Sale - 40x Typhoon - unwanted gift
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Jacko,
Thanks for the confirmation of the numbers merry-go-round. I assume that the 48 additional Saudi aircraft are in fact additional and will be built ("built" presumably being a malleable concept) in Saudi.
Out of interest are the Saudi jets CKD? Or are the Saudis actually gaining the indigenous capacity to bang out Typhoon unsupported? And out of interest, are the 48 going to be T2 or T3A build?
And where would further export aircraft be built? Of Oman, Japan Brazil and India? Presumably only the Omanis would not undertake domestic production - and if the Saudis were building them on their doorstep, does the deal allow for any Omani purchase to come from Saudi?
But would be a little surprised if they go below six frontline Sqns (plus 17(R) and 29(R)) - three at each.
S41
Thanks for the confirmation of the numbers merry-go-round. I assume that the 48 additional Saudi aircraft are in fact additional and will be built ("built" presumably being a malleable concept) in Saudi.
Out of interest are the Saudi jets CKD? Or are the Saudis actually gaining the indigenous capacity to bang out Typhoon unsupported? And out of interest, are the 48 going to be T2 or T3A build?
And where would further export aircraft be built? Of Oman, Japan Brazil and India? Presumably only the Omanis would not undertake domestic production - and if the Saudis were building them on their doorstep, does the deal allow for any Omani purchase to come from Saudi?
But would be a little surprised if they go below six frontline Sqns (plus 17(R) and 29(R)) - three at each.
S41
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Archimedes
Torpy was instrumental in getting Typhoon into service and was also heavily involved in the final numbers ordered, they are the facts.
It's not that I don't like Torpy full stop. I used to admire the guy greatly and he was (is) an excellent pilot. Unfortunately he has failed to display anny of the leadership skills that I believe are needed by a CAS. He has constantly refused to stand up to the government on anything - including the cuts to his own beloved Typhoon fleet!
His performance, leadership and personal qualities following the loss of the Nimrod were, frankly, appalling. For the CAS to say that Nimrod was 'as safe as it needs to be' shows a distinct lack of understanding of the fleet and an arrogance that beggars belief.
His only 'claim to fame' is the introduction of Typhoon into service. It's a shame that the so-called head of UK Air Power didn't forsee the need for so many other assets, other than his own personal little toy!! I do agree with you that the money saved will not find it's way into more SH or AT. I suspect that it will go towards supporting asylum seekers, refugees and if there is anything left, we'll send it out as foreign aid!
I'm delighted he has gone. The head of the RAF needs to be a leader, not a poodle.
Winco
Torpy was instrumental in getting Typhoon into service and was also heavily involved in the final numbers ordered, they are the facts.
It's not that I don't like Torpy full stop. I used to admire the guy greatly and he was (is) an excellent pilot. Unfortunately he has failed to display anny of the leadership skills that I believe are needed by a CAS. He has constantly refused to stand up to the government on anything - including the cuts to his own beloved Typhoon fleet!
His performance, leadership and personal qualities following the loss of the Nimrod were, frankly, appalling. For the CAS to say that Nimrod was 'as safe as it needs to be' shows a distinct lack of understanding of the fleet and an arrogance that beggars belief.
His only 'claim to fame' is the introduction of Typhoon into service. It's a shame that the so-called head of UK Air Power didn't forsee the need for so many other assets, other than his own personal little toy!! I do agree with you that the money saved will not find it's way into more SH or AT. I suspect that it will go towards supporting asylum seekers, refugees and if there is anything left, we'll send it out as foreign aid!
I'm delighted he has gone. The head of the RAF needs to be a leader, not a poodle.
Winco
I've given up trying to work out how many Typhoons we're supposed to be getting - working out the various tranche permutations is worse trying to do the individual problem solving exercise at OASC!
However, I was wondering - are the earlier versions being progressively upgraded as each new tranche comes into service i.e. T1 upgraded to T2, T2 to T3 etc so that we will eventually have a common fleet? Or will we just muddle along like we have with the GR4s and their ahem 'Diamond' fleet and all the headaches that causes?
However, I was wondering - are the earlier versions being progressively upgraded as each new tranche comes into service i.e. T1 upgraded to T2, T2 to T3 etc so that we will eventually have a common fleet? Or will we just muddle along like we have with the GR4s and their ahem 'Diamond' fleet and all the headaches that causes?
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PMSL well no actually, wanna see some real spin?
BBC NEWS | UK | UK Politics | Ministers hail jet-fighter deal
BBC NEWS | UK | UK Politics | Ministers hail jet-fighter deal
Navaleye,
Good point, well made. The beauty of being "in" the F35 club is, much like the F16, it is a club that will be churning out aircraft and updates for the next 20-25 years. Whether the FJ world like it or not, they are not the priority in a real fighting war happening today. However, the F-35 option will give us an ability, in future years, to re-assess priorities and, if necessary, increase the number of FJ squadrons.
Yes, I know, we might get caught short. But the FJ mafia running the RAF have totally failed to anticipate the need for SH/AT to fight the war we're fighting now. Perhaps the RW mafia in charge in 10 years time will play a similarly fast and loose game with priorities?
The sad thing is that, as the RW force is finding now, you can't simply generate pilots thanks to the "economy" of contractorising the flying training system.
Good point, well made. The beauty of being "in" the F35 club is, much like the F16, it is a club that will be churning out aircraft and updates for the next 20-25 years. Whether the FJ world like it or not, they are not the priority in a real fighting war happening today. However, the F-35 option will give us an ability, in future years, to re-assess priorities and, if necessary, increase the number of FJ squadrons.
