Nimrod MRA.4
Join Date: May 2007
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P7 the ac that never was
In 1987, (yes it goes back that far), the MR2 was in line for a mid life update. Alas the quote for the improvement was too much for MODPE and therefore they bought into the P7. All spending on the MR2 would cease as the P7 would be in service in the early 90's.
As for the P7, the only reason we are not flying the P7 now is that it didn't work. When Lockheed started to do some real sums it became apparent that the ac could not meet its spec. Unlike the UK the USN cancelled the project.
Part of the P7 program was a sensor suite known as update 4. The plan was to refit P3C's with this suite as a run up to the P7, to prove the concept. This was continued until the update 4 suite was proved not to work as promised and that too was cancelled.
With the P7 gone, the MOD was forced to go back to the drawing board and look at the replacement of the MR2 again. The result was the MRA4.
In line with many new ac, the MRA4 has the potential to outperform the MR2, but it will take several years to do so. Not just immature equipment but time for the crews to become competent with it. Thats a fact that only time will fix.
As for the P8, well it looks pretty and is a nice colour, sorry color.
As for the P7, the only reason we are not flying the P7 now is that it didn't work. When Lockheed started to do some real sums it became apparent that the ac could not meet its spec. Unlike the UK the USN cancelled the project.
Part of the P7 program was a sensor suite known as update 4. The plan was to refit P3C's with this suite as a run up to the P7, to prove the concept. This was continued until the update 4 suite was proved not to work as promised and that too was cancelled.
With the P7 gone, the MOD was forced to go back to the drawing board and look at the replacement of the MR2 again. The result was the MRA4.
In line with many new ac, the MRA4 has the potential to outperform the MR2, but it will take several years to do so. Not just immature equipment but time for the crews to become competent with it. Thats a fact that only time will fix.
As for the P8, well it looks pretty and is a nice colour, sorry color.
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Jacko,
I'm not familiar with the £155m / 6 MRA4s figures; but be careful in bewailing the National Audit Office (NAO). NAO is an auditing organisation - it reviews the decisions made by others, rather than making the decision in the first place - that's MoD's turf. So not quite sure why you're being cynical about the NAO.
To directly answer your question: no, at the moment, I don't think that the hand of BAES would be bitten off - it supposedly wasn't for the £100m to upgrade the three prototype MRA4s to join the operational fleet.
But look at Tuc's point: the MoD have consistently let BAES off the contract. Why? Why on earth would the customer sell itself out by letting a non-performing contractor out of their contract? If I were with a competitor, how pi$$ed off would I be that I lost a contract that was deliverable on price to one that has been a sink-hole for cash and which BAES have consistently run rings around the MoD for?
Perhaps those who would blame the Treasury for all of the MoD's problems would care to explain what happened here, then?
S41
I'm not familiar with the £155m / 6 MRA4s figures; but be careful in bewailing the National Audit Office (NAO). NAO is an auditing organisation - it reviews the decisions made by others, rather than making the decision in the first place - that's MoD's turf. So not quite sure why you're being cynical about the NAO.
To directly answer your question: no, at the moment, I don't think that the hand of BAES would be bitten off - it supposedly wasn't for the £100m to upgrade the three prototype MRA4s to join the operational fleet.
But look at Tuc's point: the MoD have consistently let BAES off the contract. Why? Why on earth would the customer sell itself out by letting a non-performing contractor out of their contract? If I were with a competitor, how pi$$ed off would I be that I lost a contract that was deliverable on price to one that has been a sink-hole for cash and which BAES have consistently run rings around the MoD for?
Perhaps those who would blame the Treasury for all of the MoD's problems would care to explain what happened here, then?
S41
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Don't be sad......
Grousehunter - don't be sad. The MR2 is a fantastic platform but not just because of the nuts and bolts. The way our crews fly it makes it the best in the world. The MRA4 together with those same crews will do so much more. Just give it a chance. The way it allows the whole crew access to all the sensor/tactical information is a good fit for the way Nimrods have always operated. You are wrong though, about work being handed over to the "specialists". From personal knowledge I can say with certainty that over the past ten years RAF and BAE aircrew have worked together in shaping the design and flight testing the aircraft. If anything the feeling from the RAF JTT lately has been that they don't get enough of the flying particularly since they decided (for good reasons) to ship themselves back to Kinloss. The bottom line for me is that whilst most of the commentators on PPrune have nuggets of truth in what they say about the trials and tribulations of the journey, we find ourselves now with an aeroplane about to be delivered to the people who have the ability to make it great.....Nimrod Aircrew.
I am sad about this project. The MR2 is a fantastic platform but it is being replaced with such an over ambitious replacement that we may end up with a real duffer unless more is done, and quickly. There are many working very very hard from all areas of the RAF on this project, but that does not seem to be replicated at the higher levels, or by BAE. Indeed much of the CONTRACTED work seems to be handed over to the "specialists" within the airforce. We're the customer! The timelines are getting shorter but the apathy continues.
