Moaner needs a rebrief
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Moaner needs a rebrief
Anyone got a Malton phone directory?
This guy needs a re-brief. First couple of replies are spot-on
Curb these ?boy racers of the sky? (From York Press)
Ray
This guy needs a re-brief. First couple of replies are spot-on
Curb these ?boy racers of the sky? (From York Press)
Ray
Join Date: Feb 2003
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If this pratt lives where the article says he does then he gets only a little noise polution from Linton. If he would like to move into the city - York, maybe - he could avoid the noise of low-level training.
The time for him to complain is if he sees red stars under the wings or Gordon Brown elected president.
The time for him to complain is if he sees red stars under the wings or Gordon Brown elected president.
I live under a Linton training route and on some days can get around 10 a/c a day going directly over my house. King Airs, the usual array of Harriers, Hawks and Typhoons are not uncommon, the very occasional Nimrod and even a Canberra once, not to mention the regular rotary traffic at a nearby Army base.
Have to say, I'm most perturbed about the negative effect it's had on me: I've only gone off and signed up for 18 yrs service
To whom can I complain?
Have to say, I'm most perturbed about the negative effect it's had on me: I've only gone off and signed up for 18 yrs service
To whom can I complain?
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Sorry if I'm about to upset anyone, but the chap in question is perfectly entitled to his view on this subject. His freedom of self expression is what I used to, and many of you folks do for a living to uphold.
BUT, I did note that he made several points, but did not back them up with any reasoning. If we take the Tucano training issue for example, how did he come to the conclusion that the current level of training should be reduced. What level it should be reduced to, he did not say, or how he came to that conclusion (yes, I know he didn't say, because is just talking out of his a*s, but at least he is being honest)
My favorite part of his letter is that he STUDIED (i.e. practiced) environmental law to be able to come to his conclusion about the RAF's level of accountability.
What an odd concept: To have to study or practice something in order to be competent. Dare I say that if he had studied much more, say five days a week for hours on end, then he would be much more knowledgeable and ready to get his facts right first time
BUT, I did note that he made several points, but did not back them up with any reasoning. If we take the Tucano training issue for example, how did he come to the conclusion that the current level of training should be reduced. What level it should be reduced to, he did not say, or how he came to that conclusion (yes, I know he didn't say, because is just talking out of his a*s, but at least he is being honest)
My favorite part of his letter is that he STUDIED (i.e. practiced) environmental law to be able to come to his conclusion about the RAF's level of accountability.
What an odd concept: To have to study or practice something in order to be competent. Dare I say that if he had studied much more, say five days a week for hours on end, then he would be much more knowledgeable and ready to get his facts right first time
Flying in the Vale of York will have fallen by a huge amount during the time he's lived in Malton. There's even a lot less Tucano flying now than when I went through just a handful of years ago, so training has been reduced; a fall in IPS took care of that for him!
What annoys me about this is that there's never any sort of reasoned, pleasant explanation from the MoD to letters like this. While I appreciate we can't have people sitting around scanning for letters to reply to in main building, surely the Linton CCO could take 10 minutes out from visiting Sikh temples to respond to this?
It'd be nice to see someone explain why it's required, and point out some of the inaccuracies. Explain why we can't low fly over the sea. Explain how we try to keep aerobatics away from built up areas. Explain why a low level aeros display practice is very different from some student aeros at 5000ft, and that's exactly why display practices are practiced where they are.
People like this get angry, people like us get angry with our hyperbolic "at least they're not German!" responses, and no-one actually explains anything.
What annoys me about this is that there's never any sort of reasoned, pleasant explanation from the MoD to letters like this. While I appreciate we can't have people sitting around scanning for letters to reply to in main building, surely the Linton CCO could take 10 minutes out from visiting Sikh temples to respond to this?
It'd be nice to see someone explain why it's required, and point out some of the inaccuracies. Explain why we can't low fly over the sea. Explain how we try to keep aerobatics away from built up areas. Explain why a low level aeros display practice is very different from some student aeros at 5000ft, and that's exactly why display practices are practiced where they are.
