Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

Russian Overflights by RAF Crews during the "Cold War"

Wikiposts
Search
Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

Russian Overflights by RAF Crews during the "Cold War"

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 27th Jul 2017, 18:46
  #181 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Under a recently defunct flight path.
Age: 77
Posts: 1,375
Received 21 Likes on 13 Posts
Interesting obituary in The Times today.
Wing Commander Rex Sanders
Steely navigator on secret RAF missions over the Soviet Union in the 1950s
Lyneham Lad is offline  
Old 28th Jul 2017, 14:16
  #182 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Den Haag
Age: 57
Posts: 6,264
Received 336 Likes on 188 Posts
From the Orbit - surely the altitude is a typo?

The mission was conducted at night at an altitude of about 35,000ft and made extreme demands on Sanders, who was responsible for radar reconnaissance, photography and navigation. The flight plan zigzagged between 20 to 30 targets as they gathered information. Far beneath them the operation was monitored by US and British intelligence. On that occasion in April 1952 the crew got home without incident. When the operation was re-run in April 1954, Crampton and Sanders were detected as they flew over Kiev and Soviet gunners opened up. A meticulous operator who was regarded as super-cool under pressure, Sanders had seen plenty of flak during bombing missions in the Second World War and realised they were flying too high to be hit
212man is offline  
Old 28th Jul 2017, 19:00
  #183 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Often in Jersey, but mainly in the past.
Age: 79
Posts: 7,812
Received 137 Likes on 64 Posts
Wiki suggests "Service ceiling: 46,000 ft (14,020 m)"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_...n_B-45_Tornado

Perhaps the altitude was determined by sensor capability? Well within MiG-15 envelope, though, so I wonder why the "ramming option" was necessary.
MPN11 is offline  
Old 13th Mar 2018, 22:05
  #184 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 59°09N 002°38W (IATA: SOY, ICAO: EGER)
Age: 80
Posts: 812
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

The Oxcart story
ricardian is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2018, 15:37
  #185 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Threshold 06
Posts: 576
Received 25 Likes on 16 Posts
Wonderful. Thanks
oldmansquipper is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2018, 23:08
  #186 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 59°09N 002°38W (IATA: SOY, ICAO: EGER)
Age: 80
Posts: 812
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by oldmansquipper
Wonderful. Thanks
And here's another declassified document
The U-2 and OXCART programs 1954-74
ricardian is offline  
Old 8th Oct 2019, 10:13
  #187 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 59°09N 002°38W (IATA: SOY, ICAO: EGER)
Age: 80
Posts: 812
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
GAMBIT and HEXAGON recon satellites - lengthy history from the NRO
ricardian is offline  
Old 1st Nov 2019, 21:10
  #188 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: spring grove, PA, USA
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
USSR B50 USSR Overflights

Just noticed this Blog and want to mention that, in 1952, I was at RAF Lakenheath and Mildenhall with USAF B50 nuclear bombers doing overflights of the USSR.
flschaff is offline  
Old 3rd Jun 2020, 07:21
  #189 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Southern California
Age: 83
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Having just discovered this fascinating thread, can I just introduce a related topic to the main discussion? I have semi-circumstantial evidence that an RAF Canberra PR7 undertook photo reconnaissance on behalf of the CIA over Vietnam and possibly neighbouring countries in the mid-sixties, during the Vietnam War.
I was stationed at RAF Labuan, Borneo, for a short time in 1966 and while there as ground crew performed turn-rounds on a visiting Canberra PR7 that was painted matt black overall. After being refueled, the Canberra departed and very oddly did not return until the next day. Obviously, it must have landed somewhere else in the interim. This occurred a number of times while I served there. Several years later, as a civilian, I got into conversation with a former USAF serviceman who was seconded to the CIA’s “Air America” in the Vietnam area during that same period. While relating some of the exploits of Air America to me, he began to praise the RAF photo reconnaissance that assisted them, going on to describe how the Canberra, after taking the required photos, landed at one of their airfields where the ground crew unloaded the camera to retrieve the film before sending the Canberra on its way. At first I objected that Britain was not involved in that conflict and perhaps it was an Australian aircraft, but he insisted that it was definitely RAF. Then that it struck me that perhaps the Canberra I helped to turn round at Labuan was the same one that provided the recon service to the CIA in Vietnam. I am now researching this for a book of memoirs and would like to hear if anyone else knows anything about this.
Waddo Liney is offline  
Old 3rd Jun 2020, 07:31
  #190 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: London/Oxford/New York
Posts: 2,926
Received 139 Likes on 64 Posts
With all of the various US reconnaissance assets in Vietnam why on earth would the US seek the assistance of a foreign Canberra PR7? You sure this wasn't a B-57 variant?
pr00ne is offline  
Old 3rd Jun 2020, 08:19
  #191 (permalink)  
Green Flash
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
pr00ne, the US in Afghan seemed to regard the aircraft with somewhat mythical status and would ask for it by name ('can we have Canberra cover here or there'). Talking with the crews it seemed that the US didn't really have much to match the combination of platform, optics and operators. I know this was later than Vietnam but the aircraft appeared to be regarded with some reverence.
 
