‘Top Gun’ takes on Taliban upside down
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Top Gun
A great shot Teej, looks like there's some nozzle being used.
GPMG, if mentioning that film ( it had plenty of faults but I'm still jealous of the amount of co-operation the U.S. gave the photographers, simply wouldn't happen in the U.K. ) - the chap in question had better learn to tap MFD's if running low on fuel, and go for the wrong handle if things go pear-shaped.
Come to that his girlfriend was a good foot taller than him and turns out to have been batting for the other side...
I also wouldn't care to repeat the ' Show Of Force ', even if I was in a position to do so.
GPMG, if mentioning that film ( it had plenty of faults but I'm still jealous of the amount of co-operation the U.S. gave the photographers, simply wouldn't happen in the U.K. ) - the chap in question had better learn to tap MFD's if running low on fuel, and go for the wrong handle if things go pear-shaped.
Come to that his girlfriend was a good foot taller than him and turns out to have been batting for the other side...
I also wouldn't care to repeat the ' Show Of Force ', even if I was in a position to do so.
Last edited by Double Zero; 5th Jun 2009 at 16:14.
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This is one of the most entertaining threads that I've read in years. There are a few Harrier mates here who are writing informed opinions on rockets vs guns based on A LOT of recent CAS experience, and a lot of people here with little or no experience not listening to the opinions of those that do have the knowledge.
As for the above picture, I can assure you that there was no nozzle being used. If VIFF was being used then there would probably be a second picture of a big smoking hole.
Keep posting - this is keeping me entertained for a short while before going to the Tobie Norris!
BS.
As for the above picture, I can assure you that there was no nozzle being used. If VIFF was being used then there would probably be a second picture of a big smoking hole.
Keep posting - this is keeping me entertained for a short while before going to the Tobie Norris!
BS.
Last edited by BrakingStop; 5th Jun 2009 at 17:15.
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B.S,
Are you sure about that ? ! The nozzles look slightly down to me, though I agree ' Viffing ' ( copywright the Sun newspaper ) would have meant a nasty coming together with the photo' aircraft/ person.
If you reckon rockets are better than guns who'm I to judge, I only filmed earlier versions, though I'd be amazed if rockets are as accurate after what I saw; I'm listening to your mates but still not quite believing, after being involved with most test flying on the Harrier at its' birthplace - I don't doubt you get more ' bang for your buck ' with CRV7's wherever they go!
DZ
Are you sure about that ? ! The nozzles look slightly down to me, though I agree ' Viffing ' ( copywright the Sun newspaper ) would have meant a nasty coming together with the photo' aircraft/ person.
If you reckon rockets are better than guns who'm I to judge, I only filmed earlier versions, though I'd be amazed if rockets are as accurate after what I saw; I'm listening to your mates but still not quite believing, after being involved with most test flying on the Harrier at its' birthplace - I don't doubt you get more ' bang for your buck ' with CRV7's wherever they go!
DZ
Last edited by Double Zero; 5th Jun 2009 at 18:37.
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Every combat aircraft should have an (internal) gun. It is an extremely flexible weapon whilst being relatively cheap. Modern systems are pretty accurate, both air to air and air to ground. You can, of course, adopt the "mad woman ****ting" approach and have a poorly setup gun teamed with a sighting system that doesn't use radar or laser to rangefind - but that is for the amateurs.
As to the whole Harrier rockets/gun debate, as has been mentioned many times, they tried to get a gun many moons ago and it didn't work. Instead they now have rockets, which are pretty good. Harrier guys obviously big it up, and in truth there are some advantages over a gun but at the end of the day how many other FJs have decided that it is worth losing 2 pylons in exchange for some rockets?
IMHO the Harrier has, as always, done the best it can given the limitations of the aircraft but most CAS operators would much prefer a gun plus 2 pylons for JDAM/LGB/PMIV or maybe even fuel tanks!!
