St Athan Grob Aircraft Crash In Wales
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 116
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thankyou for that Pop I will now join the thread.
My condolences and best wishes to all those who lost loved ones last week.
Thankyou to all those in the ACO who continued flying over the last few days, providing the Cadets with the aviating that they joined up for.
My condolences and best wishes to all those who lost loved ones last week.
Thankyou to all those in the ACO who continued flying over the last few days, providing the Cadets with the aviating that they joined up for.
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Wset Wales
Age: 70
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hylton
Hylton’s funeral arrangements are as follows:
Thursday 26 February 2009 at 1315
Coychurch Crematorium, Bridgend – Off Junction 35, M4. Does anyone need a map or navigator??! See:
http://www.bridgend.gov.uk/web/groups/public/documents/services/002156.hcsp
And afterwards at Coed-y-Mwstwr Hotel, Coychurch, Bridgend
See: http://www.coed-y-mwstwr.com/coed.php
Contact [email protected] to advise attendance please.
Thursday 26 February 2009 at 1315
Coychurch Crematorium, Bridgend – Off Junction 35, M4. Does anyone need a map or navigator??! See:
http://www.bridgend.gov.uk/web/groups/public/documents/services/002156.hcsp
And afterwards at Coed-y-Mwstwr Hotel, Coychurch, Bridgend
See: http://www.coed-y-mwstwr.com/coed.php
Contact [email protected] to advise attendance please.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: York
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hylton
I have fond memories of Hylton during 3 years on 14 Squadron at Bruggen. As OC ‘A’ Flight, Hylton was a rock, a total professional and an ideal mentor and role model for a generation of youngsters finding their way in the very finest of Air Forces. Hylton’s influence on those around him on the Tornado, and earlier on the Phantom and as a Tactics Instructor on the Hawk, influenced a generation of young aviators and the worth of his contribution has been demonstrated over and over again in 2 Gulf Wars, in the Balkans and in Afghanistan. In his voluntary work at St Athan he was continuing to pass on his enthusiasm and wisdom to a new generation of youngsters. His is a very, very sad loss. I will be unable to say farewell personally on Thursday but will raise a glass in memory.
Condolences to all the families and friends involved in this tragic accident.
Condolences to all the families and friends involved in this tragic accident.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Earth
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ministry of Defence Board of Inquiry report into a mid-air collision which killed two pilots and two Air Training Corps cadets is set to be released.
The MoD Board of Inquiry is expected to be released in a House of Commons statement.
The MoD Board of Inquiry is expected to be released in a House of Commons statement.
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 5,197
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Inquest verdict
BBC News - Warning system 'may have prevented' Bridgend air crash
WalesOnline
Make allowance for the usual journalistic habits. I am reliably informed that the Coroner acknowledged that similar accidents may occur even if aircraft have collision warning systems. He made no criticism whatsoever of either the RAF or the pilots concerned and pointed out that there were about 35,000 AEF flights amounting to approx 20,000 flying hours last year alone.
Contrary to the unhelpful speculation of some 'aviation experts' found by the press at the time of the accident, the two aircraft were on converging paths - not flying close together before the collision.
As a result of the accident, the RAF decided to equip its Grobs with collision warning systems. No bad thing, but arguably OTT after a fluke accident. Very few civvy light aircraft have got them.
BBC News - Warning system 'may have prevented' Bridgend air crash
WalesOnline
Make allowance for the usual journalistic habits. I am reliably informed that the Coroner acknowledged that similar accidents may occur even if aircraft have collision warning systems. He made no criticism whatsoever of either the RAF or the pilots concerned and pointed out that there were about 35,000 AEF flights amounting to approx 20,000 flying hours last year alone.
Contrary to the unhelpful speculation of some 'aviation experts' found by the press at the time of the accident, the two aircraft were on converging paths - not flying close together before the collision.
As a result of the accident, the RAF decided to equip its Grobs with collision warning systems. No bad thing, but arguably OTT after a fluke accident. Very few civvy light aircraft have got them.
Gentleman Aviator
As a result of the accident, the RAF decided to equip its Grobs with collision warning systems. No bad thing, but arguably OTT after a fluke accident. Very few civvy light aircraft have got them.
