RAF Shawbury close to melt down
InTGReen,
If (under the present system) a QHI on 660 Squadron does not have to teach confined areas, what skill sets does he need to keep up during SCT?
A competence to do confined area flying himself, or a competence to instruct? And is it cost effective to retain the latter skill if it is not going to be used?
And while I can see that there will be a one off ‘hit’ in SCT requirements to get 660’s instructors qualified and current to teach the 705 ‘end’ of the syllabus (and vice versa) won’t there also be an ‘enduring’ impact on SCT? Won’t an instructor trained to teach the whole syllabus need more SCT than one trained to teach only a portion of that syllabus?
It may still be a good idea, of course, but I’m stretching to fully appreciate the implications.
You also said that: “it's physical training area that Shawbury is short of” – and clearly implied that there wasn’t spare capacity at Ternhill, either.
One wonders whether a squadron should not detach to South Cerney for a week at a time when congestion is a particular problem? Plenty of airspace, and a two hour road journey, mostly by motorway. No need to resurrect South Cerney as a ‘full-up’ OB, just with enough first line to support a small det.
Marly,
Why don’t the Navy (apart from SAR) use 60 (R)?
If (under the present system) a QHI on 660 Squadron does not have to teach confined areas, what skill sets does he need to keep up during SCT?
A competence to do confined area flying himself, or a competence to instruct? And is it cost effective to retain the latter skill if it is not going to be used?
And while I can see that there will be a one off ‘hit’ in SCT requirements to get 660’s instructors qualified and current to teach the 705 ‘end’ of the syllabus (and vice versa) won’t there also be an ‘enduring’ impact on SCT? Won’t an instructor trained to teach the whole syllabus need more SCT than one trained to teach only a portion of that syllabus?
It may still be a good idea, of course, but I’m stretching to fully appreciate the implications.
You also said that: “it's physical training area that Shawbury is short of” – and clearly implied that there wasn’t spare capacity at Ternhill, either.
One wonders whether a squadron should not detach to South Cerney for a week at a time when congestion is a particular problem? Plenty of airspace, and a two hour road journey, mostly by motorway. No need to resurrect South Cerney as a ‘full-up’ OB, just with enough first line to support a small det.
Marly,
Why don’t the Navy (apart from SAR) use 60 (R)?
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Jackinoko,
It is important for the Mil QHI's to keep their military flying skills as current as possible. As all Mil are aware, being short toured is always a possibility, so itwould be a shame for a QHI posted to any basic sqn to return to the front line without having at least tried to keep some of the rust at bay on his more advanced flying skills!
When I referred to the Shawbury training areas, I was referring to LFA 9 as a whole really. The mil would never be able to get a better or bigger area so don't get me wrong, but the area that we do have is close to capacity. It works at the moment because of close de-confliction between the squadrons. If all instructors are surged to one sortie profile, the available area Required for that particular sortie profile would possibly not be able to cope. This would limit the benifit of having more staff available to progress the students. As I said, this is a personal theory that could be a problem with the new system, however the extra flexibility may well bring other benifits. Time will tell.
It is important for the Mil QHI's to keep their military flying skills as current as possible. As all Mil are aware, being short toured is always a possibility, so itwould be a shame for a QHI posted to any basic sqn to return to the front line without having at least tried to keep some of the rust at bay on his more advanced flying skills!
When I referred to the Shawbury training areas, I was referring to LFA 9 as a whole really. The mil would never be able to get a better or bigger area so don't get me wrong, but the area that we do have is close to capacity. It works at the moment because of close de-confliction between the squadrons. If all instructors are surged to one sortie profile, the available area Required for that particular sortie profile would possibly not be able to cope. This would limit the benifit of having more staff available to progress the students. As I said, this is a personal theory that could be a problem with the new system, however the extra flexibility may well bring other benifits. Time will tell.
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In all my years, I was never that good. The first line of my 5000 read - Taylor is not a natural pilot 
If that was sarcasm then nice one, if it was a real insult then unlucky.
If that was sarcasm then nice one, if it was a real insult then unlucky.
InTGreen.
Fully understand that. But isn't there a difference between keeping your own competence to 'do' and maintaining a competence to 'teach'.
I'm confident that I'm safe to aerotow, but to do it from the back seat teaching a student to do so....?
So under the existing system does a 660 QHI need to be able to do all the exciting confined area himself, or to be able to teach that as well? Under the new system, he'll have to be competent to instruct in confined area ops, of course - and won't that have an ENDURING impact on SCT flying requirements?
EG: One might imagine that in the days of 'grading' a fixed wing instructor just needed competence to instruct in basic handling, circuits, and stalling, but would use SCT to remain personally competent in IF, GH, aerobatics, etc. as well. If he suddenly had to instruct in a full EFTS syllabus, he'd need to be competent to instruct in these areas, and that would require more SCT.
Fully understand that. But isn't there a difference between keeping your own competence to 'do' and maintaining a competence to 'teach'.
I'm confident that I'm safe to aerotow, but to do it from the back seat teaching a student to do so....?
So under the existing system does a 660 QHI need to be able to do all the exciting confined area himself, or to be able to teach that as well? Under the new system, he'll have to be competent to instruct in confined area ops, of course - and won't that have an ENDURING impact on SCT flying requirements?
