The Navigator in Military Aviation
Join Date: May 2006
Location: 2 m South of Radstock VRP
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There are some jobs Navs can still do, but no one respects (or trusts/listens to) a flight safety officer without wings.
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Planet Google
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I loved being driven around the sky
After 20 or so years as a pilot I can truthfully say that I always enjoyed and learned from being driven around the sky and looking out the window when I only had one wing 
I had always aspired to be aircrew and the only way in for me was as a crewman. On my weekends and evenings off I managed to work my way to a PPL and civil instructor rating and then luckily I was in the right place and got talking to the right person at the right time and grew a second wing
I find it odd that so many people on these threads seem to only find pleasure in putting down those who do not conform to their ideas of what is perfection i.e. 2 Wings
And to state that no one has respect for the wingless is nonsense. We cannot all achieve aircrew status but it doesnt diminish what those who are not do.
I am very proud to have started my career in a back seat and I have total respect for those who still do so by choice or by fate. I was lucky in that I found my way into the front but I do believe that I was equally as happy in the back.
I had always aspired to be aircrew and the only way in for me was as a crewman. On my weekends and evenings off I managed to work my way to a PPL and civil instructor rating and then luckily I was in the right place and got talking to the right person at the right time and grew a second wing
I find it odd that so many people on these threads seem to only find pleasure in putting down those who do not conform to their ideas of what is perfection i.e. 2 Wings
And to state that no one has respect for the wingless is nonsense. We cannot all achieve aircrew status but it doesnt diminish what those who are not do.I am very proud to have started my career in a back seat and I have total respect for those who still do so by choice or by fate. I was lucky in that I found my way into the front but I do believe that I was equally as happy in the back.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: North Yorkshire
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"There are some jobs Navs can still do".
Leafing idly through the RAF Yearbook 2009 prior to my morning shave, as is the wont of the retired pongo, I notice that nearly every squadron, station and airfield (Kandahar) boss pictured in the publication is of the one-winged pursuasion. I leave interpretation of this surprising information to the light-blue pruners.
Leafing idly through the RAF Yearbook 2009 prior to my morning shave, as is the wont of the retired pongo, I notice that nearly every squadron, station and airfield (Kandahar) boss pictured in the publication is of the one-winged pursuasion. I leave interpretation of this surprising information to the light-blue pruners.
Join Date: Dec 2000
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Hey nice trolling 15thManofTain!
I notice you are at Lossie - I would guess you didn't get posted single seat because your instructors decided you were incapable of flying operationally anything other than bombers with the support of a navigator (and we've all heard the old "there were no single seat slots"....) You sound like a first tourist - lose that bitterness and that chip, just get over it the fact they you are where you are; fly well and chances are you may make Typhoon.
Spent most of my earlier career flying with navs (and have to admit that I became a hugely more capable operator in the process), almost all of them exceedingly capable guys doing a first class job who deal quite well with comments from (certain) pilots that strays far beyond what is "banter". That said their days are well and truly numbered but I don't know any ex-nav mate of mine whose left the mob and landed a duff job.
I notice this year's Typhoon display pilot is an ex-nav, maybe one day it will be an ex GR4 bomber mate
So 15'th - just chill out a bit and enjoy the fact that you are doing a job that many others would love to do but don't get a chance. If you really have that much of a problem with navs don't bleat about it anonymously on here - leave.
P.S. There are currently no navs piloting Reapers.
I notice you are at Lossie - I would guess you didn't get posted single seat because your instructors decided you were incapable of flying operationally anything other than bombers with the support of a navigator (and we've all heard the old "there were no single seat slots"....) You sound like a first tourist - lose that bitterness and that chip, just get over it the fact they you are where you are; fly well and chances are you may make Typhoon.
Spent most of my earlier career flying with navs (and have to admit that I became a hugely more capable operator in the process), almost all of them exceedingly capable guys doing a first class job who deal quite well with comments from (certain) pilots that strays far beyond what is "banter". That said their days are well and truly numbered but I don't know any ex-nav mate of mine whose left the mob and landed a duff job.
I notice this year's Typhoon display pilot is an ex-nav, maybe one day it will be an ex GR4 bomber mate
So 15'th - just chill out a bit and enjoy the fact that you are doing a job that many others would love to do but don't get a chance. If you really have that much of a problem with navs don't bleat about it anonymously on here - leave.
