Should officers spend compulsory time in the ranks?
OP is clearly a troll with a chip on his shoulder. However I’m not sure how much pleasure he’ll get when he realises PPRuNe military forum follows the same pattern no matter what the subject is…couple of answers before it goes down a “back in my day”, “I remember when I was in the RAF back in the 1960s/1970s” rabbit hole. In fact, I’d be surprised if there are any responses from anyone who hasn’t been drawing their military pension since the late 90s.
However, for what little my opinion is worth, the basic premise by the OP did very well to draw more reply than "the idea is cobblers, move on!".
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Whilst it is interesting to hear tales of the RAF of yesteryear, there are always those bores who rail against the current “woke” RAF. Those halcyon days where the closest one got to ops was a Taceval or an inconvenience was the NAAFI running out of duty free cigarettes.
34 years ago a trip to the range was met with dread. The inevitable inspection after getting off the bus when someone had an errant hair on the chin or a spot on the mess tin. Trying to get a tight grouping having ran around the ranges for an hour with an SLR above the head was nigh on impossible. Lying in the prone position and worrying about whether or not the instructor would provide a boot between the legs.
Nowadays, the woke bearded RAF Regt instructor, with a chest full of Campaign medals, would dare to provide coaching on how best to fire my glock.
Ironically, I’m doing near enough the same job now as I did years ago except, rather than doing it on the Inner German Border, I do it at 30000 ft.
Wokeness, I don’t see it but I’m happy to be proved otherwise by someone who might actually know.
34 years ago a trip to the range was met with dread. The inevitable inspection after getting off the bus when someone had an errant hair on the chin or a spot on the mess tin. Trying to get a tight grouping having ran around the ranges for an hour with an SLR above the head was nigh on impossible. Lying in the prone position and worrying about whether or not the instructor would provide a boot between the legs.
Nowadays, the woke bearded RAF Regt instructor, with a chest full of Campaign medals, would dare to provide coaching on how best to fire my glock.
Ironically, I’m doing near enough the same job now as I did years ago except, rather than doing it on the Inner German Border, I do it at 30000 ft.
Wokeness, I don’t see it but I’m happy to be proved otherwise by someone who might actually know.
I noticed the insidious mould of 'wokery' creeping into the Service in my last couple of years: the disengagement from Herrick in 2014 seemed to give carte blanche to every snowflake with an -ism to get on every trendy hobby horse going.
From militant gay and transsexual shop stewards in uniform, to the genderblind OJARs, to the huge sums of money spent on making certain roles open to a tiny proportion of women who passed a lowered standard.
Not all serving and recently-served people agree that the RAF is heading in the right direction.
absolutely depends on the person, matters not if they served in the ranks or were direct entrants it comes down to the individual whatever their background
Last edited by Q-SKI; 18th Jun 2021 at 23:10. Reason: Typo
Just out of curiosity, but do Branch Commissions still exist?
I left as a Chief Tech. in 1986 at my 22 year point but, about 4 years before I left, I was asked if I would like to consider a Branch Commission. The deal was that I had to stay until 55 with Flt/Lt as the ceiling. The chosen few sometimes made Sqn/Ldr.
I didn't follow it up as I planned to go anyway and being stuck with O i/c Radar Bay or a Sqn. J.Eng.O for 15 years didn't inspire me.
I left as a Chief Tech. in 1986 at my 22 year point but, about 4 years before I left, I was asked if I would like to consider a Branch Commission. The deal was that I had to stay until 55 with Flt/Lt as the ceiling. The chosen few sometimes made Sqn/Ldr.
I didn't follow it up as I planned to go anyway and being stuck with O i/c Radar Bay or a Sqn. J.Eng.O for 15 years didn't inspire me.
I wish I'd spent 3 years in the ranks - the reason being I was commissioned 2 weeks before my 18th birthday and none of my service from then till my 21st birthday counts as pensionable service. If I had been in the ranks all service from 18 would have counted. I have never seen the justice in that, but that's the way it is.
One would bally well hope not! I mean, it was bad enough when the hallowed towers of Cranwell admitted those frightful bounders who would otherwise have attended that wretched secondary modern place in Bedfordshire. Simply ghastly....
(No, of course I'm not being serious)
(No, of course I'm not being serious)
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I was asked if I would like to consider a Branch Commission. The deal was that I had to stay until 55 with Flt/Lt as the ceiling.
Just out of curiosity, but do Branch Commissions still exist?
I left as a Chief Tech. in 1986 at my 22 year point but, about 4 years before I left, I was asked if I would like to consider a Branch Commission. The deal was that I had to stay until 55 with Flt/Lt as the ceiling. The chosen few sometimes made Sqn/Ldr..
I left as a Chief Tech. in 1986 at my 22 year point but, about 4 years before I left, I was asked if I would like to consider a Branch Commission. The deal was that I had to stay until 55 with Flt/Lt as the ceiling. The chosen few sometimes made Sqn/Ldr..
I did just under 2 years as an OS and AB before being picked up for officer training. To be completely honest the most useful part of the experience was the fact that as an officer I was wise to all the scams and tricks the plugs, problem children, Fu*kups, sick bay rangers etc; used. Those guys and gals are maybe 10 % of the people you are responsible for, but generate 90 % of your work. Most were use to treating junior officers like mushrooms, but they quickly found that did not work for me. Funny enough a significant number of that lot started asking for transfers, a process I did not discourage....
