PVR = Half Flying Pay!!!!!!!
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: The real world
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""plastic" NCA Sgt???"
Not heard that for such a long time but you can almost hear the envy................twit
Envy! what envy? you don't know what I do for a living or my rank! never assume Seldom
Not heard that for such a long time but you can almost hear the envy................twit
Envy! what envy? you don't know what I do for a living or my rank! never assume Seldom
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Lancashire
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Originally Posted by Mr C
moosemaster - your post is just generally insulting to the incredibly resourceful, capable and vastly broad-skilled backbone of the ground Trades I have had the pleasure to work with. I take it you have never worked with Caterers, Suppliers, MTDs, Adminers etc.
I don't know whether you equate 'proving it' to being NCA over NCO. I also don't know whether you equate the incredibly tightly regulated world of aircraft operations to the far less rigid and creative world of ground Trades, but the latitude, breadth of thought and downright low cunning I've had the pleasure of witnessing over the years are beyond reproach. These people perform minor miracles on a daily basis until it becomes the accepted norm. You evidently have no concept of the breadth of knowledge and experience needed to be a good NCO.
Originally Posted by Moose
man-management and project management can be taught, easily. The ability to think outside the box cannot. Self motivation cannot be taught. Self discipline can be taught, but why bother when applicant A has already proved they have it.
You may have noticed the text BEFORE the part you quoted.
Originally Posted by ME
In the eyes of a normal employer...
You may also have missed the subsequent post.
Originally Posted by ME
Re-reading the post it sounds as if I am dissing groundcrew.
I am not.
Knowing both sides of the fence as I do, I reckon it should be possible for all service leavers to increase their earnings.
I was merely stating that it might easier for an aircrew mate to do so by changing direction, whereas a groundcrew mate may be able to increase earnings while remaining within the same field.
Nothing more, nothing less.
I am not.
Knowing both sides of the fence as I do, I reckon it should be possible for all service leavers to increase their earnings.
I was merely stating that it might easier for an aircrew mate to do so by changing direction, whereas a groundcrew mate may be able to increase earnings while remaining within the same field.
Nothing more, nothing less.
In reply to your last paragraph, I actually equate "proving it" to having been successfully employed within HM Forces, regardless of trade. I have worked with many ground trades over the years and found the majority to be extremely competent and resourceful. Traits which I'm certain employers look for and appreciate and the reason why I think every service leaver should be able to find decent employment in the civvy world. My statement about choosing someone who has "proved it" was referring to a service leaver over a civilian. It was not intended any other way.
It's not as much what I say, but how your mind interprets it, and you seem to have a few insecurites there my friend.
Originally Posted by Mr C
You evidently have no concept of the breadth of knowledge and experience needed to be a good NCO
Jayand, I think we may be on the same page here.
I fully agree that groundies will probably find it easier to get employment within their chosen fields, and that remaining within your personal RAF field may not prove viable in civvy street for you.
I would re-iterate that service life will have provided you with enough tools to allow you to change direction if you choose to do so.
Trust me, there are opportunities out there, if you can find them.
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Why oh why would I wanna be anywhere else?
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but pen-pushers have decided
This may come as a HUGE surprise to many - but it's your own branch that continues to f**k you over. It's all about reaching for that extra star you see (and at some point they were the fg off/flt lt/sqn ldr mate in the crew room).
Join Date: Jan 2008
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I always thought specialist pay was because you were a specialist and sometimes doing a potentially dangerous job- or more dangerous than sitting at your desk inputting into PPrune... but here is the reg!:
06.0103. SP is paid at Departmental discretion (with the endorsement of the Armed Forces’ Pay Review Body (AFPRB)) to specific groups within the Armed Forces to assist with specific recruitment or retention requirements. It is paid in addition to the military salary. In order to achieve cost-effectiveness and appropriate targeting, the following principles apply:
a. All forms of SP (including any Reserve Band payments) cease on promotion to OF7[1].
b. SP rates can both increase and decrease.
c. SP can be withdrawn when the requirement for the payment ceases to exist. Similarly, new forms of SP can be introduced subject to the requirements of the Services.
d. In the event of a requirement to decrease or withdraw SP, every attempt will be made to give 12 months notice to all affected recipients.
e. SP is subject to Income Tax and National Insurance, but is not pensionable.
f. Where there are different levels of SP dependent on rank, SP entitlement is determined by the paid rank:
(1) Where an individual is in receipt of Substitution Pay (SUPA) for a higher rank, they are to retain the SP applicable to their substantive rank.
