New EU/US Heavy lift Helo proposal
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New EU/US Heavy lift Helo proposal
Business Feed Article | Business | guardian.co.uk
Saw this over on RR, thought it may possibly be of interest to some
Saw this over on RR, thought it may possibly be of interest to some
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
This has been going round the houses on the web sites for at least 2-3 years.
The two possible options are based on the CH-53K and the Mi-26.
The CH-53K based option would take the entire engine/transmission chain and put it in a larger fuselage. (The USMC use it mainly for external large loads, the Germans prefer internal).
The Mi-26 would take the existing Halo and update the design/avionics to reduce the crew from 5 down to 2/3. Not sure if there is a European transmission/engine upgrade in that loop.
Highest probability is the CH-53K option, though the M-26 is apparently only about 1/3 to 1/2 the cost.
The two possible options are based on the CH-53K and the Mi-26.
The CH-53K based option would take the entire engine/transmission chain and put it in a larger fuselage. (The USMC use it mainly for external large loads, the Germans prefer internal).
The Mi-26 would take the existing Halo and update the design/avionics to reduce the crew from 5 down to 2/3. Not sure if there is a European transmission/engine upgrade in that loop.
Highest probability is the CH-53K option, though the M-26 is apparently only about 1/3 to 1/2 the cost.
Helo-Lift capacity within the EU is not the issue. It's getting the little blighters to deploy (RNLAF Excluded) anywhere their needed and do anything useful once their there.
Contracts are not the solution, a bit of spine is.
Contracts are not the solution, a bit of spine is.
Scrumpy,
There is nothing wrong, per se, with the Chinook. However, by comparison to the Halo (and to a lesser degree the CH-53K) the Chinook is a "Medium" helicopter in terms of lift capacity. I parked a CH47 next to a Halo once, walked a 100yds away and turned around...well, it was a bit like looking at a Lynx parked next to a CH47!
So, if you want a disposable payload of 15-20000 Kg you've got to look beyond the Chinook. Mind you, I wouldn't mind betting that Boeing would respond with either an up-engined/transmissioned/stretched CH47 or the proposed quad tiltrotor if this venture ever came to anything..
There is also the issue that the proposed users are not currently Chinook operators, and therefore have never experienced the joys of tandem rotor flight!
There is nothing wrong, per se, with the Chinook. However, by comparison to the Halo (and to a lesser degree the CH-53K) the Chinook is a "Medium" helicopter in terms of lift capacity. I parked a CH47 next to a Halo once, walked a 100yds away and turned around...well, it was a bit like looking at a Lynx parked next to a CH47!
So, if you want a disposable payload of 15-20000 Kg you've got to look beyond the Chinook. Mind you, I wouldn't mind betting that Boeing would respond with either an up-engined/transmissioned/stretched CH47 or the proposed quad tiltrotor if this venture ever came to anything..
There is also the issue that the proposed users are not currently Chinook operators, and therefore have never experienced the joys of tandem rotor flight!
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Notwithstanding the superb work done by the Chinooks on HERRICK and elsewhere, there would definitely be merit in a larger SH design - not so much for troop moves, more for internal vehicles. The ability to carry vehicles such as Jackal and Vector internally, coupled with the ability to rapidly disembark them on landing, would have marked benefits on ops.
A typical small AFV (Jackal, Wiesel 2, etc) will be 4.5m - 5m long, around 2m wide and at least 2m high, and weigh 5-7 Tonnes. Thus to move one internally, and deploy it rapidly, would require both a larger aircraft cabin than the Chinook's and a greater max internal payload. A Mi-26 would fit the bill, but I just can't see it happening!
A typical small AFV (Jackal, Wiesel 2, etc) will be 4.5m - 5m long, around 2m wide and at least 2m high, and weigh 5-7 Tonnes. Thus to move one internally, and deploy it rapidly, would require both a larger aircraft cabin than the Chinook's and a greater max internal payload. A Mi-26 would fit the bill, but I just can't see it happening!
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Quad tiltrotor wow, can you imagine how much development and production would cost, after the amount the V22's put the US back. I shudder to think.
I’d suggest the Deutsches Heer would happily settle for the CH-53K, but the French want a piece of the action and therefore see an opportunity for an EADS HTH. With a projected in-service date of 2020 and a (Short Scale) price tag of €30,000,000 each, I hope for the EDA’s sake it’s not called the A400N or NH91.
Using CH-53K dynamics would reduce much of the program risk, but the resulting platform would compete, so interesting to see whether this happens.
Using CH-53K dynamics would reduce much of the program risk, but the resulting platform would compete, so interesting to see whether this happens.
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Joint Heavy Lift Rotorcraft (JHL) Not Joint
The Joint Heavy Lift Rotorcraft (JHL) program is `joint' in name only and is only intended to be the Department of the Army's next-generation heavy lift rotorcraft to replace the Army's CH-47 Chinook. The Marine Corps has its own program, the Heavy Lift Replacement (HLR), intended to replace the CH-53E Super Stallion.