P.S. There are currently no navs piloting Reapers.
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: earth
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Interesting to compare the effectiveness of single seat fighters versus two seat over the years.
I've seen many examples of superior single seat aircraft with equally superior weapons systems reduced to nought against two seaters occasionally but much more often at night, in bad weather and whenever the plan was changing rapidly to meet new events in the exercise or war.
The difference with a two man crew was quite simply that the navigator could apply his fully focussed ability to reduce or solve the problem and his pilot could continue to operate the aircraft safely whilst he did so.
When life got difficult the Nav was worth far far more than his fuel weight.
I've seen many examples of superior single seat aircraft with equally superior weapons systems reduced to nought against two seaters occasionally but much more often at night, in bad weather and whenever the plan was changing rapidly to meet new events in the exercise or war.
The difference with a two man crew was quite simply that the navigator could apply his fully focussed ability to reduce or solve the problem and his pilot could continue to operate the aircraft safely whilst he did so.
When life got difficult the Nav was worth far far more than his fuel weight.
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Behind the wire.
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Golf Bravo Zulu
With reference to the toaster incident…. I see nothing wrong with the individuals actions. The danger would only present itself should the said individual suffer from a nav-like lack of coordination…. Which given the individuals inherent adroitness, I think we can all agree is unlikely.
Rules are for the adherence of fools and guidance of the wise!
With reference to the toaster incident…. I see nothing wrong with the individuals actions. The danger would only present itself should the said individual suffer from a nav-like lack of coordination…. Which given the individuals inherent adroitness, I think we can all agree is unlikely.
Rules are for the adherence of fools and guidance of the wise!
Join Date: May 2002
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Gotta make my own flippant joke...
What did the retired navigator say to the retired pilot?
"Do you want fries with that?"
Seriously: as long as there is a plethora of information to be processed in the cockpit, then there is a role for someone to help make sense of it. Particularly if the aircraft is frying chickens in the barnyard at 150 feet and trying to drop a bomb in a bucket whilst being shot at.
What did the retired navigator say to the retired pilot?
"Do you want fries with that?"
Seriously: as long as there is a plethora of information to be processed in the cockpit, then there is a role for someone to help make sense of it. Particularly if the aircraft is frying chickens in the barnyard at 150 feet and trying to drop a bomb in a bucket whilst being shot at.
Envoy:- Gotta make my own flippant joke...
What did the retired navigator say to the retired pilot?
"Do you want fries with that?"
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha etc.........
Never heard that one before. Well done you.
What did the retired navigator say to the retired pilot?
"Do you want fries with that?"
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha etc.........
Never heard that one before. Well done you.
Join Date: Aug 2008
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Beagle : AAV = Autonomous Air Vehicle
(rather than UAV Unmanned Air Vehicle)
UAV just takes the pilot and sticks him on the floor. AAV makes him redundant. The acronym has been around for a while in the procurement and engineering sectors
I'm not talking Predator but what is to come. The job of controlling a AAV will be more like the current Nav's job than the pilots role IMO. They will probably call them pilots though.
(rather than UAV Unmanned Air Vehicle)
UAV just takes the pilot and sticks him on the floor. AAV makes him redundant. The acronym has been around for a while in the procurement and engineering sectors
I'm not talking Predator but what is to come. The job of controlling a AAV will be more like the current Nav's job than the pilots role IMO. They will probably call them pilots though.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 59°09N 002°38W (IATA: SOY, ICAO: EGER)
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About 40 years ago there was an RAF advert which showed a steely-eyed fighter pilot, complete with his electric hat, in the cockpit of the latest fighter (Javelin?). A reproduction of the advert appeared in one RAF station's quarterly magazine, someone had added a think bubble coming out of the pilot's head "But I only wanted to be a cook!"
They will probably call them pilots though.
RPVs, UAVs, UCAVs, AAVs, call them what you will, they're still just drones.
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Gotta make my own flippant joke
"Err.........chaps where do I sit?" In the back with the rest of the passengers.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Join Date: Feb 2007
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And the pilot sits in the front with the fantastic view whilst the drones sit in the back, well away from anything important
The sooner some of the drones on here accept that the better they will be
The sooner some of the drones on here accept that the better they will be