"2 RAF personnel killed in mid-air collision" today
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When I got the text from our CO my reaction was Oh god not again.
Such a tragedy for the families , the AEF and the Corps.
Wholigan I trust your judgement perhaps the AEF does need to scream and shout about visibility. In that comment I am not assuming anything about this Accident or the one we had in South Wales but perhaps it is something that does need to be addressed.
After our accident in No1 Welsh Wing we have seen no drop off in enthusiasm for flying or the numbers doing it, I hope that will continue to be the case for Oxfordshire.
RIP to our Colleagues, never forgotten .
Such a tragedy for the families , the AEF and the Corps.
Wholigan I trust your judgement perhaps the AEF does need to scream and shout about visibility. In that comment I am not assuming anything about this Accident or the one we had in South Wales but perhaps it is something that does need to be addressed.
After our accident in No1 Welsh Wing we have seen no drop off in enthusiasm for flying or the numbers doing it, I hope that will continue to be the case for Oxfordshire.
RIP to our Colleagues, never forgotten .
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Eventhough I have not flown for a number of years my first aircraft was as an Air Cadet when 10 AEF were flying Chipmunks and the UAS were on Bulldogs both of which were white and red with black and white props. I have seen the pictures posted of the current colour scheme of the Tutor and it being nearly all white does in my personal view pose a problem.I am an avid aviation enthusiast and even have problems seeing a white aircraft A320 size when they pass by my house 1 mile away at 2500ft on finals into MAN when the weather is totally clear but is hazy and evenmore so when the aircraft is near the hazy aura of the sun. I don't pretend to be an expert,but the colour of the aircraft must have some bearing on this.In a world where we see everyone wearing Hi-Viz jackets,etc so they can be clearly seen,yet we have training aircraft that given the right or wrong conditions as the case may be, could be nearly invisible and also taking into account the use of the busy airspace.
Let's let the AAIB do their job and publish their report and see what needs to be changed if needed.
I dearly hope that these accidents do not see the end of cadet flying. That put a bug in me that has stayed for over 40 years.
Condolences to the families and RIP to the instructor and cadet.
Let's let the AAIB do their job and publish their report and see what needs to be changed if needed.
I dearly hope that these accidents do not see the end of cadet flying. That put a bug in me that has stayed for over 40 years.
Condolences to the families and RIP to the instructor and cadet.
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I dearly hope that these accidents do not see the end of cadet flying.
The first accident was relatively straightforward to explain as a "one in a million event that is so unlikely to happen again that AEF flying is so inherently safe that you shouldn't really worry about the safety of your children in our charge".
Sadly, this latest accident - following on as closely as it did - makes that argument extremely difficult to justify to people who will now see our previous reassurances about the safety of their loved ones as "not to be trusted". All we can do is trust in the effectiveness of the investigations (and they will be the most thorough investigations that you could imagine) and, depending on the findings and recommendations, use our skills to build the bridges again to regain the confidence of those parents and - indeed - the cadets themselves.
Wholigan - wise words, I stood up and tried to reasure parents after the last one, as you did I'm sure. I fear that there may be a bit more scepticism this time.
Condolences to all involved
Ivor Fynn
Condolences to all involved
Ivor Fynn
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Sad News. RIP.
We tried very hard at Barkston to change our colour scheme to something more visible, and yellow/black is much better than basic white. The Tutor colour scheme was a mistake from the start.
All support to the AET and ATC. Keep up the good work.
Ray
We tried very hard at Barkston to change our colour scheme to something more visible, and yellow/black is much better than basic white. The Tutor colour scheme was a mistake from the start.
All support to the AET and ATC. Keep up the good work.
Ray
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This is a terrible tragedy, but must be set in context. All adventure involves some risk; those who provide the adventures young people need and thrive on - from parents to professionals - have the task of managing the risks.
The RAF operates 90+ Tutors, all flown by current or retired full time service pilots (the proportion of hours flown by solo students, eg UAS, is negligible). This must make them the largest, most experienced and most structured light aircrft operator in the UK, and it should follow that their incident rate should be the 'best in class' (by some considerable margin).
It would be interesting to see some benchmarking against the civilan GA community in incident rates per hour flown - not for inappropriate one-up-manship, but just to reassure parents and cadets that ACO is indeed discharging its greatest duty, ie safety.
I have every confidence that, of all the many admirable businesses and organisations through which a young person could enjoy a safe introduction to the wonderful world of flying, the research would show ACO to be safest of them all.
Like other posters, I am appalled by the loss of fellow fliers of any age or experience. I hope these two were having a ball, and send sincere condolences to their families, friends and AEF/squadron colleagues. Also I wish the glider pilot a speedy recovery from any injuries he sustained.
The RAF operates 90+ Tutors, all flown by current or retired full time service pilots (the proportion of hours flown by solo students, eg UAS, is negligible). This must make them the largest, most experienced and most structured light aircrft operator in the UK, and it should follow that their incident rate should be the 'best in class' (by some considerable margin).
