Engineers please help.

[Rigger1]

Dear Fellow Aircraft Engineer,

I am writing a paper on 'Violations carried out by aircraft engineers' as part of doing an MSC in Human Factors, and wondered if you would please help me.

I am looking for engineers to tell me about when they deveated from the rules / procedures and think about why they did it. Most of us do violate, or cut the odd corner to try and get the aircraft out on time, and we do it for what we believe are the right reasons.

I am looking for examples from both civilian and military engineering, and I would like to know:

What you did and more importantly why you did it? Think about the normal Human Factors type things, time pressure, lack of manpower etc but can you also think deeper about why you did it from a personal point of view. If you have been threatened with ‘the door’, if the aircraft wasn’t ready, do you honestly think that would happen, have you been directly threatened with the sack if you don’t get it done. Do you think the management / supervisors want you to cut corners, have you been encouraged to, were you thanked for doing it, what motivates you to do this even though you know deep down that it is against the rules etc.


What i don't want to know:

Names, Datees, Times, Companies, Locations etc. This is for an academic paper not an industry witch hunt.


I appreciate that this seems like a lot to ask, and if you could only spend 5 minutes jotting something down I will still be grateful.

If you could please PM me with anything that may help.


Thanks.

[NutLoose]

Civilian wise we have a similar system and they send out a small booklet every month or so, pperhaps you could get one sent to you, see

CHIRP

[Rigger1]

Thanks,

I've got the Chirp stuff, I'm trying to see why we do it from a motivational point of view, what people really think about when they stray from the prcedures, do we even think about it at all because its that copmmon, does it not trouble us??



Thanks again.

[Krueger Flap]

HFORs

You may have thought of this already - but you could try to get hold of some Human Factors Occurrence Reports. I've never done one myself but I suspect the Aviation Safety Group could help you out. Also Aviate magazine also has articles on FS occurrences, many of which have a HF element.

[Rigger1]

Thanks for the suggestion, I know about the vast majority of HF examples, having studied HF in depth but I’m trying to get deeper into why we deviate, and do we really think about it, I know sometimes I didn’t even think about it on certain tasks it became that much of a ‘norm’.

Thanks again.

[minigundiplomat]

an academic ‘paper’ on Violations carried out by aircraft engineers

Be careful how you phrase the question, you may not get the answer your looking for

[Irish Tempest]

RAF vs RN FAA Engineers

Hmmm, this one is quite interesting. From what i've heard, (and witnessed at first hand), RAF JENGOs can and are overruled by some senior RAF Aircrew who tell 'junior sprog' 'they know better than them and to sign the 'bloody book''. This does not happen in the RN as it appears there is a lot more respect for and faith in their Engineering Officers.

A weak JENGO will give in a strong one won't.

RN Engineering Officers are given CoFC's - RAF aren't.

There is also an issue with who signs who's OJAR report in the RAF Sqn Engineering Fraterity. I'm interested to hear what others may think?

IT

[Rigger1]

Be careful how you phrase the question, you may not get the answer your looking for

Thanks - tweaked.

[Pontius Navigator]

Originally Posted by Irish Tempest

Hmmm, this one is quite interesting. From what i've heard, (and witnessed at first hand), RAF JENGOs can and are overruled by some senior RAF Aircrew who tell 'junior sprog' 'they know better than them and to sign the 'bloody book''.

IT, is it possible you have witnessed the experience graduation between a JEngO who wants to clear the aircraft as FMC and Aircrew who know that the aircraft is sufficiently mission capable?

I have certainly had it the other way where the aircraft is limited and not FMC but has been allocated for a mission for which it is not fully serviceable. Then we have faced up to the SEngO and refused to take the aircraft for a limited mission which did not meet our training needs.

PS:

Remember the engineer certifies it as fit for someone's life. Aircrew will accept it for their life.

[johnny99]

"There is also an issue with who signs who's OJAR report in the RAF Sqn Engineering Fraterity."


Is there - I'm not sure and can't say I ever experienced any "issue". My OJAR was always written and signed by my Boss - i.e the guy I worked for and who set the task! Remember as engineers we normally experience only 2 tours in a career on a flying squadron ( 1x JEngo and for some 1 x SEngO). JEngO's 1st RO would be SEngO while SEngO's 1st RO would be Sqn boss - some provision if requierd for OC Eng Wg to make input either in consultation on 1st narrative or as 2nd RO. Outside that the author of the OJAR may be of a different branch, service or even nationality(as in force) - if very unluky he may even be a civilian! When all is said and done I've never had an issue with whom authored my report just so long as it was accurate. You could even argue that an officer's potential is better reflected by a series of reports written by a variety of "different branches". Anyway just my thoughts - some may have a different take based on their experience.