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Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Muscat, Oman
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Having flown Hunter, Lightning (last serving pilot to do so I'm told) and F3, the F3 only came good after I left it. The Hunter was great fun, but the Lightning more so. When the F3 (F2 originally) came into service, it's greatest capabilities were that it was very quiet and it stopped really well - not the most desirable of traits in a fighter (almost forgot the full and comprehensive ECM suite, comparable with any modern day fighter).
The Lightning was never developed in the RAF. In Saudi and Kuwait it could carry SNEB (forerunner of CRV-7) and bombs, plus the dreaded antiquated AAMs of the time. When we brought them back from Saudi, they were offered in 4 x AIM-9 fit to anyone who was interested. If we had that capability when the Lightning was in Service, maybe we wouldn't have said Lightning as the preferred choice in peacetime, F-4 for war!
Regarding the short range of the Lightning, most sorties were around an hour, some a bit more, some a bit less; not that different from Harrier and Jag at the time. Did a PD from Binbrook to Gutersloh and back with a few circuits to "shine my arse" before the vertical departure; and did a couple of 7-8 hour QRA launches, admittedly with a lot of AAR, but that was what it was there for.
Regarding the vertical shot of the F-3s, nice pic - what height was it taken? I've only ever been "VFR on top" in a Lightning!
The Lightning was never developed in the RAF. In Saudi and Kuwait it could carry SNEB (forerunner of CRV-7) and bombs, plus the dreaded antiquated AAMs of the time. When we brought them back from Saudi, they were offered in 4 x AIM-9 fit to anyone who was interested. If we had that capability when the Lightning was in Service, maybe we wouldn't have said Lightning as the preferred choice in peacetime, F-4 for war!
Regarding the short range of the Lightning, most sorties were around an hour, some a bit more, some a bit less; not that different from Harrier and Jag at the time. Did a PD from Binbrook to Gutersloh and back with a few circuits to "shine my arse" before the vertical departure; and did a couple of 7-8 hour QRA launches, admittedly with a lot of AAR, but that was what it was there for.
Regarding the vertical shot of the F-3s, nice pic - what height was it taken? I've only ever been "VFR on top" in a Lightning!
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Dartmouth, Devon U.K.
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"Sorry petermcleland - I misread the name on the side. I was in Bahrein from 68 to 71, so a bit after your time on 208."
Oh yes...XE609 "E" had burned to death at Khormaksar sometime before then, about 1966 I think. I was "tourex" in the middle of the Kuwait fracas in 1961 and came home in August and my last flight in XE609 was 3rd Aug 61 on "Aerobatics, Ahmadi, Magwa area".
Oh yes...XE609 "E" had burned to death at Khormaksar sometime before then, about 1966 I think. I was "tourex" in the middle of the Kuwait fracas in 1961 and came home in August and my last flight in XE609 was 3rd Aug 61 on "Aerobatics, Ahmadi, Magwa area".
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
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petermcleland , who was it bent "Juliet's" leg at Embakasi? I was there!
Was the Javelin really, really a fighter? Wasn't it restricted on some aerobatics?
Was the Javelin really, really a fighter? Wasn't it restricted on some aerobatics?
Good morning B Word.
Didn't you do well!
We used to get good time out of the F3 (Lightning that is) by shutting one down at low level. Still good for 550+ on one in dry power.
I take it that the Frightening is still winning....
LM
Didn't you do well!
We used to get good time out of the F3 (Lightning that is) by shutting one down at low level. Still good for 550+ on one in dry power.
I take it that the Frightening is still winning....
LM
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I confess to not reading the question properly but it is clear I am not alone. As far as I am aware, the SHAR was never in the RAF inventory 
However when it comes to willy waving - which was more opertational etc:
The Javelin of course did sterling service in homeland defence but was also deployed to Zambia in case Rhodesia got too upity and also to Malaysia in case Sukarrno did likewise. The Hunter was deployed to Cyprus in the fighter role together with Meteor NF14 and later to Gibraltar in the AD role as was the F4 a decade later. True the Hunter was also employed in Aden but in the GA role and the Lightning to the Far East but after the event.
