NO casualties. Chinook destroyed after hard landing
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Those who have read the incident signal will realise exactly why this aircraft was 'denied'. If you don't have access to such information then you probably don't need to.
West Coast - you're right. It is a nice pic and doesn't suggest that a recovery in this scenario was feasible. However, it does provide a response to an early question about the technical feasability of using ac such as the Mi-26 to carry a Chinook out of the area.
However, given the highly politicized, risk-adverse times we find ourselves in, it really is a moot point. We will always deny then enemy equipment rather than try to recover it because of the political implications of further losses incurred in any recovery operation.
However, given the highly politicized, risk-adverse times we find ourselves in, it really is a moot point. We will always deny then enemy equipment rather than try to recover it because of the political implications of further losses incurred in any recovery operation.
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YouTube - Last flight of the Skycrane 2
Forgetting the tactical 'what ifs', I wonder how much would have continued to have been saved if there was still this capability?
I concede that I don't know the facts and how precarious the extraction and indeed, whether there was anything worth saving, but in principle, I am sure that a ground action could have been at least considered if there was something able to be pulled off the shelf. Surely, with Apache overhead, and troops quickly on the ground, there would have been a limit to how Taleban/Mujahideen would have wanted to have been sucked into a potentially lucrative (for us) death trap.
My only hope (and I certainly don't intend to be double guessing those out on the ground) is that this doesn't become SOP because to do otherwise might be all a bit 'too dangerous'. Like I said, just a thought based on minimal info and I continue to take my hat off to those doing the job out there.
Forgetting the tactical 'what ifs', I wonder how much would have continued to have been saved if there was still this capability?
I concede that I don't know the facts and how precarious the extraction and indeed, whether there was anything worth saving, but in principle, I am sure that a ground action could have been at least considered if there was something able to be pulled off the shelf. Surely, with Apache overhead, and troops quickly on the ground, there would have been a limit to how Taleban/Mujahideen would have wanted to have been sucked into a potentially lucrative (for us) death trap.
My only hope (and I certainly don't intend to be double guessing those out on the ground) is that this doesn't become SOP because to do otherwise might be all a bit 'too dangerous'. Like I said, just a thought based on minimal info and I continue to take my hat off to those doing the job out there.
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Al R
The Tarhe's (CH 54's)are still flying, but are now civilian are are appearing daily on the news, putting out fires in the U.S.
As far as I am aware (based on paper/internet study, not actual experience) the Mi 26 is far more capable.
As far as I am aware (based on paper/internet study, not actual experience) the Mi 26 is far more capable.
Oh boy!
Mi26's are a very 'in demand' asset to have sitting around just incase a chinook needs picking up.
In order to lift a chinook, you need to do stuff to it (no need for details), which is rather time consuming, and probably best completed if not under contact, or even with the taliban within the area.
Heavy rotorcraft in the desert lack normal performance (hot n high) and kick up an almighty dustcloud, hardly ideal for underslinging another aircraft.
The chinook put down, and was blown up. Right decision under the circumstances - no ifs, buts or maybe's.
If it is such a valuable asset, then you need to elect a PM willing to buy more. Other than that, lets not turn a near miss into op certain death and lose another aicraft trying to rescue the first.
At the end of the day, aircraft are lost at war - look how many aircraft were lost during WWII, Vietnam and Korea. We were fortunate the crew were alright, it might have been a different story had we tried to tw@t around airlifting the frame from situ.
Mi26's are a very 'in demand' asset to have sitting around just incase a chinook needs picking up.
In order to lift a chinook, you need to do stuff to it (no need for details), which is rather time consuming, and probably best completed if not under contact, or even with the taliban within the area.
Heavy rotorcraft in the desert lack normal performance (hot n high) and kick up an almighty dustcloud, hardly ideal for underslinging another aircraft.
The chinook put down, and was blown up. Right decision under the circumstances - no ifs, buts or maybe's.
If it is such a valuable asset, then you need to elect a PM willing to buy more. Other than that, lets not turn a near miss into op certain death and lose another aicraft trying to rescue the first.