Old 3rd Jun 2020, 09:12
  #192 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 5,222
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 3 Posts
I was stationed at RAF Labuan, Borneo, for a short time in 1966
Maybe the Americans had seen the topographical maps of North Borneo that had been produced by flights by Canberras. We had to do all our flying around our operational area using these maps. They were fairly simple but accurate, predominately just rivers but in between the rivers were hills so that is how we got around.

When you went off their area to the old maps one would navigate by hashers for hills or letters, from R to M in Relief Data Incomplete.
Fareastdriver is offline  
Old 3rd Jun 2020, 19:42
  #193 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: -
Age: 54
Posts: 240
Received 12 Likes on 5 Posts
The USAF had B57s doing PR in Vietnam according to this video.They get mentioned from around 4m onwards
skydiver69 is offline  
Old 7th Jun 2020, 07:21
  #194 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Southern California
Age: 83
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
pr00ne, during one of the Canberra's visits, I recognized the pilot as someone I knew from a previous station where we had both served. He was definitely RAF. The aircraft was a Canberra PR7 because it featured the domed canopy, unlike the fighter canopy employed on the B57. The odd thing that fuels my theory is that on each of the occasions it visited, it returned again the next day, which it could only do if it landed somewhere else during the time it was absent from Labuan.
Waddo Liney is offline  
Old 7th Jun 2020, 09:07
  #195 (permalink)  
Gnome de PPRuNe
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Too close to Croydon for comfort
Age: 60
Posts: 12,635
Received 300 Likes on 168 Posts
RB-57A?

https://www.airliners.net/photo/USA-...erra/1553961/L
treadigraph is online now  
Old 7th Jun 2020, 09:26
  #196 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Just behind the back of beyond....
Posts: 4,185
Received 6 Likes on 4 Posts
Originally Posted by Waddo Liney
pr00ne, during one of the Canberra's visits, I recognized the pilot as someone I knew from a previous station where we had both served. He was definitely RAF. The aircraft was a Canberra PR7 because it featured the domed canopy, unlike the fighter canopy employed on the B57. The odd thing that fuels my theory is that on each of the occasions it visited, it returned again the next day, which it could only do if it landed somewhere else during the time it was absent from Labuan.
Do you remember his name? Or even which squadron he'd previously served with?
Jackonicko is online now  
Old 7th Jun 2020, 10:03
  #197 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: An Island Province
Posts: 1,257
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Photo, # 195, One of the few B-57A varients (8); B-57A 52-1459 Horeseheads NY
Later conversions to RB-57A for reconnaissance.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_B-57_Canberra

note other variants, roles, and operations.
alf5071h is offline  
Old 7th Jun 2020, 17:59
  #198 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Southern California
Age: 83
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Jackonicko
Do you remember his name? Or even which squadron he'd previously served with?
I feel that his name is in the back of my mind somewhere, but can't bring it to the surface, however, he was a flight instructor at Cranwell circa 1960. A Flt. Lt. then, but I seem to recall that he was a Sqdn. Ldr. when he turned up at Labuan. He and I had a brief chat reminiscing about our mutual time at "Cranners" and, in conversation, I casually asked him what he was doing. He replied to the effect that they "flew along the border and took some photos." Of course he didn't say which border, but since we were in Borneo, my assumption then was that he was referring to the Indonesian/Malaysian border on the mainland. Also assumed that he landed at Kuching on the mainland to stay overnight. But I question that now because why land there and stay overnight, yet return to Labuan to refuel and take a lengthy break in the officers' mess, when Kuching was only a hop, skip and a jump away from Labuan (by Canberra)?
Waddo Liney is offline  
Old 7th Jun 2020, 18:07
  #199 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Southern California
Age: 83
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by treadigraph
Yes, that looks a lot like the a/c I saw, but it didn't have all those markings. The markings were RAF and very subdued, also the black livery was matt. My thought is that if you land at a base where you're not supposed to be (i.e. Britain was officially not involved in the Vietnam war), it would be a good idea to make the aircraft as inconspicuous as possible to prying eyes. In the dark of night, a matt-black aircraft would be almost invisible.
Waddo Liney is offline  
Old 8th Jun 2020, 05:59
  #200 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Southern California
Age: 83
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by alf5071h
Photo, # 195, One of the few B-57A varients (8); B-57A 52-1459 Horeseheads NY
Later conversions to RB-57A for reconnaissance.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_B-57_Canberra
note other variants, roles, and operations.
I had read all of this previously, but thanks alf5071h for bringing it up. Have to admit that it seems contradictory, but I'm still left with the question as to the nature of "my" mysterious Canberra. Incidentally, the nearest Canberra PR7 squadron was 81 Sqdn based at Tengah and I originally thought it originated there, but I have been in touch with a number of former 81 Squadron member none of whom recall there being a black Canberra there.
Waddo Liney is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.