Pablo Mason loses unfair dismissal case
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I have not been in the military and I am not a commercial pilot, but I would like to make a couple of points;
The aggression displayed here is what you would want and expect from military pilots, together with a will to win at all costs. I know that I couldn't do it. I salute you all.
The PM issue has nothing to do with him being a pilot. It is purely an employment issue. He was dismissed for breaking a rule and took it to an Employment Tribunal and lost.
The aggression displayed here is what you would want and expect from military pilots, together with a will to win at all costs. I know that I couldn't do it. I salute you all.
The PM issue has nothing to do with him being a pilot. It is purely an employment issue. He was dismissed for breaking a rule and took it to an Employment Tribunal and lost.
Foldie, it is often difficult to hold back when endlessly needled by some of the irritating people on this site - with whom you probably would never have shared a crewroom nor would want to....
Your post was most noble.
It is high time that the attention of 't management should be brought to the fact that the puerile jibes of a few are utterly ruining this site - long term posters of bygone years have simply had enough and have stopped posting as a result.
Your post was most noble.
It is high time that the attention of 't management should be brought to the fact that the puerile jibes of a few are utterly ruining this site - long term posters of bygone years have simply had enough and have stopped posting as a result.
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For an outsiders view of JN......
John interviewed me a few times when I was displaying over a 5 year period. He was always polite, humble and at pains to make the piece about you and your machine and not himself.
He would then usually do his RAFA stint at given airshow and attend the party that evening.
Sadly I used to see John getting a hard time at said parties at times, all I can say is that in my dealings with him he was nothing but a positive role model for the RAF, remember, little Jonny and his sister Julie at an airshow arent interested in correct switch making, ordnance dropping etc etc, he just wants to talk to aircrew. (Or Ex aircrew!)
I will end with 2 points;
1. To expect John to correct someone every time they call him a pilot is ridiculous, it would continually break the cadence of interviews. If a civilian sees or knows of someone getting out of the cockpit of a Mil AC he is a pilot to them, end of.
2. I am not related to John at all!
John interviewed me a few times when I was displaying over a 5 year period. He was always polite, humble and at pains to make the piece about you and your machine and not himself.
He would then usually do his RAFA stint at given airshow and attend the party that evening.
Sadly I used to see John getting a hard time at said parties at times, all I can say is that in my dealings with him he was nothing but a positive role model for the RAF, remember, little Jonny and his sister Julie at an airshow arent interested in correct switch making, ordnance dropping etc etc, he just wants to talk to aircrew. (Or Ex aircrew!)
I will end with 2 points;
1. To expect John to correct someone every time they call him a pilot is ridiculous, it would continually break the cadence of interviews. If a civilian sees or knows of someone getting out of the cockpit of a Mil AC he is a pilot to them, end of.
2. I am not related to John at all!
Dear Dave - many thanks for your apology, it is appreciated and accepted. I also greatly appreciate the fact that you have taken a considerable risk in outing yourself along with Jerry. That was a very honourable thing to do.
Incidentally, I've now been pointed to a number of websites with details of your good self and just seen a photo of you on Facebook (never got into it myself). Although we are all older and greyer, I think I recognise you now - I seem to remember you were on Red Flag just prior to GW1 as a Group observer? If I am correct, I remember you as being jolly approachable, and friendly to me (the most junior shag on the Sqn).
I've even gone through some old photos and I think you appear in a few - most notably at The Elephant Bar and the 'O' Club during the lingerie party. Those were the days, pre-Tailhook! If I've mis-idented you, my sincere apologies - PM and I'll delete. My point is that I acknowledge your undoubted experience in the FJ world.
To that end, I would welcome the chance to discuss (in private) with you the notion that in some way, my possible (nay probable) switchology over Al Rumaylah in Jan 1991 had something to do with a presumed SAM 14 strike some time later. I will gladly PM you my phone number so we can chat - Not because I want to continue a punch-up, but because I am genuinely bemused by the claim.