I am sad about this project. The MR2 is a fantastic platform but it is being replaced with such an over ambitious replacement that we may end up with a real duffer unless more is done, and quickly. There are many working very very hard from all areas of the RAF on this project, but that does not seem to be replicated at the higher levels, or by BAE. Indeed much of the CONTRACTED work seems to be handed over to the "specialists" within the airforce. We're the customer! The timelines are getting shorter but the apathy continues.
Join Date: Aug 2009
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So is the ginger one from Girls Aloud.... in a sort of guilty pleasures way..... 
Mind you, if its meant to be a sub hunter, from that picture you'd get away with using a Bleriot monoplane rather than that overpriced re-winged, re-engined relic of the 1950s... A boomer, in open transit on the surface? Heaven forbid....
Mind you, if its meant to be a sub hunter, from that picture you'd get away with using a Bleriot monoplane rather than that overpriced re-winged, re-engined relic of the 1950s... A boomer, in open transit on the surface? Heaven forbid....
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Trying to Jinda, but this wretched browser wont let me zoom in any further. Not a Vanguard, I'll grant you that. Sail too long, aft of sail too short for missile tubes.
Not a Trafalgar, too wide.
Certainly not a Sov: Not Delta, Typhoon, Akula, etc...
Could be an Astute, I guess... does this mean we might see both at the same time?
Not the best ad for a sub thats meant to be able to go around the world without surfacing - hasnt even got through whats left of the North Sea oil fields yet...
Not a Trafalgar, too wide.
Certainly not a Sov: Not Delta, Typhoon, Akula, etc...
Could be an Astute, I guess... does this mean we might see both at the same time?
Not the best ad for a sub thats meant to be able to go around the world without surfacing - hasnt even got through whats left of the North Sea oil fields yet...
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Jabba
'Tis Astute - based on a recent photograph taken at Barrow submersion dock.
Cut me a little slack for artistic licence old chap! 
'Tis Astute - based on a recent photograph taken at Barrow submersion dock.
Not the best ad for a sub thats meant to be able to go around the world without surfacing - hasnt even got through whats left of the North Sea oil fields yet...
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Only a tad Jinda 
I just hope that considering they both cost the earth that when we do finally get our hands on them that they're bloody good. It would be a real choker to spend that much, wait that long and then find out none of them meet the objectives.
I just hope that considering they both cost the earth that when we do finally get our hands on them that they're bloody good. It would be a real choker to spend that much, wait that long and then find out none of them meet the objectives.
Join Date: Sep 2009
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The MRA4 will be a legend 
Just like the MR2 , Just give the aircraft some time , im 100% sure all people that work on new platforms will concur. If you judge something that you have not tried , thats the reason you never made it to ETPS.
Just like the MR2 , Just give the aircraft some time , im 100% sure all people that work on new platforms will concur. If you judge something that you have not tried , thats the reason you never made it to ETPS.
Join Date: Jun 2007
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Is that by any chance the same occasion when the photographs were found by the plods of her lying naked across the CO's desk receiving a fistfull of dollars? I remember it well.....(sigh).
She had photos taken throughout the camp, incuding the CO`s table and the torp ourtside the sqn. They would be real collectors items now, pity i gave them all away when over in Oz for the Fincastle that year.
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Samntha's photos
They were the promotional photos for the Fincastle in OZ in '84. Jacko arranged the venue & we all watched. Rumour has it that some one of senior rank got to home base in '90 when a similar shoot took place for Fincastle '90.
She really was amzing. She only just failed to satisfy an 'F' size buoy!
I have a full set of photos for anyone interested. I don't think they'll let me publish them on PPrune!
She really was amzing. She only just failed to satisfy an 'F' size buoy!
I have a full set of photos for anyone interested. I don't think they'll let me publish them on PPrune!
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Gotta be Astute. Only industry produces nice oil paintings of aircraft not yet in service and as they also produce Astute............
Question is whether this nice painting was presented to the RAF as a 'sorry the MRA4 is so late' gift or to the navy as a 'sorry Astute's so late' gift.
Question is whether this nice painting was presented to the RAF as a 'sorry the MRA4 is so late' gift or to the navy as a 'sorry Astute's so late' gift.
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Dare you
Fin 84
Go on post them(or PM to interested parties) it will bring back memories of a rather dingy lower level bar in the "Great" Western. Good times, and a much simpler time being guided on my career by dodgy geezers as a young "get the beers in sarge".
Charlie sends
Go on post them(or PM to interested parties
) it will bring back memories of a rather dingy lower level bar in the "Great" Western. Good times, and a much simpler time being guided on my career by dodgy geezers as a young "get the beers in sarge".Charlie sends