Although the Marine Corps calls its program the "Heavy-Lift Replacement" it is a medium-heavy-lift capability by Army standards. The Marine CH-53K Super Stallion HLR - Heavy Lift Replacement has a threshold requirement to carry 27,000 lb over 110 nm unrefueled. The Army HLVTOL - Heavy Lift VTOL is an aircraft with the ability to deliver one 40,000 lb FCS within a radius of 1,000 miles [1,600 km].
As of 2005 the timelines for heavy lift rotorcraft replacement were not the same for the Army and the Marine Corps. But some claimed it was possible to establish a competitive program based on a single joint requirement that phased rotorcraft delivery in a manner to meet both service schedules.
In the past issues such as corrosion control requirements, range, lift capability and ship basing have been used to justify separate programs. However, it is clear that in the future both the Army and the Marine Corps will operate from and be transported by ship and therefore, require the same level of corrosion control, be subject to other considerations mandated by ship based operations, and need be capable of similar long ranges.
Marine Corps acquisition officials weighed the option of participating with the Army’s Joint Heavy Lift program. The Army’s proposed heavy lift requirement to transport the Future Combat System greatly exceeds Marine requirement. The actual aircraft hasn’t been designed as of 2006, but initial analysis suggested the joint heavy lifter will be too large to operate from current and programmed amphibious shipping. The Marines may have a use for it, but in more of a logistical role as a possible KC-130J replacement, so the Marines still need the CH-53K for tactical heavy lift.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/jhl.htm
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Description: The Joint Heavy Lift (JHL) is a United States Department of Defense (DoD) program intended to produce a theater tactical transport aircraft capable of lifting heavyweight loads vertically. The end customer for the JHL aircraft would be the US Army. To date, DoD has selected three industry teams for the conceptual design and analysis phase of JHL program: Karem Aircraft and Lockheed Martin with the Optimum Speed Tilt-Rotor (OSTR) design; Boeing and Bell Helicopter with the Advanced Tandem Rotor Helicopter (ATRH) and QuadTiltrotor (QTR) aircraft; and Sikorsky with its X2 Technology Demonstrator.
http://www.deagel.com/Military-Transport-Aircraft/JHL_a002096001.aspx
The Joint Heavy Lift Rotorcraft (JHL) program is `joint' in name only and is only intended to be the Department of the Army's next-generation heavy lift rotorcraft to replace the Army's CH-47 Chinook. The Marine Corps has its own program, the Heavy Lift Replacement (HLR), intended to replace the CH-53E Super Stallion.
Although the Marine Corps calls its program the "Heavy-Lift Replacement" it is a medium-heavy-lift capability by Army standards. The Marine CH-53K Super Stallion HLR - Heavy Lift Replacement has a threshold requirement to carry 27,000 lb over 110 nm unrefueled. The Army HLVTOL - Heavy Lift VTOL is an aircraft with the ability to deliver one 40,000 lb FCS within a radius of 1,000 miles [1,600 km].
As of 2005 the timelines for heavy lift rotorcraft replacement were not the same for the Army and the Marine Corps. But some claimed it was possible to establish a competitive program based on a single joint requirement that phased rotorcraft delivery in a manner to meet both service schedules.
In the past issues such as corrosion control requirements, range, lift capability and ship basing have been used to justify separate programs. However, it is clear that in the future both the Army and the Marine Corps will operate from and be transported by ship and therefore, require the same level of corrosion control, be subject to other considerations mandated by ship based operations, and need be capable of similar long ranges.
Marine Corps acquisition officials weighed the option of participating with the Army’s Joint Heavy Lift program. The Army’s proposed heavy lift requirement to transport the Future Combat System greatly exceeds Marine requirement. The actual aircraft hasn’t been designed as of 2006, but initial analysis suggested the joint heavy lifter will be too large to operate from current and programmed amphibious shipping. The Marines may have a use for it, but in more of a logistical role as a possible KC-130J replacement, so the Marines still need the CH-53K for tactical heavy lift.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/jhl.htm
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Description: The Joint Heavy Lift (JHL) is a United States Department of Defense (DoD) program intended to produce a theater tactical transport aircraft capable of lifting heavyweight loads vertically. The end customer for the JHL aircraft would be the US Army. To date, DoD has selected three industry teams for the conceptual design and analysis phase of JHL program: Karem Aircraft and Lockheed Martin with the Optimum Speed Tilt-Rotor (OSTR) design; Boeing and Bell Helicopter with the Advanced Tandem Rotor Helicopter (ATRH) and QuadTiltrotor (QTR) aircraft; and Sikorsky with its X2 Technology Demonstrator.
http://www.deagel.com/Military-Transport-Aircraft/JHL_a002096001.aspx