Edited to add: Didn't know if I should laugh or cry at the earlier US views of "What's the point of SoF/SoP just kill them all"
As to the whole Harrier rockets/gun debate, as has been mentioned many times, they tried to get a gun many moons ago and it didn't work. Instead they now have rockets, which are pretty good. Harrier guys obviously big it up, and in truth there are some advantages over a gun but at the end of the day how many other FJs have decided that it is worth losing 2 pylons in exchange for some rockets?
IMHO the Harrier has, as always, done the best it can given the limitations of the aircraft but most CAS operators would much prefer a gun plus 2 pylons for JDAM/LGB/PMIV or maybe even fuel tanks!!
Edited to add: Didn't know if I should laugh or cry at the earlier US views of "What's the point of SoF/SoP just kill them all"
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I can photograph a Harrier or other aircraft going by, some smartarse with an RPG can do the same thing
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Actually I did have to account for lead; with a camera it's known as panning, and I still had to aim in front of the aircraft & swing as it passed; I ended up working for a while with an Iranian RPG team leader ( that's Crawley for you... ) and found A, he's a charming peaceful guy, B the technique is much the same !
One memorable shoot was John Farley going past Dunsfold ATC tower - if bothered see www.harrier.org.uk and scroll down to Harrier Testing, I know there are some mistakes, some mine some others' -he did it four times ( around 30', 300 + knots ) of which I was able to get two, no fast motordrive or shutter speed on a Hasselblad, but with a guided missile it may be a different matter - with other issues best not discussed here.
I'm very surprised to hear rockets are the favoured option ( after what I saw on test ranges, I was involved with designators however not including CRV7's ) - but if you guys are really happy without a rifled gun, great, it certainly does keep the weight down.
As for Paveways, I take it you have good armourers to take out individuals.
One memorable shoot was John Farley going past Dunsfold ATC tower - if bothered see www.harrier.org.uk and scroll down to Harrier Testing, I know there are some mistakes, some mine some others' -he did it four times ( around 30', 300 + knots ) of which I was able to get two, no fast motordrive or shutter speed on a Hasselblad, but with a guided missile it may be a different matter - with other issues best not discussed here.
I'm very surprised to hear rockets are the favoured option ( after what I saw on test ranges, I was involved with designators however not including CRV7's ) - but if you guys are really happy without a rifled gun, great, it certainly does keep the weight down.
As for Paveways, I take it you have good armourers to take out individuals.
Last edited by Double Zero; 6th Jun 2009 at 15:32.
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CAS Gun v CRV
At last a thread that I know something about. I have recently returned from Afghanistan where I was a JTAC(yank for FAC) for over 6 months. I controlled loads of different types of A/C ranging from B-1B to French M2K.My experience with both GR7/9 was extremely positive and too a man every Brit JTAC would prefer a GR-9 over any other A/C. Ok it doesn't have a gun. However the CRV-7 was more than able to make up for this. Single shot it if you want. There is nothing worse than some spotter reading something and then being an expert( well I can thnk of a few things worse,however). I worked and controlled with firstly NSW and then IV sqn and they provided the best CAS support in Afghanistan. Without a gun ! They also let us play on there playstation,drink brews and generally abuse there hospitality whenever we got up to KAF. Just DONT FEED THERE FISH!!!
You fed the fish and survived? 
Glad to hear it all worked out for you out there - it was a pleasure working for you. Maybe your comments will put an end to the rubbish being spouted on this thread!
Glad to hear it all worked out for you out there - it was a pleasure working for you. Maybe your comments will put an end to the rubbish being spouted on this thread!
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I don't know if I'm the ' spotter ' mentioned, if so I suggest you read my posts more thoroughly, I was simply asking a question re. guns; I was on the original test team for the UK Harrier 2 ( GR5 & 7 ) and FRS1 & 2 - including at test ranges, where the last thing I'd do is take happy snaps.
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backwards PLT
Ginger piss wizard, I thought you would know better. Your model aeroplane does not have a gun either and it's one of the most important CAS/ISR platforms in theatre.