Roger S - you accuse me of being pompous for asking 3 anonymous posters to justify themselves and their claims. At the risk of repeating myself, I did not start this spat - and I agree that those of us in the public eye have to take the bricks, I fundamentally disagree with the notion that we should not call to account those who throw them inaccurately on anonymous forums with little thought of the fall out.
So my offer goes to you too - you claim to have extensive knowledge of the demise of JP and myself and the subsequent unpleasantness we endured:
"It is difficult being aware of behind the scene information and being unable to air it....lets just say there is no smoke without fire,....tis a good job it doesn't all come out then"
You perpetuate the same rumour started by a 1 Star many years ago after my first novel was published (long story involving an "off the record" briefing to 2 journalists, one of whom ran the story with said 1 Star's name attached) and subsequently withdrawn with an apology.
I understand some around here have difficulty in giving up their anonymity, but I would welcome the chance of talking to you so you can explain your background and, again in private, how my actions led to the loss of our aircraft and incarceration. You have my word that I will never make your identity public, nor, if you want, your thoughts on the issue. Please PM me if you'd like my number.
Incidentally, I've now been pointed to a number of websites with details of your good self and just seen a photo of you on Facebook (never got into it myself). Although we are all older and greyer, I think I recognise you now - I seem to remember you were on Red Flag just prior to GW1 as a Group observer? If I am correct, I remember you as being jolly approachable, and friendly to me (the most junior shag on the Sqn).
I've even gone through some old photos and I think you appear in a few - most notably at The Elephant Bar and the 'O' Club during the lingerie party. Those were the days, pre-Tailhook! If I've mis-idented you, my sincere apologies - PM and I'll delete. My point is that I acknowledge your undoubted experience in the FJ world.
To that end, I would welcome the chance to discuss (in private) with you the notion that in some way, my possible (nay probable) switchology over Al Rumaylah in Jan 1991 had something to do with a presumed SAM 14 strike some time later. I will gladly PM you my phone number so we can chat - Not because I want to continue a punch-up, but because I am genuinely bemused by the claim.
Roger S - you accuse me of being pompous for asking 3 anonymous posters to justify themselves and their claims. At the risk of repeating myself, I did not start this spat - and I agree that those of us in the public eye have to take the bricks, I fundamentally disagree with the notion that we should not call to account those who throw them inaccurately on anonymous forums with little thought of the fall out.
So my offer goes to you too - you claim to have extensive knowledge of the demise of JP and myself and the subsequent unpleasantness we endured:
"It is difficult being aware of behind the scene information and being unable to air it....lets just say there is no smoke without fire,....tis a good job it doesn't all come out then"
You perpetuate the same rumour started by a 1 Star many years ago after my first novel was published (long story involving an "off the record" briefing to 2 journalists, one of whom ran the story with said 1 Star's name attached) and subsequently withdrawn with an apology.
I understand some around here have difficulty in giving up their anonymity, but I would welcome the chance of talking to you so you can explain your background and, again in private, how my actions led to the loss of our aircraft and incarceration. You have my word that I will never make your identity public, nor, if you want, your thoughts on the issue. Please PM me if you'd like my number.
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Well I don't know about "mud-movers", after wading through this thread the term "mud-slingers" comes to mind more readily. As an ex-RAF JNCO I don't know why I should be surprised or disappointed, but still I find that I am.
At a time when the armed forces require public support and understanding this is not, in my opinion at least, the kind of thing that really needs to be appearing on a public forum. Officers and Gentlemen.... I am afraid that in the case of some of the individuals contributing to this thread they seem to have forgotten the second part of that phrase.
At a time when the armed forces require public support and understanding this is not, in my opinion at least, the kind of thing that really needs to be appearing on a public forum. Officers and Gentlemen.... I am afraid that in the case of some of the individuals contributing to this thread they seem to have forgotten the second part of that phrase.
