RAF Smugglers!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
spheroid, would you care to say exactly when your mail was examined and items removed?
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Spheroid
I bet you can now sleep at night having got that off your chest. I take it you think that during the Falklands there were only 20 Movers at ASI and nobody else. Considering the real estate at ASI I would guess there wasn't much space for anything, where would mail have been kept? Once it left ASI assuming by air, I take it any bored passenger sat on the Herc would not have been tempted to have a fiddle with the freight, or did your mates have a rummage before delivering it to you. I might have to ask a few of my mates who are still serving and where in ASI at the time.
Anyway enjoy the next 27 years until the next oppertunity arises for you to vent your anger.
I bet you can now sleep at night having got that off your chest. I take it you think that during the Falklands there were only 20 Movers at ASI and nobody else. Considering the real estate at ASI I would guess there wasn't much space for anything, where would mail have been kept? Once it left ASI assuming by air, I take it any bored passenger sat on the Herc would not have been tempted to have a fiddle with the freight, or did your mates have a rummage before delivering it to you. I might have to ask a few of my mates who are still serving and where in ASI at the time.
Anyway enjoy the next 27 years until the next oppertunity arises for you to vent your anger.
I think we can agree:
By the way, I recall a colleague bringing back a ride-on lawnmower years ago. He declared it, but 'Farquhar-the-Revenue' (Old Scamptonians may remember him) made him pay car tax on it! This was later revoked when some more senior Customs mate saw sense!
Typical HMRC chat of not so long ago:
"Anything to declare?"
"Yes - a DJ of Metaxa brandy"
"Not exactly Remy Martin, is it sir? A bit like kokinelli, wouldn't you say?"
"Err..OK, I see what you mean. Pretty much"
"OK, then, call it a couple of quid as it's almost Christmas!"
- Theft is a crime, but theft from service colleagues is an even bigger crime.
- It is totally unfair to tar everyone of the same trade with the same brush
- HMRC generally play ball with servicemen and give them a lot of leeway
By the way, I recall a colleague bringing back a ride-on lawnmower years ago. He declared it, but 'Farquhar-the-Revenue' (Old Scamptonians may remember him) made him pay car tax on it! This was later revoked when some more senior Customs mate saw sense!
Typical HMRC chat of not so long ago:
"Anything to declare?"
"Yes - a DJ of Metaxa brandy"
"Not exactly Remy Martin, is it sir? A bit like kokinelli, wouldn't you say?"
"Err..OK, I see what you mean. Pretty much"
"OK, then, call it a couple of quid as it's almost Christmas!"
Lost Crate.
Bit dated now but I recollect that when I and my Family left Gib. 1970,at end of tour, One of 6 deep sea crates went adrift!!!.
I spread the valuables around the crates but the one missing had the most interestring and valuable "Manifest".
They all came into Tilbury Docks.
5 crates turned up OK. (out in the sticks of East Suffolk)
Started the Trace routine to find missing Crate, even went myself to the Warehouse at the docks. No sign of said crate.
Left it for a few days then had a brainwave!!
My Father worked for the Admiralty at Bath HQ.
Chatted to him and asked if he had any "Contacts" in the right places.
24 hrs later the crate turned up delivered OK.
On checking a bit deeper I was told it was found in a corner of another
unused Warehouse on the Docks!!!!!!.
So lesson learnt that there are some bad apples in most "Mover" type oganisations, who let themselves and the Honest majority down.
Human nature I guess!!!!!
I spread the valuables around the crates but the one missing had the most interestring and valuable "Manifest".
They all came into Tilbury Docks.
5 crates turned up OK. (out in the sticks of East Suffolk)
Started the Trace routine to find missing Crate, even went myself to the Warehouse at the docks. No sign of said crate.
Left it for a few days then had a brainwave!!
My Father worked for the Admiralty at Bath HQ.
Chatted to him and asked if he had any "Contacts" in the right places.
24 hrs later the crate turned up delivered OK.
On checking a bit deeper I was told it was found in a corner of another
unused Warehouse on the Docks!!!!!!.
So lesson learnt that there are some bad apples in most "Mover" type oganisations, who let themselves and the Honest majority down.
Human nature I guess!!!!!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
IIRC at Scampton and Waddo we 'lost' our customs officer and found instead we were going to be cleared by the local excise officer instead. Oh sh1t we thought, he won't have any idea what the form is.
No, he didn't, bl00dy brilliant he was. As long as you played by the rules he applied the rules sensibly. Mind you, that may be where it all went t1ts ^p in the House. Rules being applied sensibly then someone starts to bend them, then only fair that someone else can bend a bit more until someone eventually, in the modern vernacular, rips the ^rse out of the system.