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My brother was interested in electronics at school, so he joined up as an apprentice, did 10 years in the ranks and then made it through to Wing Commander. All I was interested in was flying so no apprenticeship.
Not military, but in civilian life one of the engineers I worked with started his working life as a shearer before becoming a technical assistant - almost the lowest of the low, just above clerical assistant. When he saw how much better it was to be an engineer, he did his Matric at night & topped the state in maths, then went to uni and did a M. Eng.
As BPF says, he was wise to all the scams, but he also knew when counselling and mentorship rather than discipline was called for. Also, some senior engineers realised that it was wise to listen to him, especially when it came to dealing with farmers. (We were in the water industry.)
But, as others have said, it depends entirely on the person. I reckon if he'd gone straight from High School to uni he'd still be the much same person.
As BPF says, he was wise to all the scams, but he also knew when counselling and mentorship rather than discipline was called for. Also, some senior engineers realised that it was wise to listen to him, especially when it came to dealing with farmers. (We were in the water industry.)
But, as others have said, it depends entirely on the person. I reckon if he'd gone straight from High School to uni he'd still be the much same person.
I worked with several Branch Officers and they were the 'salt of the earth'. As a junior officer they helped and guided me and steered me clear of some potentially ghastly mistakes. When I reached wg cdr and went 'out of branch' in a big way and found myself in a war, I knew I could turn to them and would get the true unvarnished picture, coupled - if necessary - with a: 'I wouldn't advise that Sir' and a knowing smile.
When the unpleasantness was over, I tried get due reward with an MBE for one of them but was unsuccessful, which I viewed as a great shame.
Old Duffer
When the unpleasantness was over, I tried get due reward with an MBE for one of them but was unsuccessful, which I viewed as a great shame.
Old Duffer
I saw both ends of the Branchy spectrum
In the early 70's we had a Sqn Ldr Eng at Cottesnore who was a miserable old git and I think almost universally disliked.
In the late 70's at RAF Brandy we had a younger Sqn Ldr Eng who was excellent and universally liked and respected for his manner and knowledge.
Both I believe were ex Brats.
One of my oldest RAF friends (also ex Brat) ended up as a Branchy Engo but unfortunately turned out to be a lying,cheating extremely untrustworthy character (but that is another story).
So yes - very much depends on the individual concerned.
In the early 70's we had a Sqn Ldr Eng at Cottesnore who was a miserable old git and I think almost universally disliked.
In the late 70's at RAF Brandy we had a younger Sqn Ldr Eng who was excellent and universally liked and respected for his manner and knowledge.
Both I believe were ex Brats.
One of my oldest RAF friends (also ex Brat) ended up as a Branchy Engo but unfortunately turned out to be a lying,cheating extremely untrustworthy character (but that is another story).
So yes - very much depends on the individual concerned.
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I was a Sgt when I left the RAF. I have one medal with a clasp. I also have one from Telic where I heard a colleague die, while I was trying to find out of the safety of the men of my command. Have you ever done that? Please tell me that you have been in that place? If you have, I may listen to you. I suspect you cannot answer.
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During a conversation with my SEngO about the merits of going to Biggin Hill he gave me encouragement with the sage words: when the shit hits the fan, the officers get the best bit.
I did go but failed, evidently I couldn't put myself in an unreal situation, but do come back for another go. That was enough for me as I knew I would be found out at Cranwell - I just didn't have that burning desire to be an officer. Family pressure had a part to play, an uncle a retired SL and a cousin married to a 1 star RN officer, me just a sgt.
Years later it was suggested I go the commissioned WO route but the family was well settled and I had the dream job as a squadron WO, so no thanks.
Talking of being found out at Cranwell, I had a friend in the air cadets who wanted to be a pilot. During my boy entrant training we met, he had made it to Cranwell and was on his way to fulfil his dream. When I'm a pilot he told me, I'll give my helmet to an erk and tell him to paint on it my design, it might even be you! Some friend.
Months later we met again and I asked how things went at Cranwell, oh I left, he said, they were teaching things I did at school so it was a waste of time. Yes, Cranwell will find you out.
I did go but failed, evidently I couldn't put myself in an unreal situation, but do come back for another go. That was enough for me as I knew I would be found out at Cranwell - I just didn't have that burning desire to be an officer. Family pressure had a part to play, an uncle a retired SL and a cousin married to a 1 star RN officer, me just a sgt.
Years later it was suggested I go the commissioned WO route but the family was well settled and I had the dream job as a squadron WO, so no thanks.
Talking of being found out at Cranwell, I had a friend in the air cadets who wanted to be a pilot. During my boy entrant training we met, he had made it to Cranwell and was on his way to fulfil his dream. When I'm a pilot he told me, I'll give my helmet to an erk and tell him to paint on it my design, it might even be you! Some friend.
Months later we met again and I asked how things went at Cranwell, oh I left, he said, they were teaching things I did at school so it was a waste of time. Yes, Cranwell will find you out.