People like this get angry, people like us get angry with our hyperbolic "at least they're not German!" responses, and no-one actually explains anything.
I agree Barnstormer.
Abusing someone because they are stating their case just ensures he keeps at it.
Taking the time to meet him and understand his concerns and address where appropriate together with ensuring that even a small change to route if appropriate can make a huge difference because he will feel
1.) they listened
2.) took my concerns seriously but explained themselves
3.) acted professionally in trying to minimise disruption
Doing it gets them supportive.
About 10 years ago was visiting a GP friend who lived on outskirts of Telford in semi rural area where house was on a training circuit for Shawbury, one afternoon one copter kept coming lower and lower hovering including hovering over garden and annoying the hell out of the dogs, probably a bit of taking the P*** as well.
A call to Shawbury got straight to Sqdn Leader who indicated no way would it be lower than 1500 and it wouldn't hover over a house, friend walked outside with cordless phone and heard an oh s^^^ in background and an apology as he would handle it. Copter disappeared quickly for no doubt some choice words.
That evening a visit from Shawbury apologising for what happened and he got updated with info that around house was a shoot where at certain times lots of birds lying with potential consequences for a low flyer and number for farmer so Shawbury could avoid nasty shocks. They were unaware and appreciated the update.
Friend had lots of good contacts but was at a charity dinner where editor of local rag and local MP were there and story got told about how professional and polite the response had been and a willingness to listen. It was well received.
Better to engage than abuse as you turn negative to positive very quickly and people will remember.
Abusing someone because they are stating their case just ensures he keeps at it.
Taking the time to meet him and understand his concerns and address where appropriate together with ensuring that even a small change to route if appropriate can make a huge difference because he will feel
1.) they listened
2.) took my concerns seriously but explained themselves
3.) acted professionally in trying to minimise disruption
Doing it gets them supportive.
About 10 years ago was visiting a GP friend who lived on outskirts of Telford in semi rural area where house was on a training circuit for Shawbury, one afternoon one copter kept coming lower and lower hovering including hovering over garden and annoying the hell out of the dogs, probably a bit of taking the P*** as well.
A call to Shawbury got straight to Sqdn Leader who indicated no way would it be lower than 1500 and it wouldn't hover over a house, friend walked outside with cordless phone and heard an oh s^^^ in background and an apology as he would handle it. Copter disappeared quickly for no doubt some choice words.
That evening a visit from Shawbury apologising for what happened and he got updated with info that around house was a shoot where at certain times lots of birds lying with potential consequences for a low flyer and number for farmer so Shawbury could avoid nasty shocks. They were unaware and appreciated the update.
Friend had lots of good contacts but was at a charity dinner where editor of local rag and local MP were there and story got told about how professional and polite the response had been and a willingness to listen. It was well received.
Better to engage than abuse as you turn negative to positive very quickly and people will remember.
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Hopefully , he would listen to a reasoned argument and an explanation as to why this training has to be carried out, but has he asked, has he contacted Linton’s CRO (or whatever their called this week), or has he just written to the newspaper with a very bias view .. “dangerous aerobatics”, “If this is the RAF’s idea of training”, ““boy racers of the sky”, “All aspects of flying/training be more strictly regulated.”
It seems to me that he has already made up his mind that the RAF is unregulated and full of youngsters who can just swan off for a bit of aeros practice with their mates whenever they feel like it, sorry but, people like this aren’t worth educating. He’s able to study law but not to write to Linton, just subject him to more jet noise and let’s hope he moves to somewhere where he won’t get those awful noisy aeroplanes, like the middle of a big city where it’s nice a quiet.
It seems to me that he has already made up his mind that the RAF is unregulated and full of youngsters who can just swan off for a bit of aeros practice with their mates whenever they feel like it, sorry but, people like this aren’t worth educating. He’s able to study law but not to write to Linton, just subject him to more jet noise and let’s hope he moves to somewhere where he won’t get those awful noisy aeroplanes, like the middle of a big city where it’s nice a quiet.