No, he didn't, bl00dy brilliant he was. As long as you played by the rules he applied the rules sensibly. Mind you, that may be where it all went t1ts ^p in the House. Rules being applied sensibly then someone starts to bend them, then only fair that someone else can bend a bit more until someone eventually, in the modern vernacular, rips the ^rse out of the system.
At the Covert Oxonian Aerodrome, the Flying Club is right next to the Air Cargo hangar.
One fine day, a CAA chap who worked at Oxford Airport dropped by to fly my Instructor Revalidation check on his way home. As he'd come straight from work, he was in NATO blue pully with 4 large gold rings, white shirt, black tie and black trousers.
The same uniform as worn by HMRC.
A few of the Movers went as white as sheets as they thought that a surprise Customs check was about to kick off. I had a chat with their WO who thought it was excellent fun - "Let the bug.gers panic - it'll help me find out who the bad apples are!" was his comment.....
CAA chum was ex-RAF and also saw the funny side.
One fine day, a CAA chap who worked at Oxford Airport dropped by to fly my Instructor Revalidation check on his way home. As he'd come straight from work, he was in NATO blue pully with 4 large gold rings, white shirt, black tie and black trousers.
The same uniform as worn by HMRC.
A few of the Movers went as white as sheets as they thought that a surprise Customs check was about to kick off. I had a chat with their WO who thought it was excellent fun - "Let the bug.gers panic - it'll help me find out who the bad apples are!" was his comment.....
CAA chum was ex-RAF and also saw the funny side.
Last edited by BEagle; 25th May 2009 at 15:52.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
to get a lesser sentance they will sing like a bird
Think on.
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Detroit MI
Age: 66
Posts: 1,460
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That's what I love about PPRuNe. Long after the other websites, e-goat arrse etc have finished commenting on this story, it lingers on and on and on and eventually turns into a slagging match with the usual main characters having ago at somebody who dares to answer back.
Doing a bit of research regarding Valettas in the Aviation History & Nostalgia Forum I came across this cutting as to how miscreants were dealt with in 1954. Hard Labour in Hong Kong - I can't think of anything worse - well I can, but it's not normally mentioned in polite company!
See the second paragraph.
See the second paragraph.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Middle England
Posts: 546
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BEagle
Ref customs at that secret Airodrome...I was the Air Cargo Officer, moons ago, at said base. We had about the best relationship with HMRC guys and were permitted to clear freight because of that good relationship. We went out of our way to demonstrate honesty and integrity and NEVER did anything to compromise that trust. I've read so much utter bollox on this thread about Movers being thieves etc....Spheroid is a haemaroid for stating such cock. Why would movers want pictures of HIS family.....
Ref customs at that secret Airodrome...I was the Air Cargo Officer, moons ago, at said base. We had about the best relationship with HMRC guys and were permitted to clear freight because of that good relationship. We went out of our way to demonstrate honesty and integrity and NEVER did anything to compromise that trust. I've read so much utter bollox on this thread about Movers being thieves etc....Spheroid is a haemaroid for stating such cock. Why would movers want pictures of HIS family.....
Everybody needs to calm down. Here we have a few individuals that exploited a situation for their own benefit and they will be punished, quite severely and quite rightly. There are not many civvies that would lose their pensions over an offence like this, and if there are senior ranks involved then the financial penalty is going to be very severe. There will always be some around who are going to push it too far, that doesn't mean we should blame everyone.
I once remember as a young techie in Germany a Chief Tech who had a particular liking of cigars (The boxes of King Edwards that cost £5 for 50), on his return to the UK he filled 5 triwall boxes with said cigars. When it was pointed out to him by other SNCOs that he risked losing his pension etc he shrugged his shoulders and said 'nobody would know'. He was willing to risk his financial security in retirement for the short term gain of a few thousand cigars. His choice at that stage, you can't say he wasn't warned. Then there were the enterprising couples who, before the rules were changed, used to order two new Porsche 944 every week. Every weekend they would both drive back to the UK via the ferry and sell the cars to a garage for a 10% mark up in the UK. £8000-£10 000 per month was a shi*load of money in 1980.
Jump off the outrage waggon, its too stressful. Everybody laughed at Sgt Bilko didn't they? The reality though is that these guys are likely to do time. I am sure much worse cases have gone on undetected over the years, and they will happen again wherever someone sees an opportunity to be exploited.
Short term gain, long term loss....Stupid!
