First Name Basis or 'Sir'?
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Guided weapons
I don't know which RN you have been in, but first name terms is completely normal airborne in the RN I am familiar with. The only time a crewie calls me sir is when I have pissed him off about something and he is making a point.
I don't know which RN you have been in, but first name terms is completely normal airborne in the RN I am familiar with. The only time a crewie calls me sir is when I have pissed him off about something and he is making a point.
Tourist
Guess you get called Sir a lot then!
Joking aside (honestly), is it true that the individual that is considered the captain on a RN helo is the most senior person (rank wise) on the crew rather than experience and/or seat position? Or is this one of those wonderful RAF BFT urban myths?
Guess you get called Sir a lot then!
Joking aside (honestly), is it true that the individual that is considered the captain on a RN helo is the most senior person (rank wise) on the crew rather than experience and/or seat position? Or is this one of those wonderful RAF BFT urban myths?
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This is strange coming ‘mainly’ from a force that required lowly SO2s to be addressed as Sir on the ground yet call all NCOs by their first name. To say that addressing Officers as sir is ‘anti’ CRM is also bizarre – it is the point of the military. The forces that flew/fly NCOs, who have the capability rather than the rank, seem to manage quite well.
Sounds like an inferiority complex and a lack of self esteem to be even questioning this one. If you are – you are.
Sounds like an inferiority complex and a lack of self esteem to be even questioning this one. If you are – you are.
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Wrathmonk
It is the senior aircrew officer who is normally the aircraft commander. But it really means the most experienced aircrew officer.
Joking aside (honestly), is it true that the individual that is considered the captain on a RN helo is the most senior person (rank wise) on the crew rather than experience and/or seat position? Or is this one of those wonderful RAF BFT urban myths?
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The term 'Sir' should never be used in an aircraft - it only serves to promote 'cross-cockpit gradient' which is the antithesis of CRM.
Never ever had a CRM problem when using the term 'sir'. Even when I'm the trapper and aircraft captain. The gradient always goes in the right direction.....
It's maybe an 'Army thing' but it certainly doesn't break down the team side of life if 'sir' is used. It's not as if we sit to attention or doff our helmet when applying it.
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Unbelievable...........
"Sir, they are calling you on box 1"
"Roger"*
"No Sir, not you Sir, you are on box 2"
"Oh I thought you meant me"
"No Sir, it was for the other Sir in the left Sir"
"Roger"
"Sir, you missed a call when you changed boxes"
"Oh, did anyone else catch it?"
"Yes Sir, don't worry I'm monitoring all three boxes"
"Roger"
(*there is nobody called Roger in this clip from the CVR)
or
"Jim, they are calling you on box 1"
"Thanks"
Continue sortie.....
"Sir, they are calling you on box 1"
"Roger"*
"No Sir, not you Sir, you are on box 2"
"Oh I thought you meant me"
"No Sir, it was for the other Sir in the left Sir"
"Roger"
"Sir, you missed a call when you changed boxes"
"Oh, did anyone else catch it?"
"Yes Sir, don't worry I'm monitoring all three boxes"
"Roger"
(*there is nobody called Roger in this clip from the CVR)
or
"Jim, they are calling you on box 1"
"Thanks"
Continue sortie.....
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Squadron Leader and above( and Trappers )SIR everyone else first or nick names ; I recall this included the best ever QFI Phil Cox.I hope he is still kicking and not got a harp.
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Baston equals Cock....get a life, you are the sort who will die within 5 mins of leaving the service.
I was never commissioned but a Chief Tech for many years, I started work in Manila after leaving and here everyone is insistent on calling bosses Sir, it has taken me 10 months to get my managers to call me by my first name..
Undermine the command structure? in my 29years 118 days we always knew who was in charge.
I was never commissioned but a Chief Tech for many years, I started work in Manila after leaving and here everyone is insistent on calling bosses Sir, it has taken me 10 months to get my managers to call me by my first name..
Undermine the command structure? in my 29years 118 days we always knew who was in charge.
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I do agree with you pigsinspace - It was a bit late at night for me! I apologise to Tourist for being unecessarily rude. Not a clever thing to do on a forum like this. However I stand by my assertion. Its a personal view that served me and most of my friends very well over the years in a variety of roles.
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It is the senior aircrew officer who is normally the aircraft commander. But it really means the most experienced aircrew officer
I wouldn't expect any aircrew of any rank to call me Sir. I wasn't christened "Sir"....thats not my name.
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On a Nimrod I do not recall needing to talk to a trapper on intercom. They were usually just flies on the wall. As for the QFI trapper, you would often find John Elias lounging by the starboard entrance door.
Came close to decking an AEO checker on one sortie. He was the AE Ldr and had nicked my Red Book without telling me. Gave it back at the end of the sortie. If you're reading this I still think yr a cnut Cuddles.
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But surely, it's a Badge of Honour to be attacked by Minigun. And a bar to the badge if AIDU contributes.
Sorry, way off thread and facetious. But.....................
Sorry, way off thread and facetious. But.....................
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Slightly off topic but the great Petty Officer Tidbull at Dartmouth after Wren IO complains about the noise on parade ground, "It's alright for you Ma'am. You've only got one c*nt to look after, I've got 14"
At least he said Ma'am
At least he said Ma'am
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Larger Aircraft
I always thought that the best way on larger crew aircraft was first names when involving conversational non operational/aircraft specific chatter and crew position for the rest ie.
"I'm going on holiday next week"
"Bill did you watch the match yesterday?"
"Ha Ha Jim's just spilt his coffee all over his lap"
all immediately interupted by hearing..
"Captain-Loadie"
"Loadie go ahead"
"Eng I have just noticed..xxx.on the the left engine"
For senior officers would probably end up with "Boss" for chatter but back to crew position for anything important like..
"Nav your round of brews"
"I'm going on holiday next week"
"Bill did you watch the match yesterday?"
"Ha Ha Jim's just spilt his coffee all over his lap"
all immediately interupted by hearing..
"Captain-Loadie"
"Loadie go ahead"
"Eng I have just noticed..xxx.on the the left engine"
For senior officers would probably end up with "Boss" for chatter but back to crew position for anything important like..
"Nav your round of brews"
Then there was the apocryphal story of some crusty old Albert captian who wouldn't even talk to his female navigator.....
Until, that is, they were inbound to some beacon or other. Whereupon it is alleged he just said "Drift.............bitch?"
It was all a wind up though, it seems.
Until, that is, they were inbound to some beacon or other. Whereupon it is alleged he just said "Drift.............bitch?"
It was all a wind up though, it seems.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
He had been off intercom and only plugged back in to hear 'go down'.