This would appear to put the Javelin ahead of the Lightning on the operational stakes.
However when it comes to willy waving - which was more opertational etc:
The Javelin of course did sterling service in homeland defence but was also deployed to Zambia in case Rhodesia got too upity and also to Malaysia in case Sukarrno did likewise. The Hunter was deployed to Cyprus in the fighter role together with Meteor NF14 and later to Gibraltar in the AD role as was the F4 a decade later. True the Hunter was also employed in Aden but in the GA role and the Lightning to the Far East but after the event.
This would appear to put the Javelin ahead of the Lightning on the operational stakes.
Originally Posted by Ali Barber
Having flown Hunter, Lightning (last serving pilot to do so I'm told) and F3, the F3 only came good after I left it.
Unless of course we are talking about a certain sortie from Warton towards the end of 1992
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Wader2
Lightnings were also deployed to Cyprus, (Akrotiri) in '64, to calm down the Turkish Air Force.
The Turks beat up Limassol with F-100's, by the time the Javelins from Nicosia were scrambled, the F-100's were back in Turkey.
Within 1 week, 111Sqdn arrived at Akrotiri.
Lightnings were also deployed to Cyprus, (Akrotiri) in '64, to calm down the Turkish Air Force.
The Turks beat up Limassol with F-100's, by the time the Javelins from Nicosia were scrambled, the F-100's were back in Turkey.
Within 1 week, 111Sqdn arrived at Akrotiri.
Ali B, last serving person to fly the Lightning, not so I'm afraid.
I know of 2 pilots who flew the beast, maybe not in what you might term the main stream RAF but both still commissioned and fully paid by the Service. Both started their first tours in 69/70 and one is still flying to this day.
Anyway, the Lightning gets my vote any day!
I know of 2 pilots who flew the beast, maybe not in what you might term the main stream RAF but both still commissioned and fully paid by the Service. Both started their first tours in 69/70 and one is still flying to this day.
Anyway, the Lightning gets my vote any day!
Ali Barber
Not so Sir, there is of course you in Muscat (I worked out you must be the chap who was on the Big Breakfast many years ago ), but there is also the Boss of the Low Flying Cell (the one that has seen it, done it, ticked it off ). The only other guy I know retired as a 1star last year. Then there are the Air Marshals that never retire at all!!!
The B Word
last serving pilot to do so I'm told
), but there is also the Boss of the Low Flying Cell (the one that has seen it, done it, ticked it off ). The only other guy I know retired as a 1star last year. Then there are the Air Marshals that never retire at all!!!The B Word
there is also the Boss of the Low Flying Cell (the one that has seen it, done it, ticked it off ). The only other guy I know retired as a 1star last year. Then there are the Air Marshals that never retire at all!!!
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Hunter thrashing Lightning in the vote
This is just to say thanks so much for all your discussion and votes over the past week, it's been great to read your comments.
It's been incredible to see the Hunter come back in this poll.
Originally the Lightning was a good fifty votes ahead, then suddenly, having consulted Pprune, we saw an enormous surge in votes for the Hunter, leaving it 54 votes ahead of the Lightning.
Perhaps the biggest fight left now is now for third place, with the Phantom, Tornado and Harrier all slugging it out.
We've been surprised by the lack of votes for the Gloster Meteor - thought this would pick up some votes by virtue of being the allies' first operational jet fighter? Obviously outclassed by Mig15 and F86 Sabre in Korea, but should that count against it?
We're going to run the poll until September 7th, when we will release the final results, so please do get your vote cast if you haven't already, by visiting:
www.rafbf90.org.uk
Once again, thanks for all your comments.
It's been incredible to see the Hunter come back in this poll.
Originally the Lightning was a good fifty votes ahead, then suddenly, having consulted Pprune, we saw an enormous surge in votes for the Hunter, leaving it 54 votes ahead of the Lightning.
Perhaps the biggest fight left now is now for third place, with the Phantom, Tornado and Harrier all slugging it out.
We've been surprised by the lack of votes for the Gloster Meteor - thought this would pick up some votes by virtue of being the allies' first operational jet fighter? Obviously outclassed by Mig15 and F86 Sabre in Korea, but should that count against it?
