will change, the verdict will stand.
Sorry to cast such a dampener. I can only think that intervention from No.10 will get them to think otherwise. <img src="mad.gif" border="0">
Oh dear. I think the Govt will say they have to study carefully today, wait for the fuss to die down, and then in a couple of months or so, probably Easter Weekend, announce that there is no new evidence and nothing will change, the verdict will stand.
Sorry to cast such a dampener. I can only think that intervention from No.10 will get them to think otherwise. <img src="mad.gif" border="0">
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If the MOD had been responible at the start by installing a FDR & CVR this sorry saga would not have ended this way.
The House Of Lords have gone up in my estimation and irrespective of what the Governement/MOD decide Justice has finally been done of that there is no doubt whatsoever.
The House Of Lords have gone up in my estimation and irrespective of what the Governement/MOD decide Justice has finally been done of that there is no doubt whatsoever.
Join Date: Jun 2001
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TL Thou is not wrong, extract from BBC news about 30 minutes ago:
"The Government has said it needs time to consider a report exonerating the pilots of an RAF helicopter which crashed killing 29 people. . .Armed forces minister Adam Ingram said the report from a House of Lords all-party select committee did not appear to offer new evidence.
----------------------------------------------. .Mr Ingram said the Government needed time to consider the report but he did not seem ready to overturn the verdicts.
"It does seem to me on first reading that it is covering the same ground with the same information. There is no new evidence and no new facts," he said.
"There is an onus on us to give weight to the arguments that are advanced. We have to give consideration to them."
The Armed Forces minister said that the report came to a different conclusion than the senior RAF officers.
------------------------------------------------. .The MoD made a limited comment on the findings which were published on Tuesday.
A spokesman said: "It is a complex issue and we will study the report in detail and make a response."
--------------------------------------------. .And the defence secretary at the time of the crash ,Sir Malcolm Rifkind, has urged on the government and the MoD to act on the House of Lords report.
Sir Malcolm, who has welcomed the findings, says the initial ruling accusing the pilots of gross negligence could no longer be sustained."
"The Government has said it needs time to consider a report exonerating the pilots of an RAF helicopter which crashed killing 29 people. . .Armed forces minister Adam Ingram said the report from a House of Lords all-party select committee did not appear to offer new evidence.
----------------------------------------------. .Mr Ingram said the Government needed time to consider the report but he did not seem ready to overturn the verdicts.
"It does seem to me on first reading that it is covering the same ground with the same information. There is no new evidence and no new facts," he said.
"There is an onus on us to give weight to the arguments that are advanced. We have to give consideration to them."
The Armed Forces minister said that the report came to a different conclusion than the senior RAF officers.
------------------------------------------------. .The MoD made a limited comment on the findings which were published on Tuesday.
A spokesman said: "It is a complex issue and we will study the report in detail and make a response."
--------------------------------------------. .And the defence secretary at the time of the crash ,Sir Malcolm Rifkind, has urged on the government and the MoD to act on the House of Lords report.
Sir Malcolm, who has welcomed the findings, says the initial ruling accusing the pilots of gross negligence could no longer be sustained."
Excellent news, Brian! Let's hope that the final conclusion to this sad affair will be equally favourable! Justice has no time limit!!
Shall be listening out for the crack of the mess Webley coming from the Cheltenham direction.......
Shall be listening out for the crack of the mess Webley coming from the Cheltenham direction.......
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Congratulations to all those who worked so hard and delight for the families.
Don't let Blair and his mates put a damper on the outcome. Paragraph 174 in the conclusion quoted earlier by Newswatcher
"In carrying out our terms of reference, we have considered the justification for the Air Marshals' finding of negligence against the pilots of ZD 576 against the applicable standard of proof, which required "absolutely no doubt whatsoever". In the light of all the evidence before us, and having regard to that standard, we unanimously conclude that the reviewing officers were not justified in finding that negligence on the part of the pilots caused the aircraft to crash." is very difficult for even the spin doctors in the government to wriggle out of.
Whatever sour grapes the Ministry of Defence have, the result is a conclusive victory both legal and moral and it whilst it would be nice for them to accept the findings everyone now knows where the truth lies.