At the end of the day, aircraft are lost at war - look how many aircraft were lost during WWII, Vietnam and Korea. We were fortunate the crew were alright, it might have been a different story had we tried to tw@t around airlifting the frame from situ.
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Thanks Barnstormer (I understand there is a 747 drencher.. 
)
I'm not saying it was the wrong thing to have done MGD, I don't know the facts. I just hope that if we do have to destroy anything we leave lying around, we also extract suitable recompense at the point of sale. I'd be interested to know though, if timings were that critical that we couldn't at least deploy troops quickly to retake/secure the ground as we did for XV230, and then support them with air and recover slow time.
Not second guessing, just curious and glad the troops got out ok.
)I'm not saying it was the wrong thing to have done MGD, I don't know the facts. I just hope that if we do have to destroy anything we leave lying around, we also extract suitable recompense at the point of sale. I'd be interested to know though, if timings were that critical that we couldn't at least deploy troops quickly to retake/secure the ground as we did for XV230, and then support them with air and recover slow time.
Not second guessing, just curious and glad the troops got out ok.
Understand that perfectly Al.
As a taxpayer, you have a right to know why we blew something costing a lot of money up. From the little I know, a cordon didnt sound like an option.
As a taxpayer, you have a right to know why we blew something costing a lot of money up. From the little I know, a cordon didnt sound like an option.
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Could some sporting soul recover a large piece of Chinook wreckage and return it to the UK?
I am sure I could find the perfect home for it.
Delivered (stealthily) overnight it could sit here ... The Fourth Plinth ... as a memorial and a reminder to expedite procurement.
It could be removed when equipment levels are at mutually acceptable levels.
I am sure I could find the perfect home for it.
Delivered (stealthily) overnight it could sit here ... The Fourth Plinth ... as a memorial and a reminder to expedite procurement.
It could be removed when equipment levels are at mutually acceptable levels.
Last edited by Been Accounting; 24th Oct 2009 at 13:53.
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Minigundiplomat
Thanks Minigundiplomat.
Originally by MGD
The chinook put down, and was blown up. Right decision under the circumstances - no ifs, buts or maybe's.
If it is such a valuable asset, then you need to elect a PM willing to buy more. Other than that, lets not turn a near miss into op certain death and lose another aicraft trying to rescue the first.
At the end of the day, aircraft are lost at war - look how many aircraft were lost during WWII, Vietnam and Korea. We were fortunate the crew were alright, it might have been a different story had we tried to tw@t around airlifting the frame from situ.hanks for your post
I have just given myself a good talking too (for falling into the we must save everything at all costs theory). I think we need really need leaders (is that the right word) who will buy enough kit (as you, me and many others keep saying), rather than trying to scrape by with too few, and resorting to buying second hand gear, or making cut and shut chinooks (yes I do know it wasn't quite like that).
Originally by MGD
The chinook put down, and was blown up. Right decision under the circumstances - no ifs, buts or maybe's.
If it is such a valuable asset, then you need to elect a PM willing to buy more. Other than that, lets not turn a near miss into op certain death and lose another aicraft trying to rescue the first.
At the end of the day, aircraft are lost at war - look how many aircraft were lost during WWII, Vietnam and Korea. We were fortunate the crew were alright, it might have been a different story had we tried to tw@t around airlifting the frame from situ.hanks for your post
I have just given myself a good talking too (for falling into the we must save everything at all costs theory). I think we need really need leaders (is that the right word) who will buy enough kit (as you, me and many others keep saying), rather than trying to scrape by with too few, and resorting to buying second hand gear, or making cut and shut chinooks (yes I do know it wasn't quite like that).
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Well it can be done. Good job all round !!!
Ministry of Defence | Defence News | Military Operations | 3 SCOTS thwart Taliban to recover US Chinook
Ministry of Defence | Defence News | Military Operations | 3 SCOTS thwart Taliban to recover US Chinook
Red On, Green On
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Major Matt Munro, Officer Commanding Alpha (Grenadier) Company, said:
"I'm delighted that this operation went so well.
)