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Well said Dual Ground.
As a retired Pongo with strong family RAF connections, I have been following this thread with mounting incredulity and, I must say, growing embarrassment. What an unedifying spectacle, to observe professional service aviators, most of them presumably officers, indulge in personal and very public slander of fellow officers. Shame on you. You dishonour yourselves and the profession.
A redeeming element in this sordid spat is the dignified, balanced and articulate replies from JN in response to the scurrilous, irrelevant (to this thread) and mean-minded attacks that were launched on his character and integrity. And for Roger Sofarover to tell him to “back down” and to describe his input as “incendiary” and “pompous” just leaves me speechless. Which, having expressed my disgust, I shall now be.
As a retired Pongo with strong family RAF connections, I have been following this thread with mounting incredulity and, I must say, growing embarrassment. What an unedifying spectacle, to observe professional service aviators, most of them presumably officers, indulge in personal and very public slander of fellow officers. Shame on you. You dishonour yourselves and the profession.
A redeeming element in this sordid spat is the dignified, balanced and articulate replies from JN in response to the scurrilous, irrelevant (to this thread) and mean-minded attacks that were launched on his character and integrity. And for Roger Sofarover to tell him to “back down” and to describe his input as “incendiary” and “pompous” just leaves me speechless. Which, having expressed my disgust, I shall now be.
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Clockwork Mouse
Although it doesn't make it any more acceptable, I believe that almost all of the unpleasantness aimed at John Nichol (and a large % of the PM stuff too) has been vented by retired RAF folk.
It doesn't make it right, but it does put a different perspective on it.
PS This is the second time I've agreed with you, I must stop making a habit of this!
Although it doesn't make it any more acceptable, I believe that almost all of the unpleasantness aimed at John Nichol (and a large % of the PM stuff too) has been vented by retired RAF folk.
It doesn't make it right, but it does put a different perspective on it.
PS This is the second time I've agreed with you, I must stop making a habit of this!
Roger - well now I'm really confused - I truly have no idea what you are talking about, or what you are trying to infer! It really is too easy to make these vague and anonymous jibes without ever having to justify them.
But my offer stands, take my private number and give me a call so we can discuss in private.
best to you and yours,
JN
But my offer stands, take my private number and give me a call so we can discuss in private.
best to you and yours,
JN
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Reiminds me of the Jane Goody story..........it just goes on and on and on and on....... 
Rules are there to be adhered too, not broken, Fraid it was Broken, so in my opinion the right result was taken and he did not have a leg to stand on..
It's not a one rule for one and another for another in the Civil way of things I am afraid these days. And quite rightly too.
Rules are there to be adhered too, not broken, Fraid it was Broken, so in my opinion the right result was taken and he did not have a leg to stand on..
It's not a one rule for one and another for another in the Civil way of things I am afraid these days. And quite rightly too.
DeeCee
Aggression in the air is one thing; much of what is in this thread is quite something else.
The aggression displayed here is what you would want and expect from military pilots, together with a will to win at all costs.
Cool Mod
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I have been reading and pondering this thread for the past 1 hour and 25 minutes. Hopefully with a clear head.
Things are being said here that go against some rules of PPRuNe i.e. personal attacks, abuse, outing and much off topic back stabbing. These are good enough reasons by themselves to alert us to take action and I really do think that it is just 'not nice' to hear people of such calibre using PPRuNe for open air fisticuffs.
The question, the original one, about Pablo Mason is over and it serves no further purpose for this subject to continue and the 'case' is closed.
PPP
Things are being said here that go against some rules of PPRuNe i.e. personal attacks, abuse, outing and much off topic back stabbing. These are good enough reasons by themselves to alert us to take action and I really do think that it is just 'not nice' to hear people of such calibre using PPRuNe for open air fisticuffs.
The question, the original one, about Pablo Mason is over and it serves no further purpose for this subject to continue and the 'case' is closed.
PPP