I once remember as a young techie in Germany a Chief Tech who had a particular liking of cigars (The boxes of King Edwards that cost £5 for 50), on his return to the UK he filled 5 triwall boxes with said cigars. When it was pointed out to him by other SNCOs that he risked losing his pension etc he shrugged his shoulders and said 'nobody would know'. He was willing to risk his financial security in retirement for the short term gain of a few thousand cigars. His choice at that stage, you can't say he wasn't warned. Then there were the enterprising couples who, before the rules were changed, used to order two new Porsche 944 every week. Every weekend they would both drive back to the UK via the ferry and sell the cars to a garage for a 10% mark up in the UK. £8000-£10 000 per month was a shi*load of money in 1980.
Jump off the outrage waggon, its too stressful. Everybody laughed at Sgt Bilko didn't they? The reality though is that these guys are likely to do time. I am sure much worse cases have gone on undetected over the years, and they will happen again wherever someone sees an opportunity to be exploited.
Short term gain, long term loss....Stupid!
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: lether
Age: 54
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hopefully the individuals involved will get discharged and a custodial sentence, apparently serious money was involved as this had been going on for quite a while, its unfortunate that they abused their positions of trust.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oxfordshire
Age: 52
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Foldingwings, see previous 5 pages, as Magistrate of the Parish I am sure you will be outraged by the some of these comments!!! How dare people express their thoughts, using their basic human right to do so! Perhaps some of us know these individuals and know a little more about their involvement, thus we should take care about what we write on a public forum.... it is not fair for us to judge them, the court will decided wheher they are guilty or not. Foldingwings, I'll check back with you in 6 months, I'll be interested to hear what that humble pie tastes like...... Listening out :-)
Nelly
It won't be humble pie Foldie will be eating. He won't need to. Innocent until proven guilty is the way it is despite the fact that you are hinting that you know otherwise. Of course if any of the accused are found not guilty those that spouted suggestions that they are guilty, even doing so under a nom de plume, could well find themselves in the dock ....
You are of course correct that the courts will decide their fate. But don't be so sure of a guilty plea regardless of what you may know - people were convinced of mistreatment in Iraq (and openly said so before the verdict was announced) and the accused all walked (apart from the one who pleaded guilty).
Slight thread creep but just out of curiosity - if a lorry driver unknowingly 'imports' a migrant throught the chunnel or on the ferry he is held responsible and faces a heavy fine, possibly prison and almost certainly the loss of his job. Are the Captains of the aircraft in which these cigarettes were (allegdedly - I haven't seen the evidence
) smuggled back in likely to face prosecution as well?
It won't be humble pie Foldie will be eating. He won't need to. Innocent until proven guilty is the way it is despite the fact that you are hinting that you know otherwise. Of course if any of the accused are found not guilty those that spouted suggestions that they are guilty, even doing so under a nom de plume, could well find themselves in the dock ....
You are of course correct that the courts will decide their fate. But don't be so sure of a guilty plea regardless of what you may know - people were convinced of mistreatment in Iraq (and openly said so before the verdict was announced) and the accused all walked (apart from the one who pleaded guilty).
Slight thread creep but just out of curiosity - if a lorry driver unknowingly 'imports' a migrant throught the chunnel or on the ferry he is held responsible and faces a heavy fine, possibly prison and almost certainly the loss of his job. Are the Captains of the aircraft in which these cigarettes were (allegdedly - I haven't seen the evidence
) smuggled back in likely to face prosecution as well?
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 737
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wrathmonk - an interesting point, possibly more relevant to the Loadie though.
Innocent until proven guilty? I suppose we better behave ourselves now that the names are out. It'll depend on the evidence, rather than whether they did it or not. Is it illegal to have a suitcase full of cash under your bed? I think not.
Anyway, to keep it tidy:-
BBC News - Four RAF men on smuggling charges
Four RAF men on smuggling charges
Four RAF servicemen have been charged over smuggling cigarettes on military flights into two English RAF bases. HM Revenue & Customs said inquiries suggested huge quantities were smuggled into RAF Lyneham in Wiltshire and RAF Brize Norton in Oxfordshire.
The men, arrested earlier this year, were charged with conspiracy to evade the duty chargeable on commercial-scale quantities of cigarettes.
They are due to appear at Bristol Magistrates' Court on 5 January.
The men are: Senior Aircraftsman Paul Garbutt, 30, of Billingham, Teesside; Cpl Stuart Helens, 30, of Sunderland; Sgt Stuart Walker, 42, of Basingstoke, Hampshire and Cpl Thomas Warren, 21, of Lyneham, Wiltshire.
Innocent until proven guilty? I suppose we better behave ourselves now that the names are out. It'll depend on the evidence, rather than whether they did it or not. Is it illegal to have a suitcase full of cash under your bed? I think not.