(2) Where an individual holds acting paid rank they will be paid the SP applicable to that rank.
g. Where reckonable[2] service is counted towards progression along the respective SP scales, for RAF personnel recruited on or after 6 April 2005 it is to be counted from date of enlistment. For RAF personnel recruited prior to this date, reckonable service is from age 18 or date of enlistment, whichever the later. In the case of attendance-based Reserve personnel, an individual’s balance will be credited for actual days attended and, at the end of each Reserve Year, the individual’s SP record will be credited with the remaining number of days on which the individual was available for service and qualified for SP in that year.
h. Payment of SP and any Reserve Band SP will be suspended for periods when pay is not in issue (e.g. unpaid leave). Such time will not count towards progression to the next level of SP nor will it count against the clock as part of the Reserve Band countdown period.
i. To receive SP, entitled personnel must be assigned to a SP or SP-Related post (as defined at 06.0108 – 06.0110), and meet all the qualification criteria specified for each form of SP as covered in 06.0124 – 06.0129, further amplified where appropriate in the individual SP sections, except for the payment of CTB for which specific qualification requirements are detailed in the respective SP sections. To receive Reserve Band payments all criteria, less the occupation of an SP or SP-Related post, must be met.
j. Entitlement to SP will cease from the date an individual is declared professionally unsuitable for the specialist duties.
k. Entitlement to SP on a change of Branch or Trade is set out on Chapter 3 Section 10.
l. Entitlement to SP will reduce on approval of an application for Premature Release in accordance with 06.0116 and is affected when an individual is medically downgraded in accordance with 06.0121 – 06.0122.
[1] In some cases it ceases at an earlier rank – see subject sections for specific cessation details.
[2] i.e. total reckonable service, as opposed to qualifying service in a SP post.
Well I never...........
06.0103. SP is paid at Departmental discretion (with the endorsement of the Armed Forces’ Pay Review Body (AFPRB)) to specific groups within the Armed Forces to assist with specific recruitment or retention requirements. It is paid in addition to the military salary. In order to achieve cost-effectiveness and appropriate targeting, the following principles apply:
a. All forms of SP (including any Reserve Band payments) cease on promotion to OF7[1].
b. SP rates can both increase and decrease.
c. SP can be withdrawn when the requirement for the payment ceases to exist. Similarly, new forms of SP can be introduced subject to the requirements of the Services.
d. In the event of a requirement to decrease or withdraw SP, every attempt will be made to give 12 months notice to all affected recipients.
e. SP is subject to Income Tax and National Insurance, but is not pensionable.
f. Where there are different levels of SP dependent on rank, SP entitlement is determined by the paid rank:
(1) Where an individual is in receipt of Substitution Pay (SUPA) for a higher rank, they are to retain the SP applicable to their substantive rank.
(2) Where an individual holds acting paid rank they will be paid the SP applicable to that rank.
g. Where reckonable[2] service is counted towards progression along the respective SP scales, for RAF personnel recruited on or after 6 April 2005 it is to be counted from date of enlistment. For RAF personnel recruited prior to this date, reckonable service is from age 18 or date of enlistment, whichever the later. In the case of attendance-based Reserve personnel, an individual’s balance will be credited for actual days attended and, at the end of each Reserve Year, the individual’s SP record will be credited with the remaining number of days on which the individual was available for service and qualified for SP in that year.
h. Payment of SP and any Reserve Band SP will be suspended for periods when pay is not in issue (e.g. unpaid leave). Such time will not count towards progression to the next level of SP nor will it count against the clock as part of the Reserve Band countdown period.
i. To receive SP, entitled personnel must be assigned to a SP or SP-Related post (as defined at 06.0108 – 06.0110), and meet all the qualification criteria specified for each form of SP as covered in 06.0124 – 06.0129, further amplified where appropriate in the individual SP sections, except for the payment of CTB for which specific qualification requirements are detailed in the respective SP sections. To receive Reserve Band payments all criteria, less the occupation of an SP or SP-Related post, must be met.
j. Entitlement to SP will cease from the date an individual is declared professionally unsuitable for the specialist duties.
k. Entitlement to SP on a change of Branch or Trade is set out on Chapter 3 Section 10.
l. Entitlement to SP will reduce on approval of an application for Premature Release in accordance with 06.0116 and is affected when an individual is medically downgraded in accordance with 06.0121 – 06.0122.
[1] In some cases it ceases at an earlier rank – see subject sections for specific cessation details.
[2] i.e. total reckonable service, as opposed to qualifying service in a SP post.
Well I never...........