Whilst the very basic warning system envisaged (and I believe very imminent) may have prevented this one, the majority of GA are not so-equipped. We ain't talking TCAS here - "see and avoid" will always be the best ( maybe last, often only in Class G) line of defence.
And even if it has "only" reduced the chances from one in ten million to one in twenty million, then that too is a Good Thing ...
..... after all, how many of us buy lottery tickets for a 14 mill to one chance ....
A sokesman for the family, an uncle, actually referred to the RAF and Air Cadets (working in partnership) as the best organisation in the world. He seemed to mean the way it gives vent to kids' aspirations, and the resource that is committed. The family's only wish is that if lessons can be learned that can reduce the risks in the future, then they should be.
Very onside to use Teeteringhead's word. Very sad.
CG
Very onside to use Teeteringhead's word. Very sad.
CG
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 45 yards from a tropical beach
Posts: 1,103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In the 70s I spent three years at Linton as a JP QFI, with no collisions during that time. There were many occasions when you knew that there were 50+ jets in the Vale of York, from Linton, Church Fenton, Leeming, Dishforth et al, all doing General Handling or Navexes, when often times you would never see one outside of the circuit!
The nearest we got was one of the mates (Jack D) pulling 6g to avoid two parachutists (who hadn't Notam'd their drop) plopping open in front of him.
The Grob accident was a most unfortunate anomaly.
The nearest we got was one of the mates (Jack D) pulling 6g to avoid two parachutists (who hadn't Notam'd their drop) plopping open in front of him.
The Grob accident was a most unfortunate anomaly.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Lincolnshire
Posts: 543
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lets be honest. It comes down to see and be seen. We've all been close aboard. If you're training hard, life's a risk. Doesn't help for us "puddle jumpers" which is my role in life nowadays.
And Hilton was a good mate and would be the last to criticise.
And Hilton was a good mate and would be the last to criticise.
Given that future aircraft cockpit design is mentioned in the Convening Authority Comments, I would have thought consideration of a ballistic parachute recovery system might have been discussed. A retrofit to the Tutor may be impractical, but for a future AEF aeroplane it would seem the way to go, given the wide size range of cadets, their possible lack of strength and likely lack of experience. The instructor would also not be faced with assisting a possibly injured and probably panic-striken cadet to do a successful bale out before his own.
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: north of barlu
Posts: 6,207
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The traffic waring system will detect any aircraft with a transponder, as most light aircraft have these it will help a lot with the lookout.
In my view it is the best avalable system that is practical to fit in an aircraft of this size.
In my view it is the best avalable system that is practical to fit in an aircraft of this size.
Last edited by A and C; 14th Jan 2011 at 05:31.
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: N/W London
Posts: 169
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gliders have been using a GPS based system called FLARM for a number of years.
More common in Europe than the UK (was developed for use in the Alps) but the take-up amongst UK pilots is increasing and I can thoroughly endorse and recommend it being small and self contained and would be an easy fit to the coaming of the Tutor. Only disadvantage is that it only warns you of other Flarm equipped targets but as a supplement to the Mk 1 eyeball it does what it says on the tin and in the event of an alarm, it gets you looking in the right bit of sky for what it considers to be the highest threat.
More common in Europe than the UK (was developed for use in the Alps) but the take-up amongst UK pilots is increasing and I can thoroughly endorse and recommend it being small and self contained and would be an easy fit to the coaming of the Tutor. Only disadvantage is that it only warns you of other Flarm equipped targets but as a supplement to the Mk 1 eyeball it does what it says on the tin and in the event of an alarm, it gets you looking in the right bit of sky for what it considers to be the highest threat.
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: north of barlu
Posts: 6,207
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FLARM
FLARM is only able to detect other FLARM targets, it is not a a device that meets any TSO and so it requires a lot of work to get it to a standard were it will get a TSO.
If glider pilots has not objected so strongly to Mode S transponders I am sure that we would be much further down the road to ADS-B by now giving a universal traffic warning system for all aviation users.
If glider pilots has not objected so strongly to Mode S transponders I am sure that we would be much further down the road to ADS-B by now giving a universal traffic warning system for all aviation users.
