Officer vs NCO Bias at OASC?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: winchester
Age: 36
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Officer vs NCO Bias at OASC?
Good day ladies and gentlemen. I was wondering if anyone may be able to assist me with a query I have regarding the OASC. I have just graduated from the University of Southampton with a 2.1 in BSc Oceanography and I am looking to join the RAF as a pilot or a Weapons System Officer. To the best of my knowledge I am fit and meet the entry requirements.
However the attraction of becoming aircrew is great, and I have also applied for Non Commissioned Aircrew - Weapons System Operator. After visits to RAF stations the WSOp role looks very dynamic compared to civilian alternatives. I fully appreciate that the RAF desires one to go to OASC with ambitions of being an ‘officer in the RAF first, specialisation second’.
So my question is this - Would applying for two officer roles and a reserve choice of WSOp put me at a disadvantage at the screening interview and at OASC?
Many thanks for your time
James
However the attraction of becoming aircrew is great, and I have also applied for Non Commissioned Aircrew - Weapons System Operator. After visits to RAF stations the WSOp role looks very dynamic compared to civilian alternatives. I fully appreciate that the RAF desires one to go to OASC with ambitions of being an ‘officer in the RAF first, specialisation second’.
So my question is this - Would applying for two officer roles and a reserve choice of WSOp put me at a disadvantage at the screening interview and at OASC?
Many thanks for your time
James
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Retired to Bisley from the small African nation
Age: 68
Posts: 461
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The big thing to remember about the whole process is that, shorn of the glamour, the Service ethos and the mythlike status of aircrew, it's a job market like any other, albeit with the numbers biased against the applicant. So the selectors want you to succeed - they have quotas to fill - and if you fall into one of the right boxes in the selection process they will be delighted.
The difficulty comes if you score very highly on one of your low choices and acceptably well on your first choice. Now the world may have changed since 1976, but in precisely that circumstance I was offered Engineer (my third choice) and not Pilot (my first choice). It was only after I completed IOT and found that Engineering in the RAF had nothing to do with the engineering wot i had lernt, that some forceful argument and (more importantly) an agreement to take a Permament Commission got me a pilot slot without re-testing (so I must have passed for pilot first time round).
Your best negotiating position is from outside the Service, and you are dealing with highly professional negotiators. If you are offered your last choice, before accepting make sure that they REALLY WILL NOT offer you your higher preferences.
Of course, 32 years on I'm still a Flt Lt, whereas I'm sure the Engineer branch would have found it difficult to keep me below Wg Cdr rank on ability to stay alive. On the other hand as Professional Aviator I get paid more than everybody in blue on the Station except the 6 Aircrew Wg Cdrs and the Stn Cdr, so maybe I made the right call, and it beats working for a living ...
Sven
The difficulty comes if you score very highly on one of your low choices and acceptably well on your first choice. Now the world may have changed since 1976, but in precisely that circumstance I was offered Engineer (my third choice) and not Pilot (my first choice). It was only after I completed IOT and found that Engineering in the RAF had nothing to do with the engineering wot i had lernt, that some forceful argument and (more importantly) an agreement to take a Permament Commission got me a pilot slot without re-testing (so I must have passed for pilot first time round).
Your best negotiating position is from outside the Service, and you are dealing with highly professional negotiators. If you are offered your last choice, before accepting make sure that they REALLY WILL NOT offer you your higher preferences.
Of course, 32 years on I'm still a Flt Lt, whereas I'm sure the Engineer branch would have found it difficult to keep me below Wg Cdr rank on ability to stay alive. On the other hand as Professional Aviator I get paid more than everybody in blue on the Station except the 6 Aircrew Wg Cdrs and the Stn Cdr, so maybe I made the right call, and it beats working for a living ...
Sven
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: A 1/2 World away from Ice Statio Kilo
Posts: 404
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Go for it
Jimmy my boy
Go your hardest at OASC and see what they offer you, if the wheels come off and can be fixed you can always have another go. The Airforce is about pilots flying planes, I have been lucky to ride along on their coat tails as a WSOp and now a WSO type, albeit in the colonial militia, 20 great years and counting. One day in an aircraft dancing amongst the clouds is worth a 100+ filing engineering reports, counting blankets or shuffling paper/e-mails. We do need support staff even if they do become the self licking ice cream monolith, it is just not for me
Good Luck
Go your hardest at OASC and see what they offer you, if the wheels come off and can be fixed you can always have another go. The Airforce is about pilots flying planes, I have been lucky to ride along on their coat tails as a WSOp and now a WSO type, albeit in the colonial militia, 20 great years and counting. One day in an aircraft dancing amongst the clouds is worth a 100+ filing engineering reports, counting blankets or shuffling paper/e-mails. We do need support staff even if they do become the self licking ice cream monolith, it is just not for me
Good Luck
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
The big thing to remember. . . a job market . . . with the numbers biased against the applicant. . . quotas to fill - and if you fall into one of the right boxes in the selection process they will be delighted.
Now the world may have changed since 1976, . . . offered third choice and not first choice.
Now the world may have changed since 1976, . . . offered third choice and not first choice.
So if someone would take Int or bust then they would get Int whereas Int or anything would get Anything. The same would apply in any other branch.
If you offer pilot, WSO, WSOp and you have the merest hint of a language ability guess what you would be offered. It would not be pilot or WSO.
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: England
Posts: 270
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A great number of people goto OASC with the same trade choices as you. There is no bias from OASC but they will question you why you dont see a commission as everything. Have a robust answer ready!
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 887
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
...a 2.1 in BSc Oceanography...