We're going to run the poll until September 7th, when we will release the final results, so please do get your vote cast if you haven't already, by visiting:
www.rafbf90.org.uk
Once again, thanks for all your comments.
Join Date: Apr 2007
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"petermcleland , who was it bent "Juliet's" leg at Embakasi? I was there!"
Hey Samuel, you will have to explain that one...I flew "Juliet" XF376 a few times at Stradishall in UK before we flew the FGA9s out to Nairobi, but my logbook does not show a flight in "J" in Kenya at all!!???
Hey Samuel, you will have to explain that one...I flew "Juliet" XF376 a few times at Stradishall in UK before we flew the FGA9s out to Nairobi, but my logbook does not show a flight in "J" in Kenya at all!!???
Join Date: Jan 2001
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Err...Peter, I didn't mean to suggest it was you!
Juliet hit a landing light at Embakasi on landing, causing minor damage to the starboard undercarriage leg. Late 1960-ish? I have an excellent model made by my son of that aircraft, which later became part of 208/8 at Khormaksar and, I heard, was still flying in private hands in the UK. Off topic, I know...sorry!
I've never met anyone who disliked the Hunter in any way! The FGA9 in New Zealand is airworthy, but doesn't fly due to costs/lack of sponsorship
Juliet hit a landing light at Embakasi on landing, causing minor damage to the starboard undercarriage leg. Late 1960-ish? I have an excellent model made by my son of that aircraft, which later became part of 208/8 at Khormaksar and, I heard, was still flying in private hands in the UK. Off topic, I know...sorry!
I've never met anyone who disliked the Hunter in any way! The FGA9 in New Zealand is airworthy, but doesn't fly due to costs/lack of sponsorship
Back to the top...
I've also noted that the standings are Hunter 1st, Lightning 2nd, Tornado 3rd
, Phantom (Jehovah!) 4th, Harrier 5th, Meteor 6th, Vampire 7th and Hawk 8th.
When it comes to Harrier I guess they mean Sea Harrier (SHAR) - not in RAF service? Furthermore, for the Hawk, I guess they mean the Hawk 200 single seater with an air-air radar - not in RAF service?
Surprised about the "meatbox" though - it was in service during WWII in 1944 recording its 1st kills against V1s on 4 Aug 1944. So I don't see why it is in a poll for "post-war fighter" jets in the first place (and the Harrier and Hawk!)?
Anyway, plenty more voting to be done before 7 Sep 09 - come on you lot, get clicking!
The B Word
I've also noted that the standings are Hunter 1st, Lightning 2nd, Tornado 3rd
, Phantom (Jehovah!) 4th, Harrier 5th, Meteor 6th, Vampire 7th and Hawk 8th.When it comes to Harrier I guess they mean Sea Harrier (SHAR) - not in RAF service? Furthermore, for the Hawk, I guess they mean the Hawk 200 single seater with an air-air radar - not in RAF service?
Surprised about the "meatbox" though - it was in service during WWII in 1944 recording its 1st kills against V1s on 4 Aug 1944. So I don't see why it is in a poll for "post-war fighter" jets in the first place (and the Harrier and Hawk!)?
Anyway, plenty more voting to be done before 7 Sep 09 - come on you lot, get clicking!
The B Word
Guys
Might I suggest that there are more ex Hunter pilots around then ex Lighning pilots. Therefore, the poll results may be suspect!
For me the Hunter was OK but it was only supersonic in a dive with the flaps down! The Lightning could do it with the airbrakes extended in level flight!
No contest!
Might I suggest that there are more ex Hunter pilots around then ex Lighning pilots. Therefore, the poll results may be suspect!
For me the Hunter was OK but it was only supersonic in a dive with the flaps down! The Lightning could do it with the airbrakes extended in level flight!
No contest!
Lightning v Hunter
Might I suggest that there are more ex Hunter pilots around then ex Lighning pilots. Therefore, the poll results may be suspect!
The F4, although extremely capable, was certainly not endearing and felt cumbersome compared to the Hunter and Lightning. Moreover the cockpit visibilty was not great. As for the F3, I found it bland in the extreme.
Now the Gnat with guns......