Don't let Blair and his mates put a damper on the outcome. Paragraph 174 in the conclusion quoted earlier by Newswatcher
"In carrying out our terms of reference, we have considered the justification for the Air Marshals' finding of negligence against the pilots of ZD 576 against the applicable standard of proof, which required "absolutely no doubt whatsoever". In the light of all the evidence before us, and having regard to that standard, we unanimously conclude that the reviewing officers were not justified in finding that negligence on the part of the pilots caused the aircraft to crash." is very difficult for even the spin doctors in the government to wriggle out of.
Whatever sour grapes the Ministry of Defence have, the result is a conclusive victory both legal and moral and it whilst it would be nice for them to accept the findings everyone now knows where the truth lies.
Join Date: Jun 2000
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I would like to offer my most heart felt congratulations to all those . .involved in getting this travesty over turned, . .BLOODY WELL DONE !!.. .I was having a bad day today untill i heard the news, iv been smiling ever since.. .I shall be raising a glass to you all in the pub tonight.. .
Dear Mr Blair and relevant cronies,. .Go on, for once in your lives pull your heads out of your @rses - . .AND DO THE RIGHT THING.. . <img src="mad.gif" border="0">
[ 05 February 2002: Message edited by: Tir renrie ]</p>
Dear Mr Blair and relevant cronies,. .Go on, for once in your lives pull your heads out of your @rses - . .AND DO THE RIGHT THING.. . <img src="mad.gif" border="0">
[ 05 February 2002: Message edited by: Tir renrie ]</p>
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Wonderful news! This outcome will be difficult to ignore, but no doubt there are some who will try.
"In carrying out our terms of reference, we have considered the justification for the Air Marshals' finding of negligence against the pilots of ZD 576 against the applicable standard of proof, which required "absolutely no doubt whatsoever". In the light of all the evidence before us, and having regard to that standard, we unanimously conclude that the reviewing officers were not justified in finding that negligence on the part of the pilots caused the aircraft to crash." is very difficult for even the spin doctors in the government to wriggle out of.
This simple statement says its all. What a shame that it has taken almost 8 years and numerous additional inquires culminating in this HoL inquiry to reach what amounts to the same conclusion reached by the original BoI before their airships had their twopennorth!
Thank goodness for the House of Lords, how does Bliar and his cronies think that we can do without it. Be assured, without the HoL we wouldn’t be any further forward today than we were at any time in the last 8 years.
I too will raise a glass or two to the families, and to those who campaigned so tirelessly to achieve today’s outcome.
"In carrying out our terms of reference, we have considered the justification for the Air Marshals' finding of negligence against the pilots of ZD 576 against the applicable standard of proof, which required "absolutely no doubt whatsoever". In the light of all the evidence before us, and having regard to that standard, we unanimously conclude that the reviewing officers were not justified in finding that negligence on the part of the pilots caused the aircraft to crash." is very difficult for even the spin doctors in the government to wriggle out of.
This simple statement says its all. What a shame that it has taken almost 8 years and numerous additional inquires culminating in this HoL inquiry to reach what amounts to the same conclusion reached by the original BoI before their airships had their twopennorth!
Thank goodness for the House of Lords, how does Bliar and his cronies think that we can do without it. Be assured, without the HoL we wouldn’t be any further forward today than we were at any time in the last 8 years.
I too will raise a glass or two to the families, and to those who campaigned so tirelessly to achieve today’s outcome.
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On a note of amusement, fellow PPruners will have noticed that, with impeccable timing, dear old Buff Hoon is in Kabul today.
I dare say he was eager to get as far away as possible, given the roasting he was given when the PAC Report came out
Meanwhile the hapless Adam Ingot is taking the flak, fulfilling the role vacated by John "Medical Services" Spellar.
Cynical, moi? <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
I dare say he was eager to get as far away as possible, given the roasting he was given when the PAC Report came out
Meanwhile the hapless Adam Ingot is taking the flak, fulfilling the role vacated by John "Medical Services" Spellar.
Cynical, moi? <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
From the civil fraternity. Congratulations on pursuing the struggle to the bitter end.. .Congrats to the families most of all.. .Congrats to the remaining aircrew in the RAF who have had to live under this shadow for so long.
It's a shame you all still have to function under the auspices of two a*******s. May they slide ignominiously into early retirement soonest <img src="mad.gif" border="0"> <img src="mad.gif" border="0">
Party all round methinks.
It's a shame you all still have to function under the auspices of two a*******s. May they slide ignominiously into early retirement soonest <img src="mad.gif" border="0"> <img src="mad.gif" border="0">
Party all round methinks.