I seem to remember being asked (back in '64) for my second choice and I said I didn't have one. I really didn't have one as I was so totally set on becoming a fighter pilot in the RAF. No other kind of flyer in no other kind of organisation. Maybe that came across to the interviewers. Or maybe they were desperate! Once in, though, I had to be prepared to be a bit more flexible, but I got what I wanted.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Somewhere flat
Age: 68
Posts: 5,565
Likes: 0
Received 45 Likes
on
30 Posts
Very many years ago, I went through Biggin Hill with a second choice of Navigator "just in case". I was selected as pilot but got myself chopped on the Hawk nearly 2 years later half way through the Valley course. In those days, METS was at Leeming, and there was a backlog in the multi-engine training system - the RAF was also short of Navigators. So, inspite of being recommended for Heavy Pilot from Stn Cdr down at Valley, I found myself with a letter inviting me to go to Finningley and train for a single wing - the excuse being that I'd volunteered for Nav before I'd joined.
So, beware of "second choices". I always wonder if I'd be flying in the front seat had I not played safe at Biggin.
So, beware of "second choices". I always wonder if I'd be flying in the front seat had I not played safe at Biggin.
Red On, Green On
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Between the woods and the water
Age: 24
Posts: 6,487
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
...a 2.1 in BSc Oceanography... It's the Navy for you, me hearty.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
seac,
Don't knock it
I remember getting advice from a nav at ISK on gardening. Naving was his second career. He was a qualified nursery man.
Or going into the staff crew room at Finningley at coffee break, "Anyone here a . . . ?"
It was almost like a POW camp (in more ways than one) where you could get an expert answer in just about anything. My question was about quantity surveying and sur eenough, there was one.
Don't knock it
I remember getting advice from a nav at ISK on gardening. Naving was his second career. He was a qualified nursery man.
Or going into the staff crew room at Finningley at coffee break, "Anyone here a . . . ?"
It was almost like a POW camp (in more ways than one) where you could get an expert answer in just about anything. My question was about quantity surveying and sur eenough, there was one.
But why would anyone in their right mind ask a half-wing half-brain anything? Except, perhaps, for the drift value?
Sitting around in crewrooms? Must have been a busy life at Robindoncasterfinningleyhoodie Intergalactic Chavport back then!
Sitting around in crewrooms? Must have been a busy life at Robindoncasterfinningleyhoodie Intergalactic Chavport back then!
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Scotland
Posts: 116
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
James, do what you want to do, OASC will give you a hand in deciding but read the magazines, papers etc to work out what you want to do in the Service. My kid bro is a Hercules guy and he did Oceanography at Southampton too, I also fly - try not to listen too closely to all the comments, some guys on here were last in the Service in the 1950's, so be careful, if you need a hand - PM me.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 734
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Door Slider
A great number of people goto OASC with the same trade choices as you. There is no bias from OASC but they will question you why you dont see a commission as everything. Have a robust answer ready!
As well as aptitude, they want someone who will [say they'll] also be looking forward to running the local youth club, someone who still refers to 'slacks', and has an explanation for what 'mess life' means. Getting in and getting on both require you to sell yourself to the devil to some degree, however once you've achieved the former, you can revert to be a normal person again, or head for the secondary duty/greasy pole.
By comparison, NCOs tend to compromise themselves less and can act like normal people most of the time - often doing brave things like actually saying what they're thinking! OASC will wonder why on earth you'd want to join as one of these people!
Last edited by dallas; 23rd Nov 2008 at 10:02.
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 137
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Most of the advice is (imho) sound.
Just be aware that joining as a WSOp isn't what it once was either. You will effectively have no say in what type of WSOp you could become.
Back when there was a choice of WSOp trades, I was asked questions about AEOp's. The conversation went something like this.....
Them: "What can you tell us about the AEOp role?"
Me: "Nothing. I haven't got a clue!"
Them: "But you put it down as your third choice! Surely you know something about it?"
Me: "Sorry, I haven't got a third choice!"
Them: "Oh!" (re-reads paperwork) "You are correct, you don't have a third choice, do you!"
RUMBLED
I had looked into the role, which was how I knew it wasn't for me, but I am convinced that if I'd answered the question, I would have been an AEOp.
Luckily I stuck to my guns and got LM as I wanted.
Just be aware that joining as a WSOp isn't what it once was either. You will effectively have no say in what type of WSOp you could become.
Back when there was a choice of WSOp trades, I was asked questions about AEOp's. The conversation went something like this.....
Them: "What can you tell us about the AEOp role?"
Me: "Nothing. I haven't got a clue!"
Them: "But you put it down as your third choice! Surely you know something about it?"
Me: "Sorry, I haven't got a third choice!"
Them: "Oh!" (re-reads paperwork) "You are correct, you don't have a third choice, do you!"
RUMBLED
I had looked into the role, which was how I knew it wasn't for me, but I am convinced that if I'd answered the question, I would have been an AEOp.
Luckily I stuck to my guns and got LM as I wanted.
Nothing much to add except, way back in the sixties at OASC:
Interviewer: "Will you accept nav training?"
Bas: "No, Sir"
Time passes . . . letter arrives offering pilot training
Reason I was so sure was that, as an ex MN marine engineer, I'd noticed that there were very few agreeable employments ashore for our navigating officers.
Interviewer: "Will you accept nav training?"
Bas: "No, Sir"
Time passes . . . letter arrives offering pilot training
Reason I was so sure was that, as an ex MN marine engineer, I'd noticed that there were very few agreeable employments ashore for our navigating officers.
