Military life - motivation?
SFH
I admire your honesty about your concerns.
Flying both mil and civil involves getting on with people (sometimes who you would not rather be with) in a variety of circumstances.
There are similarities and differences in the 'way of life' of both careers.
In the military on ops (and the frequency of ops depends on the aircraft type) you are working hard as a team under trying circumstances and the buzz is immence. At home base the work load is variable but no matter what you do and where you go you are attached by an invisible bungey cord to base. How much you throw yourself in to sqn life and mess life can be up to you. However I never saw any point in being in the RAF without a social involvement (as it paid dividends when deployed).
In my airline I go away more often than I did in the military, but for shorter periods and come home when I should. We always go out, be it just for a quiet drink or more. Sometimes its 2 people, sometimes its 15 and I have had some cracking times. The flying is mostly routine and relaxed but you have to be able to get on with people. Most of the time I am flying with people I have never met before. I can leave the job behind when I leave Heathrow and have time to do what I want in my spare time. (although I prefer aerobatics to fishing).
Both jobs are about how you get on with people. You certainly have to be motivated to end up on the sqn or on line. However the military is a way of life shared with people who mostly have the same values and is a lot more fun.
I admire your honesty about your concerns.
Flying both mil and civil involves getting on with people (sometimes who you would not rather be with) in a variety of circumstances.
There are similarities and differences in the 'way of life' of both careers.
In the military on ops (and the frequency of ops depends on the aircraft type) you are working hard as a team under trying circumstances and the buzz is immence. At home base the work load is variable but no matter what you do and where you go you are attached by an invisible bungey cord to base. How much you throw yourself in to sqn life and mess life can be up to you. However I never saw any point in being in the RAF without a social involvement (as it paid dividends when deployed).
In my airline I go away more often than I did in the military, but for shorter periods and come home when I should. We always go out, be it just for a quiet drink or more. Sometimes its 2 people, sometimes its 15 and I have had some cracking times. The flying is mostly routine and relaxed but you have to be able to get on with people. Most of the time I am flying with people I have never met before. I can leave the job behind when I leave Heathrow and have time to do what I want in my spare time. (although I prefer aerobatics to fishing).
Both jobs are about how you get on with people. You certainly have to be motivated to end up on the sqn or on line. However the military is a way of life shared with people who mostly have the same values and is a lot more fun.
Speaking as someone who spent 17 years as a RAF pilot and since 7 years as an airline pilot, I would suggest that you are suited to neither from what I have read here. You may have the means to pay your course and self sponsored type rating, but I would suggest to you that the motivation and determination for that route is not too different from the military. And when you are in a position where you have three bars on your shoulder, you've paid off your training debts and your starting to feel satisfied that you have acheived your goal, how much freedom do you think you will have?
As a junior F/O in an airline, you will be based where the work is, you will work weekends, you will work late into the evenings, you will do nightstops, you will do temporary basings and you will have to sell up and move house when you change employers/base/get a command/get made redundant.
The generally acknowledged personality type who is best suited to be a pilot is the stable extrovert. I don't see much difference between my airline colleagues and my ex military mates. I get the impression you are not the type.
As a junior F/O in an airline, you will be based where the work is, you will work weekends, you will work late into the evenings, you will do nightstops, you will do temporary basings and you will have to sell up and move house when you change employers/base/get a command/get made redundant.
The generally acknowledged personality type who is best suited to be a pilot is the stable extrovert. I don't see much difference between my airline colleagues and my ex military mates. I get the impression you are not the type.
Last edited by Dan Winterland; 9th Sep 2008 at 10:14.
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Sparky:
That's cos you put up gay posts.
But on a serious note, you have come across as a bit of gimp and have posted a fecking silly qiestion ref your desire to join the RAF. So if you think that you have been hard done by then:
1. You probably have been - but man up and get over it.
2. You probably have been - but make up your own mind
3. You probably have been - and if it's a problem then go find a local council to work for and have a winge to their anti banter welfare officer. Or just have a nice cup of tea instead.
C130JB
I feel that I have been treated unfairly in some respects in regards to some of the insulting replies.
But on a serious note, you have come across as a bit of gimp and have posted a fecking silly qiestion ref your desire to join the RAF. So if you think that you have been hard done by then:
1. You probably have been - but man up and get over it.
2. You probably have been - but make up your own mind
3. You probably have been - and if it's a problem then go find a local council to work for and have a winge to their anti banter welfare officer. Or just have a nice cup of tea instead.
C130JB
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To pick up on Mr Ripley's post
In days gone by when the VC10 was part of the shiney fleet, and as near as dammit flying like a civilian airliner, some crew members used to commute long distances to work, fly, and return home. Ultimately this counted against them.
I knew one ex-VC10 Sqn Ldr (that's an in-joke BTW) who was posted after his two tours and demoted because he lived with his wife, near her work, some 150 miles away. I knew another who, I think, was denied a captaincy and left the fleet for the same reasons.
In the Services 'company-men' are at work or on immediate call 24/7. Besides their primary job, whatever it is, they will also be involved in organisation of sports or social events or other ancilliary duties, activities and duties that would not be found in commercial aviation. To be honest, quite a few folk see the job of IIC Wives' Club as a PITA but a necessary evil in the Service family.
People who just turn up for duty and disappear home, without the social element, are generally seen as not pulling their weight. This was quite clear during the TV series, was it Fighter Pilot?, where the Chief of Air Staff was apopolectic when the 'star' said it was 9-5.
