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RAF Leadership

Old 18th Sep 2008, 15:23
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RAF Leadership

Can someone please confirm or correct me with my observation that the RAF leadership tree looks like this?

Sec of State for Defence - Des Browne MP
-> Minister of State for Armed Forces - Bob Ainsworth MP
-->Chief of the Defence Staff - ACM Sir Jock Stirrup
--->Chief of the Air Staff - ACM Sir Glenn Torphy
---->C in C Air Command - ACM Sir Clive Loader
----->DCinC Ops - AM Iain McNoll
------>AOC 1Gp/AOC 2Gp/AOC 22Gp
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Old 18th Sep 2008, 16:33
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The RAF has Leadership?


Our battles are directed???
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Old 18th Sep 2008, 18:37
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The RAF leadership tree looks more like:
Station Commander
Wing Commanders
Squadron/Unit Commanders
Flight Commanders
SNCOs
NCOs
Above the top of this tree there merely extends a bureaucracy with management levels often misleadingly titled as Commanders, Commanders in Chief, etc
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Old 18th Sep 2008, 18:43
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"Our battles are directed??? "

Only if defending Typhoon numbers against the other services........

Isn't PUS/2nd PUS in that loop somewhere?
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Old 18th Sep 2008, 19:01
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Well there is a new word Leadership , something the military has yet to discover.

Just think of a triangle but place it upside down , too many saying we should do this and that but too little to actually do it .

Sooner this gets looked at then things can start to recover
 
Old 18th Sep 2008, 19:24
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The RAF leadership tree looks more like:
Station Commander
Wing Commanders
Squadron/Unit Commanders
Flight Commanders
SNCOs
NCOs
And the WOs?????????
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Old 18th Sep 2008, 20:02
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Surely WO's come under the same band as SNCO's??
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Old 18th Sep 2008, 20:06
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Oops.

I think you said that out loud.
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Old 18th Sep 2008, 20:16
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Surely WO's come under the same band as SNCO's??
Aaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggghhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!

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Old 18th Sep 2008, 20:32
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Wow! - I didn't know the "Peter Principle" went so far up the chain

Good luck to all who remain.
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Old 18th Sep 2008, 21:06
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Thanks for the answers so far, I guess my question is focused on the government to military chain of command?
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Old 18th Sep 2008, 21:08
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Oh sorry is a WO officer not the most senior of the Senior Non Comissioned Officers???

My appologies.... I'll wear my hat though... I like to keep it on!!
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Old 18th Sep 2008, 21:57
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Can someone please confirm or correct me with my observation that the RAF leadership tree looks like this?
It actually looks like this:

4* 3
3* 6
2* 25
1* 96
Gp Capt 310
Wg Cdr 1190
Sqn Ldr 2620
Flt Lt 4130
FO/PO 1180

(as at 1 Jul 08)

The only real question I have is, where do we manage to employ 96 Air Cdres?

Last edited by In Tor Wot; 19th Sep 2008 at 06:00.
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Old 18th Sep 2008, 22:04
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Or put another way

The RAF have more Flag Officers than aircraft?

Hmmmm
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Old 18th Sep 2008, 22:07
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Oh sorry is a WO officer not the most senior of the Senior Non Comissioned Officers???
A WO holds the Queens Warrant. The sign outside most Seniors Messes is also a clue, "Warrant Officers & Senior Non-Commissioned Officers Mess"
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Old 18th Sep 2008, 23:58
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And they are both incorrect. They should read:
'WO's & SNCO's Mess' - This method then makes recognition of Flight Sergeants and Chief Technicians as well as Sergeants.
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Old 19th Sep 2008, 00:56
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The only real question I have is, where do we manage to employ 96 Air Cdres?


Doing jobs what were once that of Wing Commanders and Group Captains. (Being official spies in other people's countries (AKA Air Attaches) and Commanding RAF Stations).

Is the not still the Air Force Board somewhere in the picture (for day to day policy matters at least).

Last edited by MAINJAFAD; 19th Sep 2008 at 17:26.
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Old 19th Sep 2008, 01:52
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We obviously need one Air Commodore per Typhoon!
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Old 19th Sep 2008, 06:07
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Pingdit

And they are both incorrect. They should read:
'WO's & SNCO's Mess' - This method then makes recognition of Flight Sergeants and Chief Technicians as well as Sergeants.
Close but not close enough, you might be right one day but not just yet. They should read:

WOs' and SNCOs' Mess
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Old 19th Sep 2008, 07:39
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Originally Posted by It's Not Working View Post
Pingdit



Close but not close enough, you might be right one day but not just yet. They should read:

WOs' and SNCOs' Mess
Pingdit is more correct.

The abbrevation of a plural is not shown so that Warrant Officer and Warrant Officers is WO and the possessive for either is thus WO's.

However I believe it would also be correct to say Warrant Officers's Mess.

However many pedants would avoid this by eloquent variation and say Mess or Messes for Warrant Officers.
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