Yes, I know, we might get caught short. But the FJ mafia running the RAF have totally failed to anticipate the need for SH/AT to fight the war we're fighting now. Perhaps the RW mafia in charge in 10 years time will play a similarly fast and loose game with priorities?
The sad thing is that, as the RW force is finding now, you can't simply generate pilots thanks to the "economy" of contractorising the flying training system.
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"But the FJ mafia running the RAF have totally failed to anticipate the need for SH/AT"
The purse strings for ALL SH are held by land, its got bugger all to do with the FJ mafia
but hey lets not get the facts get in the way of a good rant
The purse strings for ALL SH are held by land, its got bugger all to do with the FJ mafia
but hey lets not get the facts get in the way of a good rant
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In this climate of budget cuts, as we're seeing with the Eurofighter, I'm wondering what the knock on effect will be for the F35 program. Surely there will see a drop in the actual numbers of aircraft being ordered - but that is purely speculation.
Along with the funding for upgrades to the Pegasus Engines on the Harriers, which I read somewhere else, is expected to give them a service life till about 2018. Which leaves my mind in a bit of doubt
Ministry of Defence | Defence News | Equipment and Logistics | Harriers power up with new contract
Along with the funding for upgrades to the Pegasus Engines on the Harriers, which I read somewhere else, is expected to give them a service life till about 2018. Which leaves my mind in a bit of doubt
Ministry of Defence | Defence News | Equipment and Logistics | Harriers power up with new contract
Tim. Your wish should be fulfilled at 1200 today! The new CNS and CAS are already talking.
What joy! Good riddance to bad rubbish.
Now, now, Tim! That's no way to talk about Admiral Sir Jonathon Band .....
More seriously, and as I believe may have been mentioned elsewhere, it seems somewhat curious that all three Service chiefs are changing over in such a short timescale
Jack
What joy! Good riddance to bad rubbish.
Now, now, Tim! That's no way to talk about Admiral Sir Jonathon Band .....
More seriously, and as I believe may have been mentioned elsewhere, it seems somewhat curious that all three Service chiefs are changing over in such a short timescale
Jack
Knowitall,
Yes, Army RP pay the running costs for SH, but the RAF still mans the SH force with crews and maintainers. How about the AT force though? Who's taken the combat attrition the past few years?
Tim,
Agreed - if we intend to withdraw from F-35 then we're bu**ered. But then so is the CVF programme. IMHO better to "drip feed" F-35 over multi-years to spread the "wedge" of capital spend and gain access to later block numbers, with a ramp up if the strategic outlook changes (time permitting....)
Yes, Army RP pay the running costs for SH, but the RAF still mans the SH force with crews and maintainers. How about the AT force though? Who's taken the combat attrition the past few years?
Tim,
Agreed - if we intend to withdraw from F-35 then we're bu**ered. But then so is the CVF programme. IMHO better to "drip feed" F-35 over multi-years to spread the "wedge" of capital spend and gain access to later block numbers, with a ramp up if the strategic outlook changes (time permitting....)
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Typhoon
Seems to me many of you think that cutting Typhoon numbers allows money to go somewhere else. What money? C17, Typhoon, New helicopter all cut. All old frames extended until they fall out of the sky. And when the Tories get in there will be more. And if you really think we can afford JSF, forget it!
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navibrator
What money? C17, Typhoon, New helicopter all cut.
What money? C17, Typhoon, New helicopter all cut.
No doubt some of the money will be redirected outside of the MoD... But how could any politician overlook the chance to be seen to be adding to essential kit for our boys in Theatre....
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Hard to believe that so many posters here seem to be rejoicing at the reduction in total Typhoon numbers. Don't they realise that the money will not be used for other defence purposes but will go instead to one of the bottomless social pits of this government.
Their naivety is only surpassed by the stupidity of those who elected this government for a third term despite their track record.
Even if the money saved could be redeployed to meet today's needs in time to make any difference, it would still leave us wondering if we had the right balance for the future.
You might not like Torpy but he knows a hell of a lot better than you what he is doing.
Their naivety is only surpassed by the stupidity of those who elected this government for a third term despite their track record.
Even if the money saved could be redeployed to meet today's needs in time to make any difference, it would still leave us wondering if we had the right balance for the future.
You might not like Torpy but he knows a hell of a lot better than you what he is doing.
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You might not like Torpy but he knows a hell of a lot better than you what he is doing.
That's the funniest line I've heard all week.
Agreed - if we intend to withdraw from F-35 then we're bu**ered. But then so is the CVF programme
Agreed too! When you reach a stage when both Dianne Abbot and Michael Portillo both say that the carriers are unnecessary and unaffordable, it seems safe to assume they they'll get dumped. I'm starting to think that the political spin seems to be that by identifying the carriers as being an obvious choice for savings, the F-35 can be disposed-of by proxy, claiming that it is redundant without any carrier to operate from. Cynical I know but we're talking about British politics here.
That's the funniest line I've heard all week.
Agreed - if we intend to withdraw from F-35 then we're bu**ered. But then so is the CVF programme
Agreed too! When you reach a stage when both Dianne Abbot and Michael Portillo both say that the carriers are unnecessary and unaffordable, it seems safe to assume they they'll get dumped. I'm starting to think that the political spin seems to be that by identifying the carriers as being an obvious choice for savings, the F-35 can be disposed-of by proxy, claiming that it is redundant without any carrier to operate from. Cynical I know but we're talking about British politics here.