How much you throw yourself in to sqn life and mess life can be up to you. However I never saw any point in being in the RAF without a social involvement (as it paid dividends when deployed).
I knew one ex-VC10 Sqn Ldr (that's an in-joke BTW) who was posted after his two tours and demoted because he lived with his wife, near her work, some 150 miles away. I knew another who, I think, was denied a captaincy and left the fleet for the same reasons.
In the Services 'company-men' are at work or on immediate call 24/7. Besides their primary job, whatever it is, they will also be involved in organisation of sports or social events or other ancilliary duties, activities and duties that would not be found in commercial aviation. To be honest, quite a few folk see the job of IIC Wives' Club as a PITA but a necessary evil in the Service family.
People who just turn up for duty and disappear home, without the social element, are generally seen as not pulling their weight. This was quite clear during the TV series, was it Fighter Pilot?, where the Chief of Air Staff was apopolectic when the 'star' said it was 9-5.
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Dan Winterland:
Thank you for the comparison between military and commercial life. This was actually on my mind for exactly the reasons you mentioned, however i think that for the worlds best job, i can accept that and adapt accordingly. I do not have the money to self fund myself, but i am working towards it on my own back. (not sure why someone thought i won the lottery).
C130Jbloke:
I'll go for the cup of tea i think.
Tourist:
She's dead.
Thank you for the comparison between military and commercial life. This was actually on my mind for exactly the reasons you mentioned, however i think that for the worlds best job, i can accept that and adapt accordingly. I do not have the money to self fund myself, but i am working towards it on my own back. (not sure why someone thought i won the lottery).
C130Jbloke:
I'll go for the cup of tea i think.
Tourist:
She's dead.
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I'll go for the cup of tea i think.
It's still a gay thread through. But with AIDOO just coming in, I'm sure we will get real fireworks soon.
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I was once an enthusiastic teenager, got an RAF Flying Scholarship at 17, went back to Biggin Hill teh following year and expected to be welcomed in and handed the keys to a Tonka....but wasn't.
I desperately wanted to fly for a living so decided (after narrowly missing British Airways ab initio selection in '87) to go for NCO aircrew, do a tour and then re-apply for Pilot.
I did Swinderby easily, struggled a bit with AAITC (pine poles, Bl**dy pine poles) but got through, and then settled into Loady ground school. At this point my immaturity started to get the better of me and I came across to some of my peers as an arrogant tw*t, made it very clear that I was only doing NCA as a route to pilot (I was somewhat politcially unaware...), and developed my social skills (able to wake-up in a Biffa Bin with someone else's bike)
Passed ground school and got streamed rotary and headed off to Shawbury, this is where I really p*ssed people off...the instructors were (in the main, ahem) a good bunch of very experienced guys at the pinnacle of their careers, what they didn't appreciate was a 19 year old PPL telling them that this was only a stepping stone to greater things. The Pilots didn't appreciate a mere trainee talking baggage thinking he was good enough to join their ranks.
My scores for every flight were average or higher, I scored the very first B+ for Nav, but 2 days before my FHT I was called in front of the Crewman Leader and told that even if I passed, I would not pass the course, my 'Personal Qualities' were not sufficiently developed for me to assimilate into a front-line Squadron, especially as I had been ear-marked for 72.
My confidence was shot, I scored the first ever E- on my test, it was awful. I was back-squadded and given the most evil little instructor they had, I had to start the course again and re-earn all my solo ratings. It was hell, of course in the end I was summoned to the Crewman Leader's office and he had his shiny silver axe lying on his desk....
I have been in the exciting world of IT for 19 years
, and have just re-gained my PPL after a 17 year gap, but it was my maturity and attitude in the squadron crewroom that did for my flying career, not my ability or capability in the air.
Oh yeah, I'm probably still a tw*t, but a more mature tw*t
I desperately wanted to fly for a living so decided (after narrowly missing British Airways ab initio selection in '87) to go for NCO aircrew, do a tour and then re-apply for Pilot.
I did Swinderby easily, struggled a bit with AAITC (pine poles, Bl**dy pine poles) but got through, and then settled into Loady ground school. At this point my immaturity started to get the better of me and I came across to some of my peers as an arrogant tw*t, made it very clear that I was only doing NCA as a route to pilot (I was somewhat politcially unaware...), and developed my social skills (able to wake-up in a Biffa Bin with someone else's bike)
Passed ground school and got streamed rotary and headed off to Shawbury, this is where I really p*ssed people off...the instructors were (in the main, ahem) a good bunch of very experienced guys at the pinnacle of their careers, what they didn't appreciate was a 19 year old PPL telling them that this was only a stepping stone to greater things. The Pilots didn't appreciate a mere trainee talking baggage thinking he was good enough to join their ranks.
My scores for every flight were average or higher, I scored the very first B+ for Nav, but 2 days before my FHT I was called in front of the Crewman Leader and told that even if I passed, I would not pass the course, my 'Personal Qualities' were not sufficiently developed for me to assimilate into a front-line Squadron, especially as I had been ear-marked for 72.
My confidence was shot, I scored the first ever E- on my test, it was awful. I was back-squadded and given the most evil little instructor they had, I had to start the course again and re-earn all my solo ratings. It was hell, of course in the end I was summoned to the Crewman Leader's office and he had his shiny silver axe lying on his desk....
I have been in the exciting world of IT for 19 years
, and have just re-gained my PPL after a 17 year gap, but it was my maturity and attitude in the squadron crewroom that did for my flying career, not my ability or capability in the air.Oh yeah, I'm probably still a tw*t, but a more mature tw*t