It would be interesting to see some benchmarking against the civilan GA community in incident rates per hour flown - not for inappropriate one-up-manship, but just to reassure parents and cadets that ACO is indeed discharging its greatest duty, ie safety.
I have every confidence that, of all the many admirable businesses and organisations through which a young person could enjoy a safe introduction to the wonderful world of flying, the research would show ACO to be safest of them all.
Like other posters, I am appalled by the loss of fellow fliers of any age or experience. I hope these two were having a ball, and send sincere condolences to their families, friends and AEF/squadron colleagues. Also I wish the glider pilot a speedy recovery from any injuries he sustained.
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Had FLARM been fitted to both aircraft this tragic accident may not have happened. Those of us that have it fitted to our gliders have been very impressed with its performance and heads up warnings. The problem is that it is only fully effective if fitted to all aircraft.
It was very busy in that area yesterday.
R.I.P.
Thermick
It was very busy in that area yesterday.
R.I.P.
Thermick
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I was at an AEF yesterday afternoon with 5 first time flyers all kitted up and ready to walk out to the line and all aged 13 -16years. Our slots were cancelled beacuse the weather set in and we could not fly. I have asked for more slots and will ask for volunteers tonight and despite two crashes in recent months I have absolutely no doubt that there will quite a queue wanting a flight.
Yesterday will not dampen the enthiusiasm of these young people two of whom sat in full kit including parachutes for a hour waiting to fly and almost wetting themselves with excitement.
The drive home down the motorway was probably more dangerous than what we might have got up to in the Tutors. Likely I will have a full minibus heading to our local AEF next weekend with full parental support /permission and a bunch of very excited Cadets. My sympathies are quite clearly elsewhere.
Yesterday will not dampen the enthiusiasm of these young people two of whom sat in full kit including parachutes for a hour waiting to fly and almost wetting themselves with excitement.
The drive home down the motorway was probably more dangerous than what we might have got up to in the Tutors. Likely I will have a full minibus heading to our local AEF next weekend with full parental support /permission and a bunch of very excited Cadets. My sympathies are quite clearly elsewhere.
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We really need to stop painting aircraft white (standing by for the plastic aircraft brigade to say "we can't"), insist on strobes and consider high-tech solutions. Can't isn't good enough; it is time for industry, users and regulators to thrash this one out.
PS. Let's ensure that the kids still have the opportunity to fly.
PS. Let's ensure that the kids still have the opportunity to fly.
Red On, Green On
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Well one of the gutter press comics have already put the id of the Glider's owner out
Fincastle - I see that none of the news outlets are carrying that info. Have you been asked to release it by the family?
The glider registration was clear on the BBCi picture, and the CAA ownership database is open to all, so it was not hard to find who owned the glider
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Sadly Wholigan I fear you are right. After the previous incident I was able to reassure cadets & parents that it was a one in a million event and they shouldn't worry. I'm not sure what to tell them now.
Flying out of Benson this morning was a sober experience.
Tim
Flying out of Benson this morning was a sober experience.
Tim
Yes, Him
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Merely an observation. The Tutor has a broad canopy arch.
A local who saw the aircraft come down near Sutton Courtenay, Oxfordshire, later went to a police station to return a wallet belonging to the glider pilot - and saw him being interviewed by officers.
The man, who did not want to be named, said: "The pilot looked really shaken up. He said he was flying normally when a plane came from underneath him and clipped him. He immediately ejected and saw the plane nose-dive to the ground.
The man, who did not want to be named, said: "The pilot looked really shaken up. He said he was flying normally when a plane came from underneath him and clipped him. He immediately ejected and saw the plane nose-dive to the ground.
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By the way there are no gliding sites anywhere near* the crash site. So any speculation about mil ac infringing gliding sites is irrelevant.
Tim
*i.e. within 10 miles in any direction, not counting Abingdon which is a VGS and which is a known avoid for 6AEF.
Tim
*i.e. within 10 miles in any direction, not counting Abingdon which is a VGS and which is a known avoid for 6AEF.
PPRuNe Bashaholic
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Condolence messages can be placed on the following thread for those who wish to do so.
RAF Tutor / Glider Collision - Condolences Thread
This thread can be used to debate the issues and the factors which might have had a bearing on the accident, and which could affect all of us who fly.
For those who wish to wait for the AAIB report and not think about what might have happened till then, please turn the page.
RAF Tutor / Glider Collision - Condolences Thread
This thread can be used to debate the issues and the factors which might have had a bearing on the accident, and which could affect all of us who fly.
For those who wish to wait for the AAIB report and not think about what might have happened till then, please turn the page.
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Abingdon wasn't flying anyway. There was a motorsports carnival going on (which had it's own serious accident).
On the subject of colour, having flown out of Church Fenton in a Tutor in the summer, I found it very difficult to pick up the Firefly's against the dry grass through the haze even though I knew they were there.
On the subject of colour, having flown out of Church Fenton in a Tutor in the summer, I found it very difficult to pick up the Firefly's against the dry grass through the haze even though I knew they were there.