EG: One might imagine that in the days of 'grading' a fixed wing instructor just needed competence to instruct in basic handling, circuits, and stalling, but would use SCT to remain personally competent in IF, GH, aerobatics, etc. as well. If he suddenly had to instruct in a full EFTS syllabus, he'd need to be competent to instruct in these areas, and that would require more SCT.
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I guess the answer to that is yes, and no. By the fact that all instructors will be teaching all the syllabus, they will be flying and demoing the skills to students regularly. At the moment 660 staff would ONLY do CA's during SCT, after the change, they would not need to SCT it as regularly as they would be flying that profile regularly enough with students.
Jacko - aint no big ting. It's exactly what 705 did at Culdrose, and 1 Sqn did at Shy before DHFS. There was never a problem with keeping current on the various exercises - they are all second nature to anyone after a tour or two. Jayteeto - you wern't that bad - seem to remember that I suggested you changed from rigger to pilot!
The guy copping the flack for these changes is a genuine bloke who cares a great deal.
Having taught at SHY, I can imagine a great deal of 'I don't like change' chatter doing the rounds amongst the staff, especially the civilians. I dont agree with the earlier comments about 'rest tours'. The work at SHY is hard and unrelenting, but different and stable. This seems to suit some people as once posted there for a rest tour, are never seen again outside LFA9.
The guys and gals of all services, or company, teaching at SHY do a tremendous job and provide a world class benchmark in helicopter flight training, but things can be done differently at SHY, and they can be done better. Give the changes time, and then if they clearly havent had the desired effect, they can be evaluated from a position of knowledge, instead of a half baked rant at the expense of a respected officer who is trying to make improvements.
Having taught at SHY, I can imagine a great deal of 'I don't like change' chatter doing the rounds amongst the staff, especially the civilians. I dont agree with the earlier comments about 'rest tours'. The work at SHY is hard and unrelenting, but different and stable. This seems to suit some people as once posted there for a rest tour, are never seen again outside LFA9.
The guys and gals of all services, or company, teaching at SHY do a tremendous job and provide a world class benchmark in helicopter flight training, but things can be done differently at SHY, and they can be done better. Give the changes time, and then if they clearly havent had the desired effect, they can be evaluated from a position of knowledge, instead of a half baked rant at the expense of a respected officer who is trying to make improvements.
wazz'n'zoom - I'm not convinced that most of the FBH chaps are looking to find other employment - most of them recognise a cushy number when they see it. If they want to go to the north sea, they're welcome, but they will probably find it far more demanding (plus they would need licences which they don't all have). Their working hours are (I would say) 'favourable' - I've been involved with civilian training organisations where the instructors (yes, I know they are less qualified, but they teach a similar syllabus) would have to work all day and most weekends to make the same sort of money (if they were lucky). I really do feel that some of them don't know when they are well off! As for the military QHIs - yes, it should be a bit of a rest break for them from the front line - can't see what they have to moan about. However, from my 'handle', you will know that I am older than most, so what do I know about it!
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jayteeto,
I had "******* is not a natural pilot" more than once. Someone once wrote about me: "Has a tendency to be slightly complacent in the air"!
Wonder who that could have been...
I had "******* is not a natural pilot" more than once. Someone once wrote about me: "Has a tendency to be slightly complacent in the air"!
Wonder who that could have been...
They must be desperate; they tried to get me back..and I'm useless!! Re the Scotsman..he wouldn't have got where he is without some talent - despite being held back for commenting on a certain young lady linies' shagability whilst she was on the long lead...whoooooops...bear in mind he shoots from the hip and shouts the loudest and you'll cope. He tried to kill me twice, but what the heck, I've been trying to do that for 20 years!
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On 18th Sept, Wazz n' Zoom said:
Details will be released on Monday morning via the Sqn Trg Offr/OC Sixty. FBH contract amendment/extra mil-civvy QHIs & QHCIs will be required to achieve the ambitious plans.
...or has a Pprune curfew been imposed? ...again.
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Surprise surprise managed to crash a squirrel today at Ternhill. Whilst I would definately never gloat and very happy no one injured apart from the aircraft. I think my opening point to this thread has been made. So what do you say now all you doubters out there.
Are you seriously suggesting that this accident is the result of the over-stretch and over-tasking that you described?
"Training helicopter crashes" sounds a bit "Dog bites man" otherwise.
I'm a journo, and I don't sniff much of a story here, tbh.
"Training helicopter crashes" sounds a bit "Dog bites man" otherwise.
I'm a journo, and I don't sniff much of a story here, tbh.
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Bluster are you suggesting that a recent incident is related to the re org at Shawbs, if you are and I must admit I know nothing about what happened, how so?
What was the outcome of the meeting on Monday for 60 Sqn's new sylabis, or did that not happen in the end.
What was the outcome of the meeting on Monday for 60 Sqn's new sylabis, or did that not happen in the end.
Surprise surprise managed to crash a squirrel today at Ternhill. Whilst I would definately never gloat and very happy no one injured apart from the aircraft. I think my opening point to this thread has been made. So what do you say now all you doubters out there.
what do you say now all you doubters out there