Harrier dispute between Navy and RAF chiefs sees Army 'marriage counsellor' called in
The Navy run Harrier at 1 Gp?
"Commander R. C. Payne, Royal Navy, to be promoted acting captain and to be Captain Harrier/Jaguar within Headquarters 1 Group in succession to Captain H. S. Brown, MBE, Royal Navy, with effect from June 2009"
Service appointments: Navy - Times Online
And Jags too ( if we had any) according to the appointment
Service appointments: Navy - Times Online
And Jags too ( if we had any) according to the appointment
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In it's current state, the GR4 is not a suitable for the task?
I thought the whole point was that the GR.4 now was thought quite capable of cruising at medium level in Afghanistan and losing off precision guided weapons.
.
I thought the whole point was that the GR.4 now was thought quite capable of cruising at medium level in Afghanistan and losing off precision guided weapons.
.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
PN,
Not sure what you're saying.
Is it that the Tonka guys are worried their desert isn't "hard" enough? Or that some one else thinks what the Tonka is currently doing not "hard" enough?
So do we agree that:
Harrier needs a break?
The only British Military air platform that can be deployed instead of it is the GR4?
Not sure what you're saying.
Is it that the Tonka guys are worried their desert isn't "hard" enough? Or that some one else thinks what the Tonka is currently doing not "hard" enough?
So do we agree that:
Harrier needs a break?
The only British Military air platform that can be deployed instead of it is the GR4?
As for the second bit, that someone else thinks the Tonka is not doing enough, I could not possibly comment except that the use-it or lose-it argument might apply.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
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Harrier Fatigue Consumption
I thought that one of the reasons for the GR5/7/9 having a carbon fibre airframe (apart from weight-saving) was that it was not supposed to suffer "fatigue" in the same way as a tin wing.
MB
MB
There is more to calculating the out of service date than aircraft fatigue. Availability of "obsolete" spares for an aircraft no longer in production (for instance) [and why, when they extended the PR9 they were forced to either rob museum displays or individually craft spare bits].
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
There is more to calculating the out of service date than aircraft fatigue. Availability of "obsolete" spares for an aircraft no longer in production (for instance) [and why, when they extended the PR9 they were forced to either rob museum displays or individually craft spare bits].
A silly one on the Nimrod force was light bulbs. For much of the year the aircraft flew in daylight. Come the winter and all was gloom in the cabin until litterally dozens of pea bulbs etc were changed.
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"Retire honourably after more than 30 years service to the crown" sounds so much nicer though.
It is a shame that this became a "resigning" issue in the first place.
It is a shame that this became a "resigning" issue in the first place.
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Intellectual Capacity!!!!
Afternoon all, seething H-W here 
- have never posted before but felt moved to today!! One of the chaps at the HQ reports strong 'rumour' of a written statement from CAS provided during Army bloke's recent review into Harrier manning that says something like ...."the only RAF officers that have the intellectual capacity to make it to 3* and above are FJ pilots...". If this statement is true I, along with many others (non-FJ pilot gods) who grind along supporting our service, deserve to be "highly disappointed"!!! Anyone else heard 'bout this?? H-W
- have never posted before but felt moved to today!! One of the chaps at the HQ reports strong 'rumour' of a written statement from CAS provided during Army bloke's recent review into Harrier manning that says something like ...."the only RAF officers that have the intellectual capacity to make it to 3* and above are FJ pilots...". If this statement is true I, along with many others (non-FJ pilot gods) who grind along supporting our service, deserve to be "highly disappointed"!!! Anyone else heard 'bout this?? H-W
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This arrogance does more than beggars belief!
I'll state now that I am on no way anti RAF. I grew up as an air force brat and wore blue uniforms as a child and an adult.
Unfortunately, the RAF has no higher purpose than to field aircraft into the sky. This is the raison d'etre of the whole organisation, with every trade solely geared to support or enable that function. Hence, the GD Pilot could be seen as the pinnacle of all career roles.
The selection process sees the FJ types as the top of the tree with everyone else as "almost rans".
If true, this CAS arrogance is only one step away from God-ship in making their successors in their own image.
Only FJ types good enough to be 3 star plus? What horlicks!
There is no need to have the FJ skill set as a pre-requisite to be a highly effective Air officer. There are many officers who (if the system allowed) could rise effectively to the top - admittedly they wouldn't have the badge on the chest but I am sure that they would have the mental wherewithal to refute the CAS's opinion.
As there are on line references to at least two Royal Marines officers who after qualifying as Commandos and leaders of ground combat troops have since qualified as Harrier pilots, then it could be said that the CAS might lack the wraparound 'warfighter' experience of these mates who have clearly demonstrated their intellectual prowess to exceed their Corps ceiling for promotion and take over as potential CAS's in the future.
If true, then he should be birched for denigrating the rest of the service IMO.
I'll state now that I am on no way anti RAF. I grew up as an air force brat and wore blue uniforms as a child and an adult.
Unfortunately, the RAF has no higher purpose than to field aircraft into the sky. This is the raison d'etre of the whole organisation, with every trade solely geared to support or enable that function. Hence, the GD Pilot could be seen as the pinnacle of all career roles.
The selection process sees the FJ types as the top of the tree with everyone else as "almost rans".
If true, this CAS arrogance is only one step away from God-ship in making their successors in their own image.
Only FJ types good enough to be 3 star plus? What horlicks!
There is no need to have the FJ skill set as a pre-requisite to be a highly effective Air officer. There are many officers who (if the system allowed) could rise effectively to the top - admittedly they wouldn't have the badge on the chest but I am sure that they would have the mental wherewithal to refute the CAS's opinion.
As there are on line references to at least two Royal Marines officers who after qualifying as Commandos and leaders of ground combat troops have since qualified as Harrier pilots, then it could be said that the CAS might lack the wraparound 'warfighter' experience of these mates who have clearly demonstrated their intellectual prowess to exceed their Corps ceiling for promotion and take over as potential CAS's in the future.
If true, then he should be birched for denigrating the rest of the service IMO.
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I find it hard to believe that CAS made these ill-judged comments about only FJ Pilots having the capacity for 3* & above, as this hardly squares with AM Peach (is he CJO yet) & the next DCINC Pers both being Navs (albeit FJ), appointments with which he surely had some influence. Also, weren't 2 of the last 3 CINC STC/Air non FJ?
Is this just a case of the RN winning the PR battle? And don't they pick their 4* on the ability to drive ships, when those currently gaining frontline experience are either aircrew, or RM? There was a RM 3* at MoD (& PJHQ immediately before that) who was well respected & I'm told hugely talented, but could never (allegedly) go any higher, to hold either 1SL or VCDS posts, due to his green uniform.
Is this just a case of the RN winning the PR battle? And don't they pick their 4* on the ability to drive ships, when those currently gaining frontline experience are either aircrew, or RM? There was a RM 3* at MoD (& PJHQ immediately before that) who was well respected & I'm told hugely talented, but could never (allegedly) go any higher, to hold either 1SL or VCDS posts, due to his green uniform.
Last edited by NP20; 21st Mar 2009 at 06:06.