Anyway, to keep it tidy:-
BBC News - Four RAF men on smuggling charges
Four RAF men on smuggling charges
Four RAF servicemen have been charged over smuggling cigarettes on military flights into two English RAF bases. HM Revenue & Customs said inquiries suggested huge quantities were smuggled into RAF Lyneham in Wiltshire and RAF Brize Norton in Oxfordshire.
The men, arrested earlier this year, were charged with conspiracy to evade the duty chargeable on commercial-scale quantities of cigarettes.
They are due to appear at Bristol Magistrates' Court on 5 January.
The men are: Senior Aircraftsman Paul Garbutt, 30, of Billingham, Teesside; Cpl Stuart Helens, 30, of Sunderland; Sgt Stuart Walker, 42, of Basingstoke, Hampshire and Cpl Thomas Warren, 21, of Lyneham, Wiltshire.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: NOTTINGHAM
Posts: 758
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nelly the Nav
My objection was and still is to your manner and attitude on your (apparently) first post! You clearly had not read the history since the first post on the subject 7 months ago but jumped in with such phrases as:
If you truly are new to PPRuNe then, take my advice, get some time in before you start fishing here!
My point still stands. They are innocent until proven guilty and no amount of inside knowledge (if indeed you have any) is going to change that.
You remain, in my opinion, a prat for jumping in without engaging brain before opening mouth (or finger to keyboard).
So that others might decide on your value to PPRune here is a link to your first post: http://www.pprune.org/military-aircr...smuggling.html
Foldie
My objection was and still is to your manner and attitude on your (apparently) first post! You clearly had not read the history since the first post on the subject 7 months ago but jumped in with such phrases as:
Only 4 individuals? I'm slightly suspicious that this runs a lot deeper!
What were these idiots thinking?
What were these idiots thinking?
My point still stands. They are innocent until proven guilty and no amount of inside knowledge (if indeed you have any) is going to change that.
You remain, in my opinion, a prat for jumping in without engaging brain before opening mouth (or finger to keyboard).
So that others might decide on your value to PPRune here is a link to your first post: http://www.pprune.org/military-aircr...smuggling.html
Foldie
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Back in the USSR
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From Witney Gazette:
Four more more people have been charged with smuggling cigarettes on military flights through RAF Brize Norton.
Christopher Garbutt, 25, Louisa Garbutt, 35, and Alison McCabe, 44, all from Billingham, in Cleveland, and Lisa Harrison, 35, of Middlesbrough, have been charged with cigarette smuggling and money laundering offences. They will appear at Bristol Crown Court on January 5.
Last week, four military personnel were charged with similar offences at Brize Norton and at RAF Lyneham, in Wiltshire.
Four more more people have been charged with smuggling cigarettes on military flights through RAF Brize Norton.
Christopher Garbutt, 25, Louisa Garbutt, 35, and Alison McCabe, 44, all from Billingham, in Cleveland, and Lisa Harrison, 35, of Middlesbrough, have been charged with cigarette smuggling and money laundering offences. They will appear at Bristol Crown Court on January 5.
Last week, four military personnel were charged with similar offences at Brize Norton and at RAF Lyneham, in Wiltshire.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oxfordshire
Age: 52
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hmmmm, so there appear to be others involved (Barrack Room Lawyers please note use of word appear), wouldn't wish to comment on what I think the outcome of any court hearing for these individuals may be; for fear of being issued a writ for libel against the accused, further note to aforementioned lawyers, all views expressed in this forum are my own and based on open source evidence collected and published by HMRC, which currently suggests there are resonable grounds to believe said individuals are indeed involved in criminality....
Seriously though, I re-opened this thread to provoke discussion in relation to what (if proved in a court of law) will do no end of damage to the reputation of the Royal Air Force. I was recently told that there have been yet more arrests, but until I can confirm this is open source information and indeed fact, I shall not post details, I already have a wannabe QC on my back from my initial thread
Seriously though, I re-opened this thread to provoke discussion in relation to what (if proved in a court of law) will do no end of damage to the reputation of the Royal Air Force. I was recently told that there have been yet more arrests, but until I can confirm this is open source information and indeed fact, I shall not post details, I already have a wannabe QC on my back from my initial thread
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: South Africa
Age: 87
Posts: 1,329
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Senior Aircraftsman Paul Garbutt, 30, of Billingham, Teesside; Cpl Stuart Helens, 30, of Sunderland; Sgt Stuart Walker, 42, of Basingstoke, Hampshire and Cpl Thomas Warren, 21, of Lyneham, Wiltshire.
Christopher Garbutt, 25, Louisa Garbutt, 35, and Alison McCabe, 44, all from Billingham, in Cleveland, and Lisa Harrison, 35, of Middlesbrough,
Or maybe this Redcar Lad is being sensitive
